RS4 Supercharger Argument

B6/7 S4/RS4
#641

When I went 12.75 @ 108.36 it was +300 I believe. April 6, 2012 at 3pm at Toronto motorsports Park.

When I went 12.82 @109.9 it was - 1050. There was a 12.6 in it that day if I had been smart enough to lower pressures. Car just spun like crazy all day. Here’s one of those runs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jwVIdAp3ZE

There are two other stock rs4s that went pretty much what I did. Jnaut went 12.84@107.9 and Richard jeans went 12.87@108

Apr went 12.43@ 110.38 and that is the rs5 record. I have seen like 5 other stock rs5 times. Magazines have it anywhere from 12.7-12.9.

Some dude at Englishtown 12.9 @ 107
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8fvrb9l6Sk

Some dude in Australia 12.7 @ 109 and 12.44 @ ??? (MPH is broken but 1/8 was same as the 109 run)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8fvrb9l6Sk

Car and Driver 12.8@111
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2013-audi-rs5audi-rs5-spec-chart.pdf

Car and Driver again (but not a track…this was pbox data from a road in Germany) 12.5@112
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2011-audi-rs5-vs-2010-bmw-m3-2011-cadillac-cts-v-2.pdf

Motor Trend 12.8 @ 108
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1009_2010_audi_rs_5_vs_2011_bmw_m3_vs_2011_cadillac_cts_v_comparison/specs.html

As I said I think dsg and that extra 35hp helps, but it’s not going to be 0.5 seconds if it’s a good drier in the rs4.

Edit: 3:43 pm. Da was +281 feet at 4pm.

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/414442169.jpg

#642

Richard Jeans had a full milltek on his run. Edit: I spoke to Richard and only mod on that run was Michelin Pliot Cup tires which don’t seem like much of a mod when you look at the 60’.

Jnaut was about .4 seconds slower than a stock RS5.

I don’t put much credit in magazine 1/4 mile times. Every magazine had the RS4 at 13.2 and B8 S4’s in the 13.4 range.

Also Richard Jeans car is lighter since it’s non US spec. About ~100lbs.

Also some other things to remember. The 20" wheels are def heavier than the RS4 wheels, that RS5 run at E-Town was +1000 DA and 75 degrees.

The other guy ran 12.44 and APR ran 12.4 which seems pretty fair as to what a stock RS5 is capable of.

#643

Tough question… The primal desire for power in me say get the biggest baddest blower immediately! But since I’ve owed the M3 I’ve gained an appreciation for the overall balance of the M3 package. Though I do feel more power could be fun, in certain areas, I worry that it may throw-off the overall balance that I’m beginning to really enjoy… I would image the same can be said for any RS model as we’ll…

#644

Agreed… I believe it’s the high compression engine that will be the limiting factor! You could do a full engine rebuild but it’s very prices especially compared to other platforms i.e GTR’s

#645

Audi RS4 = $35,000 for a good one (not a great one, not a beat one)
JHM Engine build with sleeved block = $15,000 (guestimate)
JHM stage 3 supercharger kit = $14,000
JHM Exhaust and Stage 5R clutch/Flywheel = $5,000

This will be good for approximately 700 WHP, and if they introduce a bigger supercharger, even more. They are already working on this, with teh V3 Si getting pushed to its limit on stage 3.

So $64,000 .

What’s going to touch that for $64,000? Is there a GTR in North America even for sale for that money? Never mind the $10,000 or so in mods you will need to catch a stage III RS4. And nevermind the fact that you’re driving a 2 door, somewhat ugly, impractical, rickety JDM car with probably 100,000 kms on it.

#646

You’ve totally lost me… I was saying the cost to build a NA S65 engine (M3) is about $15k where as building a GTR motor is about $7-8k (half the cost).

To your point you can get a GTR in the mid $50’s (US) + $7kish in bolt-ons will have the GTR in a position where it’ll out perform the hypothetical RS4 car in your scenario. It should have about 40-60k miles on it and it probably be an 09-10 model year. Ugly is subjective. Rickety probably…

An example of the GTR in my scenario:

http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/92399-soldsold%26-65281%3B2009-nissan-gt-r-black-premium-46k-miles-53k/

http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/90741-sold-2009-blk-gt-r-milwaukee-wi-45000-miles-57k-price-drop/

The package I’m referring to is SBD700 kit ($5k). I’d also include ported intake manifold for $1,200 (not included on the 10.5@130.5mph below)

http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/91847-new-pb-93-octane-oem-turbos-10525-13056mph/

This shows the SBD700 kit going 10.0@136mph (on E85 but is missing the ported intake manifold which should equal out)

http://speed-by-design.myshopify.com/collections/sbd-performance-packages

#647

How about exhaust? I doubt anyone who is going to spend almost 30k on a blower and built motor is gonna be on stock exhaust.

At 700whp will the transmission hold up? Might need a rebuild as well as stronger axles.

It’ll probably need motor mounts, diff mount and trans mount as well.

Suspension upgrade at this point is a must, as well as some type of brake upgrade. Basically you’re putting down 2.5x more power than stock.

#648

He included exhaust (exhaust + clutch for $5k).
Brakes and suspension is a personal choice but not mandatory for straight line power.
All mounts added up together don’t even equal $1k I believe.
As for axles and transmissions, can’t speak to that. I honestly wouldn’t know.

#649

Didn’t see the exhaust, my bad…

Brakes and suspension are mandatory when you’re pushing 700whp+

The trans and axles will not hold up to multiple 700whp+ AWD launches.

#650

Tell me why they’re mandatory. I would personally upgrade them myself, I even have for way less power but I don’t see them as being mandatory. And last I checked, the RS4 had 8 piston brakes stock. Maybe start a new thread :slight_smile:

As for the trans and axles, probably but untested.

#651

Watch the launch of the race gas APR RS4 and anyone with any drag racing experience can tell you that the car is in dier need of suspension…

The stock brakes sucks and if you plan to make 700whp I assume you want to drive your car hard, correct?

What do I know thought lol, what I’m trying to get through hear is that building a car is never that simple. It’s never as easy as listing three mods, ordering and installing. There’s always a million and one little things that add up and end up being a decent amount of extra cash…

Guarantee you that you won’t be able to drive a reliable 700whp RS4 for under 50k in mods, it won’t happen.

#652

Seems most of the super power cars I’ve seen are pretty soft suspension wise.

Besides the Apr car had stock cat back and suspension and went 10.6. I think it’s doing just fine. The suspension was not an issue.

#653

I thought you were saying ‘just buy a gtr’ as a financially better option than a motor build.

Those gtrs from America with mods are interesting. The first one is trapping what a stage 2 RS4 does, never mind stage 3. The second one is slower than what I think the built motor rs4 will do.

And they are gtrs .

What year are those by the way? Are they early models? I was under the impression that the gtr was a bit of a China doll in the early year(s). If you’re showing 2011+ gtrs with modest mod lists, shouldn’t you be starting at around $80,000 for the car? Won’t the early cars need a good bit more work to keep up?

The 10.5 car is a 2014
http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/89958-my-pearl-white-2014-nissan-gtr-black-edition/page__view__findpost__p__1248896

So that’s what… $125,000+mods?

The second car had drag slicks, a carbon fibre trunk, a spoiler delete and who knows what else.

So I think your reply to my off-topic reply is off-off-topic :smiley:

#654

The 10.6 run had no Catback and high flow cats.

Suspension IMO def held it back, it needs to be stiffer- it’s sloppy.

#655

lol that’s right they took the cat back off.

#656

The 09 issue was the LC. It dropped the clutch at like 5-6K to get that crazy 0-60 time. People were doing it all the time and that would lead to the broken transmission. Part of the way through production (in 09) they removed LC to fix the problem. They added it back in 2011 (I believe) but reduced the rpm and put safe guards in to prevent overheating etc.

As for 12-14 models the inlets and high boost was the only change. Both are included in the SBD700 kit package.

Here is another link to an 09 SBD700 running 10.8@134 on pump no other mods and without the P&P intake manifold:

http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/82312-108-on-pump134-trap/

If you notice his 60’ it’s terrible… Lot more left in that car ET wise…

Edit: What would really be nuts is if the SIR stage 1 turbo upgrade was still available. It was $2500 for the upgraded turbo’s and that would get you into the 9’s.

Before I bought the M I was seriously thinking GTR and I actually got a quote from SBD for a full built 1,000hp GTR (built engine and transmission with labour) $30k! Pretty crazy bang for your buck…

Edit2: I have to stop looking at the market section on GTR life it’s really beginning to get me depressed!

Here’s an 09 with basically the SBD700 kit for the low $50’s
http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/92163-2009-gt-r-premiumredsbd650-50xxx-miles-525k/

Spend another $11k and get a built engine and transmission good for 800wtq

http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/90869-proof-that-jacks-transmissions-drag-800-works/page__st__20

A few extra grand and you can get SIR stage 2 turbos and run deep into the 9’s

http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/91475-sir-913148mph/page__hl__%2Bsir+%2Bstage+%2B2__fromsearch__1

#657

[quote=“euroswagr,post:637,topic:3116”]
thats the ticket… I wouldnt just give up and say the motors can’t take it, too much compression. there is a component failure if a motor is having longevity issues. rings are a fairly common issue, an FI motor and an N/A motor are going to have very different ring designs/specifications from the factory. if its not an obvious failure like a rod that looks like a ? or a obliterated piston from pinging, I’d look at the rings next.

I’d personally skip the compression lowering gaskets, the FI motors seem to be particularly sensitive to the design of the combustion chamber to ensure proper mixing. I’d be concerned that moving the head up without modifying the combustion face of the piston could cause issues with mixing.

#658

Yeah, the RS4 should upgrade to Brembos if it gets a bunch of power.

Oh wait…

#659

That’s kind of what we’re talking about here. Around $30,000 in modifications.

My math was wrong above. $69,000 for a built RS4, stage 3, full exhaust and stage 5R clutch/pp/flywheel.

And it’s an RS4. You can drive it to work. You can take your kids to school. You can go out in a monster snow storm. You can do whatever you want, and your interior is luxurious and comfortable as hell. You won’t be embarrassed to drive it. You wont attract unwanted attention and have every ricer on the street trying to race you. You will just go about your business, and murder any car you come across. Pretty cool.

Frankly that’s the case with stage 2 as well. What car out there is nearly running in the 10s that you see on the street? I mean I know there are 10 second hondas and whatever else, but do you see them on the street, or do you see them in magazines and on trailers?

#660

Yeah, I was considering a GTR (i wanted it so bad when I first heard it’d make it to the US when I was finishing up college).

I still think about it and look at GTR Life (formerly NAGTROC).

While it’s less of a performance beast (though by no means a slouch), I’m happy with the RS5. Beautiful inside and out and packed with lots of tech.

That and I don’t need to recreate a wealth of knowledge outside the Audi scene (finding a good shop in the area, tuners, etc).