how about on the drag slicks? HE was trapping 130 without hitting the limiter before the line it seems. Would imply larger than 26.0 "
The TSW’s and Michelin PSS’s weighed in at 46lbs.
what size tires were you running on both sets?
Wheel size and specs & tire size please. Thanks.
at 46lbs, it was most likely 255/35/19 PSS and 19x9 TSWs, which is significantly lighter than the stock setup!
Looked at a photo. The Michelin was a 255/35/19.
how about on the drag slicks? HE was trapping 130 without hitting the limiter before the line it seems. Would imply larger than 26.0 "
OP summary updated
I wanted to start this thread to discuss the latest supercharger offerings for the RS4, and I named the thread as I did for a joke as these threads often turn into epic arguments. I don’t think this will, but you never know.
[b]Here are the fastest 1/4 mile elapsed times achieved by each of the offerings below (the ones who have run, at least). All cars on pump gas (94 or lower Ron+Mon/2)
JHM stage II (8 PSI) - 11.12 @ 125
APR stage III 14.4 PSI - 11.15 @ 123 (11.0 @ 129 on 100, and 10.6@130 on 104 stripped interior/exhaust,race slicks)
Aviva high pressure (15 PSI) - 11.36 @ 126
TTS (13 PSI) - 11.42 @ 125
Aviva low pressure (10 PSI) - 11.81 @ 118
APR TVSr1320 (8 PSI) - 11.83 @ 116
PES M90 (8 PSI) - 12.65 @ 110
VF M90 - DNR
MTM Lysholm - DNR[/b]
Here is a brief descripton of each kit offered
EDITED November 20 2013
MTM - uses a Lysolm supercharger, twin screw. The staggering price, and the relative dearth of information make purchasing an MTM kit for your Rs4 a daunting task…and one that few people have ever undertaken. Unfortunately this is like a ghost in the supercharged 4.2 world.
TUNE: MTM
COST: $50,000 (that’s not a misprint…it’s EUR priced at 39,000 EUR…however I’ve heard they’ll negotiate lol)
CLAIMED GAINS: +115 hp over stock (crank)
ACTUAL GAINS: 411 whp on this dyno (which is 90-100 whp over stock). It was done at MTM Canada so grain of salt etc. Sounds legit though. It should be noted that he also had full exhaust with that blower kit when he dyno’d http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTCinWGQKHA
1/4 MILE RESULTS: ??? MTM provided some 100-200 data etc. but it’s useless because they stripped 350 lbs out of the car to do so…and it wasn’t done at a dragstrip or anything so who knows how they tested themselves. Disappointing because the kit appeas well put together…would be great to get one of these cars out to the strip.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
PES - used the Eaton M90 derived Magnussen MP90 supercharger. This supercharger, in the words of the makers at Eaton/Magnussen via compressor maps and tech folks directly, is capable of only making about 460-475 hp MAX. How on earth PES and VF could claim 150 crank gains over the RS4’s 420 hp stock, I’ll never understand. I guess they thought their customers wouldn’t check into the math lol. This turned out to be a collossal failure and has pretty much been forgotten here (but is having a renaissance with European and British buyers who aren’t up to speed on PES’ antics.
TUNE: PES
COST: $12,000
CLAIMED GAINS: +120 hp over stock (crank) and +109 torque (crank)
ACTUAL GAINS: ??? looks like about +50 hp crank over stock, based on performance, and independant dynos
1/4 MILE RESULTS: Kryptonik ran 12.6 @ 110-111 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrzMB4N4PHs
[b]EDIT: PES has announced they’re working on a new kit for the S5 that uses the smallest Whipple blower…which is like being the smallest Blue Whale…it’s still gigantic, capable of well over 1000 CFM
EDIT Oct 2013 One of their test cars released a dyno showing 530 WHP 490 WTQ on a dynojet in Penssylvania at Fabspeed performance. He then deleted the dyno IMMEDIATELY. Very strange, but standard PES. No idea about performance of course. [/b]
http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/sakimano/11111111111untitled_zps9241c461.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________________________
VF Engineering - basically the Eaton M90 again…and a collossal failure again. This was GIAC tuned, and in their S4 kit, the GIAC tune was one of the weak points, so that doesn’t bode well for the RS4 kit. VF compensated 1FastS4 to promote the kit on the forums on his Ibis White RS4. This backfired drastically as he got into a habit of making excuses about not going to the dragstrip, and made up stories like claiming he beat a C6 Z06 in a highway pull lol. They never EVER got us any proof of performance. Lots of dyno and road course talk. Lots of good marketing (getting the kit on The Smoking Tire, magazines etc) but at the end of the day they hid from the forums once it became clear that it was a sham (relative to their claims). They have since pulled the kit off their web page.
TUNE: GIAC
COST: $13,000
CLAIMED GAINS: +125 whp
ACTUAL GAINS: ??? we never really saw anyone put it through its paces but we can assume PES like 50hp crank gains
1/4 MILE RESULTS: none…they never went (well they did…but they never shared the results). PES used the same blower, so not a bad proxy.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
APR - they used the TVS1320, a rather small but VERY effective twin vortices series Eaton supercharger. Audi uses this on just about every platform above the A4 as an engine option on a 3.0 V6. This indicates a more suitable size matchup for the blower, but it still workd well on the RS4 even if it leaves a bunch of upside on the table. When it was first launched, the kit suffered…APR didn’t go to the dragstrip (or again, they didn’t tell us the results if they did) and all around it was looking like VF/PES part 3, even though the blower looked like it should work well to add 100 or so hp to the car. Turned out it was the APR tune…they had trouble taking a 4.2 FSI and tuning for supercharging. A few customers hit the strip and ran mid-high 12s…not good when the RS4 runs 12.8-12.9 STOCK. JHM’s tuner wrote a file for a friend with the APR kit that transformed the car. It went from 12.6 @ 108 to 12.0 @ 116 with just the tune change. APR asked to see the file, and started using it, in exchange for just mentioning that JHM’s tune was used on the kit. APR complied (great deal lol) but somehow managed to fuck that up with ARin and Stephen from APR denying any outside involvement. They later relented when it was clear half the forums knew the real story, and APR was losing face.
TUNE: JHM file adopted by APR
COST: $19,000, then later dropped to $15,000, then to $13,000
CLAIMED GAINS: 120 whp
ACTUAL GAINS: exactly what was claimed
1/4 MILE RESULTS: Keith @ APR ran 11.8 @ 116 in a customer’s car, and the Michigan customer who JHM originally helped with the tune ran 11.8 @ 119 www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx0EBeRp54w
[b]EDIT: APR HAVE DISCONTINUED THE 1320 kit AND ARE UPDATING WITH THEIR TVS1740 BLOWER FROM THE RS5/R8 KIT FOR LATE FALL 2013
EDIT: Oct 2013 - APR have shared some information on development including a sneak preview of some dyno testing during tuning. 500 whp ecllipsed on pump gas. Release date anticipated towards the end of the fall
EDIT: Nov 2013 - APR took the car to the strip and run a bunch of great quarter mile times on various configurations.
Pump gas, full interior 11.15 @ 123
Race gas full interior 11.07 @ 129
Race gas, no interior, no catback, race slicks 10.60 @ 130[/b]
________________________________________________________________________________________________
TTS - This is a Rotrex C38-91 centrifugal supercharger, tuned by MRC Tuning in the UK. Not much is known about the kit, but they’re doing plenty of advertising etc. They definitely make great videos!
TUNE: MRC
COST: $21,000 USD (13,000 pounds sterling) $14,000 USD (9500 pounds sterling)
CLAIMED GAINS: 180 hp (crank) over a carbon cleaned stock RS4, on the MRC dyno
ACTUAL GAINS: ???
1/4 MILE RESULTS: none yet, although MRC is only 30 miles from Santa Pod, an IHRA dragstrip. Their first customer (DannyRS4) said he’s going to Santa Pod in a couple of weeks. edit: shitty weather and schedule problems + clutch problems + health problems meant this was cancelled (supposed to be 3 TTS cars, but it ended up being none)
EDIT - TTS went to the strip on Mar 10, 2012 and ran 11.7 @ 124.7 (discussed on page 6 of this thread)
EDIT #2- TTS went to the strip AGAIN and ran 11.42 @ 125.1 (FASTEST PUMP GAS B5/6/7/8 EVER!)
EDIT #3- TTS lowered the price to 9500 pounds sterling = $14,000 USD May 2013
________________________________________________________________________________________________
JHM - this is a Vortech V3 centrifugal supercharger, located behind the passenger foglight and in the space created by moving the passenger side aux. radiator. The supercharger has been proven to work nicely on the B6/7 S4 with two cars running 11.9 @ 116 already, however on the B6/7 S4 the biggest challenge was reining in the power the V3 is capable of. Data from Vortech indicates it should be able to make 750-800 hp at the crank (not a misprint) but the S4 internals can’t handle much more than about 500 at the crank. The RS4, with its forged internals can certainly exercise more of the V3’s upside thanks to its lightly built from the factory setup (forged rods and pistons) so this will be very interesting. The kit was recently fitted to Dan@JHM’s in house RS4…so we should start to hear news trickling out this spring.
TUNE: JHM
COST: 7950 for the lower boost/non cooled kit; $10,900 for the stage 2 intercooled bigger boost kit (8 PSI); stage 3 unknown
CLAIMED GAINS: unknown, but the rumour mill has it close to 175-200 whp over stock
ACTUAL GAINS: ??? no dynos yet
1/4 MILE RESULTS: 11.34 @ 122, 11.36 @ 126.7
[b]UPDATE: PRICING AND 1/4 MILE RESULTS ADDED MAY 2013
EDIT: October 2013 JHM went to the dragstrip another time back in the spring, and went a good bit quicker than their 11.34 RS4 record. How much quicker? They’re not saying yet. I guess when you’re the fastest, what motivation do you have to announce beating your own record. Reminds me of Sergei Bubka
EDIT: NOVEMBER 2013 - JHM posted their fastest time 11.12 @ 125 [/b]
________________________________________________________________________________________________
AVIVA-AMD - AMD appears to be working on a kit, but the details and seriousness of the project have remained very foggy. Apparently they’re using a TVS1900 supercharger, the same one on the Cadillac CTS-V in one version of the kit, and a TVS2300 the Corvette ZR1 supercharger in the other. AMD have been very tight lipped on this…rumour is they have fitted the unit to a donor car, but it is not moving yet.
EDIT: Update from Jon@AVIVA . Looks like 1900 in multiple boost and cooling configurations rather than the 1900+2300 as originally thoughtBased on a Eaton TVS R1900. Centrally mounted in the engine with twin custom Air-Water intercoolers. 5-Axis CNC AL machined plenum & runners. Made available in two performance levels. LP [Low pressure] & HP [High Pressure]. Designed and manufactured between both companies. New High flow fuel rails manage fuel around the new plenum.
TUNE: It will available with and without software. AMD and EPL have been working closely to offer a turn key file. Customers and tuners are welcome to use the hardware as a platform for their own custom tune. The calibration and hardware has been to the track ( road coarse ) for the 2nd weekend. COST: Initial release for Installation at AMD Washington or BBI in Socal has been around 10k. the LP system will not leave this price range. After preliminary testing where the big boost kit went 11.8@120 (disappointing is the only word for it) they changed the tuner to United Motorsports and dropped EPL altogether
COST: $11,000 for the low boost kit (9-10 PSI) and $14,500 for the higher boost kit (15 PSI) although this information has been pieced together…no official announcements from anyone at these companies
CLAIMED GAINS: Approximately 400-430 whp for the lower boost kit and 500 to 525 for the higher boost kit with upgraded fuelling and cooling
ACTUAL GAINS: ??? however based on 1/4 mile performance , they look to be delivering on claims
1/4 MILE RESULTS: low boost kit 11.8 @ 118 and high boost kit 11.36 @ 126.8 (fastest RS4 ever, and fastest B5/6/7/8 ever on pump gas…for about 2 weeks till JHM beat them)
*** it should be noted that the kit will by default come with an 8000 RPM redline, however users can opt for an 8500 RPM redline. This seems to put the risk of the decision in the hands of the buyer. A bit odd. The 1/4 mile results were set with the 8500 RPM redline…no word on 8000 RPM performance.
UPDATE: PRICING, DYNO AND 1/4 MILE RESULTS ADDED MAY 2013
OP summary updated
I wanted to start this thread to discuss the latest supercharger offerings for the RS4, and I named the thread as I did for a joke as these threads often turn into epic arguments. I don’t think this will, but you never know.
[b]Here are the fastest 1/4 mile elapsed times achieved by each of the offerings below (the ones who have run, at least). All cars on pump gas (94 or lower Ron+Mon/2)
JHM stage II (8 PSI) - 11.12 @ 125
APR stage III 14.4 PSI - 11.15 @ 123 (11.0 @ 129 on 100, and 10.6@130 on 104 stripped interior/exhaust,race slicks)
Aviva high pressure (15 PSI) - 11.36 @ 126
TTS (13 PSI) - 11.42 @ 125
Aviva low pressure (10 PSI) - 11.81 @ 118
APR TVSr1320 (8 PSI) - 11.83 @ 116
PES M90 (8 PSI) - 12.65 @ 110
VF M90 - DNR
MTM Lysholm - DNR[/b]
Here is a brief descripton of each kit offered
EDITED November 20 2013
MTM - uses a Lysolm supercharger, twin screw. The staggering price, and the relative dearth of information make purchasing an MTM kit for your Rs4 a daunting task…and one that few people have ever undertaken. Unfortunately this is like a ghost in the supercharged 4.2 world.
TUNE: MTM
COST: $50,000 (that’s not a misprint…it’s EUR priced at 39,000 EUR…however I’ve heard they’ll negotiate lol)
CLAIMED GAINS: +115 hp over stock (crank)
ACTUAL GAINS: 411 whp on this dyno (which is 90-100 whp over stock). It was done at MTM Canada so grain of salt etc. Sounds legit though. It should be noted that he also had full exhaust with that blower kit when he dyno’d http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTCinWGQKHA
1/4 MILE RESULTS: ??? MTM provided some 100-200 data etc. but it’s useless because they stripped 350 lbs out of the car to do so…and it wasn’t done at a dragstrip or anything so who knows how they tested themselves. Disappointing because the kit appeas well put together…would be great to get one of these cars out to the strip.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
PES - used the Eaton M90 derived Magnussen MP90 supercharger. This supercharger, in the words of the makers at Eaton/Magnussen via compressor maps and tech folks directly, is capable of only making about 460-475 hp MAX. How on earth PES and VF could claim 150 crank gains over the RS4’s 420 hp stock, I’ll never understand. I guess they thought their customers wouldn’t check into the math lol. This turned out to be a collossal failure and has pretty much been forgotten here (but is having a renaissance with European and British buyers who aren’t up to speed on PES’ antics.
TUNE: PES
COST: $12,000
CLAIMED GAINS: +120 hp over stock (crank) and +109 torque (crank)
ACTUAL GAINS: ??? looks like about +50 hp crank over stock, based on performance, and independant dynos
1/4 MILE RESULTS: Kryptonik ran 12.6 @ 110-111 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrzMB4N4PHs
[b]EDIT: PES has announced they’re working on a new kit for the S5 that uses the smallest Whipple blower…which is like being the smallest Blue Whale…it’s still gigantic, capable of well over 1000 CFM
EDIT Oct 2013 One of their test cars released a dyno showing 530 WHP 490 WTQ on a dynojet in Penssylvania at Fabspeed performance. He then deleted the dyno IMMEDIATELY. Very strange, but standard PES. No idea about performance of course. [/b]
http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/sakimano/11111111111untitled_zps9241c461.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________________________
VF Engineering - basically the Eaton M90 again…and a collossal failure again. This was GIAC tuned, and in their S4 kit, the GIAC tune was one of the weak points, so that doesn’t bode well for the RS4 kit. VF compensated 1FastS4 to promote the kit on the forums on his Ibis White RS4. This backfired drastically as he got into a habit of making excuses about not going to the dragstrip, and made up stories like claiming he beat a C6 Z06 in a highway pull lol. They never EVER got us any proof of performance. Lots of dyno and road course talk. Lots of good marketing (getting the kit on The Smoking Tire, magazines etc) but at the end of the day they hid from the forums once it became clear that it was a sham (relative to their claims). They have since pulled the kit off their web page.
TUNE: GIAC
COST: $13,000
CLAIMED GAINS: +125 whp
ACTUAL GAINS: ??? we never really saw anyone put it through its paces but we can assume PES like 50hp crank gains
1/4 MILE RESULTS: none…they never went (well they did…but they never shared the results). PES used the same blower, so not a bad proxy.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
APR - they used the TVS1320, a rather small but VERY effective twin vortices series Eaton supercharger. Audi uses this on just about every platform above the A4 as an engine option on a 3.0 V6. This indicates a more suitable size matchup for the blower, but it still workd well on the RS4 even if it leaves a bunch of upside on the table. When it was first launched, the kit suffered…APR didn’t go to the dragstrip (or again, they didn’t tell us the results if they did) and all around it was looking like VF/PES part 3, even though the blower looked like it should work well to add 100 or so hp to the car. Turned out it was the APR tune…they had trouble taking a 4.2 FSI and tuning for supercharging. A few customers hit the strip and ran mid-high 12s…not good when the RS4 runs 12.8-12.9 STOCK. JHM’s tuner wrote a file for a friend with the APR kit that transformed the car. It went from 12.6 @ 108 to 12.0 @ 116 with just the tune change. APR asked to see the file, and started using it, in exchange for just mentioning that JHM’s tune was used on the kit. APR complied (great deal lol) but somehow managed to fuck that up with ARin and Stephen from APR denying any outside involvement. They later relented when it was clear half the forums knew the real story, and APR was losing face.
TUNE: JHM file adopted by APR
COST: $19,000, then later dropped to $15,000, then to $13,000
CLAIMED GAINS: 120 whp
ACTUAL GAINS: exactly what was claimed
1/4 MILE RESULTS: Keith @ APR ran 11.8 @ 116 in a customer’s car, and the Michigan customer who JHM originally helped with the tune ran 11.8 @ 119 www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx0EBeRp54w
[b]EDIT: APR HAVE DISCONTINUED THE 1320 kit AND ARE UPDATING WITH THEIR TVS1740 BLOWER FROM THE RS5/R8 KIT FOR LATE FALL 2013
EDIT: Oct 2013 - APR have shared some information on development including a sneak preview of some dyno testing during tuning. 500 whp ecllipsed on pump gas. Release date anticipated towards the end of the fall
EDIT: Nov 2013 - APR took the car to the strip and run a bunch of great quarter mile times on various configurations.
Pump gas, full interior 11.15 @ 123
Race gas full interior 11.07 @ 129
Race gas, no interior, no catback, race slicks 10.60 @ 130[/b]
________________________________________________________________________________________________
TTS - This is a Rotrex C38-91 centrifugal supercharger, tuned by MRC Tuning in the UK. Not much is known about the kit, but they’re doing plenty of advertising etc. They definitely make great videos!
TUNE: MRC
COST: $21,000 USD (13,000 pounds sterling) $14,000 USD (9500 pounds sterling)
CLAIMED GAINS: 180 hp (crank) over a carbon cleaned stock RS4, on the MRC dyno
ACTUAL GAINS: ???
1/4 MILE RESULTS: none yet, although MRC is only 30 miles from Santa Pod, an IHRA dragstrip. Their first customer (DannyRS4) said he’s going to Santa Pod in a couple of weeks. edit: shitty weather and schedule problems + clutch problems + health problems meant this was cancelled (supposed to be 3 TTS cars, but it ended up being none)
EDIT - TTS went to the strip on Mar 10, 2012 and ran 11.7 @ 124.7 (discussed on page 6 of this thread)
EDIT #2- TTS went to the strip AGAIN and ran 11.42 @ 125.1 (FASTEST PUMP GAS B5/6/7/8 EVER!)
EDIT #3- TTS lowered the price to 9500 pounds sterling = $14,000 USD May 2013
________________________________________________________________________________________________
JHM - this is a Vortech V3 centrifugal supercharger, located behind the passenger foglight and in the space created by moving the passenger side aux. radiator. The supercharger has been proven to work nicely on the B6/7 S4 with two cars running 11.9 @ 116 already, however on the B6/7 S4 the biggest challenge was reining in the power the V3 is capable of. Data from Vortech indicates it should be able to make 750-800 hp at the crank (not a misprint) but the S4 internals can’t handle much more than about 500 at the crank. The RS4, with its forged internals can certainly exercise more of the V3’s upside thanks to its lightly built from the factory setup (forged rods and pistons) so this will be very interesting. The kit was recently fitted to Dan@JHM’s in house RS4…so we should start to hear news trickling out this spring.
TUNE: JHM
COST: 7950 for the lower boost/non cooled kit; $10,900 for the stage 2 intercooled bigger boost kit (8 PSI); stage 3 unknown
CLAIMED GAINS: unknown, but the rumour mill has it close to 175-200 whp over stock
ACTUAL GAINS: ??? no dynos yet
1/4 MILE RESULTS: 11.34 @ 122, 11.36 @ 126.7
[b]UPDATE: PRICING AND 1/4 MILE RESULTS ADDED MAY 2013
EDIT: October 2013 JHM went to the dragstrip another time back in the spring, and went a good bit quicker than their 11.34 RS4 record. How much quicker? They’re not saying yet. I guess when you’re the fastest, what motivation do you have to announce beating your own record. Reminds me of Sergei Bubka
EDIT: NOVEMBER 2013 - JHM posted their fastest time 11.12 @ 125 [/b]
________________________________________________________________________________________________
AVIVA-AMD - AMD appears to be working on a kit, but the details and seriousness of the project have remained very foggy. Apparently they’re using a TVS1900 supercharger, the same one on the Cadillac CTS-V in one version of the kit, and a TVS2300 the Corvette ZR1 supercharger in the other. AMD have been very tight lipped on this…rumour is they have fitted the unit to a donor car, but it is not moving yet.
EDIT: Update from Jon@AVIVA . Looks like 1900 in multiple boost and cooling configurations rather than the 1900+2300 as originally thoughtBased on a Eaton TVS R1900. Centrally mounted in the engine with twin custom Air-Water intercoolers. 5-Axis CNC AL machined plenum & runners. Made available in two performance levels. LP [Low pressure] & HP [High Pressure]. Designed and manufactured between both companies. New High flow fuel rails manage fuel around the new plenum.
TUNE: It will available with and without software. AMD and EPL have been working closely to offer a turn key file. Customers and tuners are welcome to use the hardware as a platform for their own custom tune. The calibration and hardware has been to the track ( road coarse ) for the 2nd weekend. COST: Initial release for Installation at AMD Washington or BBI in Socal has been around 10k. the LP system will not leave this price range. After preliminary testing where the big boost kit went 11.8@120 (disappointing is the only word for it) they changed the tuner to United Motorsports and dropped EPL altogether
COST: $11,000 for the low boost kit (9-10 PSI) and $14,500 for the higher boost kit (15 PSI) although this information has been pieced together…no official announcements from anyone at these companies
CLAIMED GAINS: Approximately 400-430 whp for the lower boost kit and 500 to 525 for the higher boost kit with upgraded fuelling and cooling
ACTUAL GAINS: ??? however based on 1/4 mile performance , they look to be delivering on claims
1/4 MILE RESULTS: low boost kit 11.8 @ 118 and high boost kit 11.36 @ 126.8 (fastest RS4 ever, and fastest B5/6/7/8 ever on pump gas…for about 2 weeks till JHM beat them)
*** it should be noted that the kit will by default come with an 8000 RPM redline, however users can opt for an 8500 RPM redline. This seems to put the risk of the decision in the hands of the buyer. A bit odd. The 1/4 mile results were set with the 8500 RPM redline…no word on 8000 RPM performance.
UPDATE: PRICING, DYNO AND 1/4 MILE RESULTS ADDED MAY 2013
Hopefully the S5 comes within a few tenths of these times ;D
What do you think the RS5 will do with the JHM cf or APR 1740 setup? 10.8 on pump?
That’s what I’ve been wondering. Lots of RS4 talk lately (understandably), but no discussion of the supercharged RS5, where DSG would seem to be the difference-maker.
RS5 should do well. Don’t forget the 1740 is getting maxed out here on this setup, unless APR releases another pulley. So at this level of CFM they’re making X level of power.
Although the stock RS5 with DSG trap a little better than a stock B7 RS4 and run better ET, it’s not dramatic. 2-3 tenths and 2 MPH from what we’ve seen…and that advantage is also due to another 300 RPMs and another 30-40 hp, not just DSG. DSG is good for 1-1.5 tenths here vs a well driven car. That’s eliminated on a supercharged car where you max out a supercharger. Both cars have same displacement and same 1740 at presumably same boost/pulley. So the delta on stock cars isn’t going to transfer to the modified ones if they’re both maxing out a supercharger. Again, the RS4 is at a 30-40 hp disadvantage to the RS5 stock for stock…and when they’re both running the 1740, that disappears.
A great driving powershifting manual will get within a tenth or so of the DSG. If you watched the APR RS4 video, they left pretty much nothing on the table with respect to launching and shifting. So I imagine if APR goes 11.1-11.2 on the RS4, the RS5 will go around 11 flat at the same MPH.
The S5 will be again similar to the RS4, maybe a hair slower than the RS4.
That’s what I think.
JHM hasn’t really shown much if we’re comparing apples to apples.
They went 11.1 @ 125 and also trapped 126…on stock fuelling. Ask any tuner what happens when you’re running out of fuel at high rpms…and if they think they will get more out of the car on improved fuel delivery. It’s a pretty big deal. The tune they wrote for the stage 2 car has them closing things down towards higher RPMs and holding the car back.
What I want to see are as follows
-
JHM stage 2 (8 PSI intercooled) RS4 with improved fuelling on pump gas and full interior/exhaust
-
JHM stage 2 (8 PSI intercooled) RS4 with improved fuelling on RACE gas and full interior/exhaust
The race gas times just to see what’s what. We hear lots of crying from people who bitch that not recognizing the APR race gas time is mean. Reality is we’re just comparing all the kits in the setup they all have run…and that is pump gas, full interior.
So for the people who want to stroke APR’s cock all day and call us all haters, fine. So, here’s what JHM does on race gas. They won’t even write a race gas tune is the best part. They’ll just run 100+ octane on the 93 tune. But if those APR times get obliterated, I hope everyone shuts the fuck up about race gas and we can focus on street setups.
The other thing I’d like to see is what JHM could do with more boost. Say 10 or 11 PSI. This would be to shut the retards up who think their 11.12 @ 125 was run with more than 8 PSI. You want to see what happens with more boost? OK here you go.
From talking to JHM though, they seem reeeeeally hesitant to push these cars past 8 PSI. Thinking they know something the other guys don’t. Only JHM owns an RS4 right? And only JHM has torn the motor down on a couple of RS4s after 10,000-20,000 miles of boost, right?
Isn’t the 4.2V8 in the RS5 a little different than the RS4? I think I remember reading about some updates/refinements made for the final generation of that engine, though I have no idea if this would ultimately have any impact with the supercharger.
In any event, anyone claiming that AR members are APR-haters is clearly off their rocker. This forum has arguably been the MOST hospitable to APR. Arin has what, a +30 karma rating? And APR’s threads on here always get a ton of views/posts, etc. And this forum has also served as an alternative for APR when they run into trouble with Blake/Audizoo (see, e.g., the cornedoutapb/10secs4 saga). All we do here is discuss facts. Some people will never get that.
I thought it was funny when I was accused of only caring about pump gas vs. race gas recently. It was said I did so because JHM ran a great pump gas time on their RS4 and APR ran both. I think all of you B8 guys have seen the race gas vs. pump gas debates where I’ve questioned the meritts of race times over the last few years lol. Ahh well, the site is doing well and people just want to be angry at it. What can you do. This site isn’t about making friends with the entire audi world. It’s about an open place to discuss cars without moderation or advertising influencing content.
As for the 2 different 4.2 FSI High Revving engines, yes, the new one is pretty much all new. Although it has bad manifolds whereas the RS4 had some nice TriY headers stock. Basically though we’re not likely to see a huge difference engine to engine. As for what they can handle, the RS4 has handled 550-600 WHP and WTQ and I’m sure the RS5 isn’t going to push more, so even if its internals are stout that won’t change. The other problems from boost most of the companies don’t seem worried about so that won’t likely be much different on the RS5 kits either.
So we will see.
As ESS uses the same S/C as the jhm unit they as well max boost at 8psi.
http://www.esstuning.com/products/E9x-M3-VT2%2d650-Intercooled-Supercharger-System.html
I wonder if it’s more of an issue with high compression motors that limits the safe PSI range to 8? I know stage 3 M3 run into the 700+hp and 11+psi with a built motors.
Bear - are you going to slap that S/C on your M3?
It definitely isn’t because of the blower, it will be a while before that gets maxed out.
Just think though, these high revving V8s already have crazy high compression and people are stuffing even more air into them. In the end, they were never designed for boost. Most FI motors have certain features when it comes to pistons, rings, etc so it’s interesting to see how long they will hold up. Usually people are worried about rod strength…but I think that should be later on down the line when it comes to potential problem ares.
I really do think the biggest issue that goes ignored is indeed the fact that these motors do have a 12.5:1 compression ratio. From what I’ve seen, M3’s start to have engine issues with power above 550whp and it’s not rod strength or pistons it’s just the fact the compression ratio is too damn high for boost.
Even 8psi is decently high, 15psi to me just sounds bizarre- I personally would never run that type of boost on a high compression motor…
Has anyone thought about running a compression dropping head gasket?
As for the RS5 v. RS4 here’s what my opinion is…
The RS5 has dual intakes, I would think that this would help when supercharged v. the RS4 but time will tell.
Also we only have one stock RS5 time right? So were basically comparing the ONLY RS5 time stock to the fastest RS4 time ever stock.
Saki you ran in negative DA correct? IIRC I believe APR ran their 12.4 in +900 DA.
I’d say the difference between a properly driven RS4 and RS5 in the same conditions will prob be between .4-.5 seconds.
Now with the blower I don’t think the difference between the two will be .5 seconds but I def think the RS5 will be around ~.3 seconds quicker than the RS5.
That’s just my hypothesis, I could be totally wrong but we’ll see…
Exciting stuff for sure
I suck at the quarter mile but I will make it a point to go to the strip in spring. Kinda hard living in the Pacific North Wet. Road courses are on for sure.
You don’t have to be good with the RS5 
Launch control, ESP/ASR off, full throttle and keep the steering wheel straight. Lol!