Totally unabsurd. The members police the forum. That’s how we roll.
the first line of your first post maybe?
"Ultimately turbos will always be better than turbochargers in most measurable ways. "
Using words like ‘always’ and ‘ultimately’ are pretty tough to back up in substantiating an argument. Clinging to ‘most’ won’t do it.
no, you won’t get downvoted for disagreeing. I’m the best example of that…I’d be negative a million if everytime someone disagreed with me they gave me a negative mark. I’m pretty opinionated in case you haven’t noticed.
you can present your argument and substantiate it and if that contradicts someone else, you may end up in a debate. But that’s it for the most part. If you act like an idiot, trash talk people, trash talk the site, make shit up, act obtuse deliberately to avoid reality, you will see -rating points hit you. It’s pretty straightforward.
Damn…same message here
[quote]An Error Has Occurred!
Sorry, you can’t repeat a karma action without waiting 24 hours.
[/quote]
Stuff like this just continues to prove my point. And while my point is that JC posts his opinions as facts and still lacks the basic understanding of a compressor map. If one of them was so much better then the other why would you use them both.
Exactly. This is just the start of his issues. Trying to back out of it now. It all could have been stopped in the first few posts.
In the end here you can’t have a conversation with someone that keeps posting thoughts as facts. Here is more of it. One line contradicts the other.
In one statement you say you can put the one compressor on the other. But then mention you can’t do that because one has higher speeds as a requirement. It’s more of your I think or your opinions.
You said in every measurable way. And that they are both compressors. And use similar compressors
Ok then the compressor map I posted can make 100% more CFM then your turbo at 50% less wheel speed and all this can be done at a higher map efficiency. Right there you just got an explanation on how 1 measurable aspect of a supercharger is better. Sure there is more parts to the equation like. That’s why you agree
[quote] Compressor efficiency is a moot point, anyway. Even if I would accept the hypothetical reality that a compressor from a supercharger can be a few percent more efficient thermally
[/quote]
remember your quote
[quote] "Ultimately turbos will always be better than turbochargers in most measurable ways. "
[/quote]
I know your rules of thumb and opinions drive your posting your thoughts as facts and that you hope to get out of this argument as your point keeps getting destroyed.
The turbo is more efficient but it’s not efficient because it will be insanely laggy.
Saying that a turbo can multiplication more then Superchargers and in your own world of rule of thumb superchargers can only more or less only double the hp…hmm… That’s odd tell that to the guys who are using the supercharger that uses the compressor map I posted that made 300 hp stock and are now making over 1200 hp… now my math might be off but that’s 4 X the hp stock. And no lag
And maybe for the last time as JC seems to be on a plunge member rating wise.
To be clear I have wanted to have been saying that JC is wrong when he used his opinion as facts as they never stand. And that in the world of turbos and superchargers they each offer great results… to use a blanket statement to say over all one is better then the other is not only false but completely absent of the understanding of each. And again while the compressor maps don’t tell the entire story they do tell one that says there’s not room to say anything in a blanket statement
lol that twin-charged system looks familiar… ;D
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...k/IMG_9688.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...k/IMG_7298.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...k/IMG_6281.jpg
I’m here for the negbang…I mean conversation with westwest
Links are dead for me?
That actually sounds like standard troll business to hang out in a forum they have no immediate connection to
http://forums.780tuners.com/printthread.php?t=107129&pp=40 Weird they only seem to work from the original page.
Maybe I need to end each post with “please applaud if you liked this” like on YouTube. Otherwise one jaded person with no life can tank your account in 30 days. Conjecture and experimentation are not welcome in a monoculture. The politicization of the un-board is real.
I had better get with the program and devote my life to beating a stock mustang in the 1/4 mile or my days here are numbered.
But once again, it isn’t one person that doesn’t like your posts…it’s probably 20!
It’s comments like your last one that are just fucking stupid. You went to the strip, you fucking sucked at driving end of story. You don’t like to shift fast while on a track…that is your choice
This whole act of “poor west” is annoying, so just stop the BS.
Not sure what I did but I am at 3 and I know I pissed a bunch of people off. I have discovered that people usually only mad if you say something really stupid, make false claims or try to lead people in the wrong direction. Back up your arguments with facts bring proof not conjecture be honest and treat people good then I think you will be fine look I made it to 3 I was -2 at one time I think. and listen of dozens people have spent thousands of dollars on products and these guys say they are bullshit take there word for it. What? you think they want your car to remain slow? they genuinely want you spend you money wisely. I didn’t get that at first I got slapped up side the head then realized they are doing all they can to help me. if I don’t want to listen I am not a productive member and need to go. Its kinda like survivor if you cant coexist or help out you get voted off the island.
^^ Lol nice Survivor reference. Love that show.
I largely agree with your post. Another way to quickly sink into negative territory is by bashing the site or its members. West has done that many times now.
[quote=“justincredible,post:73,topic:7207”]
This coming from the person who keeps ignoring/refusing my offer to debate this in a forum of experts.
I can quote a dozen things you’ve said here to show that you don’t understand mass, volume, efficiency, or how to tell them from a compressor map.
But what is the point if the people here generally can’t tell the difference?
I’m not going to sit here and be ridiculed (in a fairly impolite fashion I might add) by someone who doesn’t even remember his physics class.
Either we go somewhere with a suitably educated audience or you can continue to wallow in your own ignorance. If you do not accept then I can only assume you’re not as certain of your facts as you are projecting.
[quote=“JCviggen,post:85,topic:7207”]
lol at trying to move a discussion to another forum. That’s never going to work.
The reality of the situation is you made a blanket statement that justin pointed out was not very defensible. His original concern was your blanket statement that turbochargers are better than superchargers. You used words like ‘ultimately’ and ‘always’…which as I mentioned paint you into a corner in a written or verbal argument.
Ignoring his concern with this statement, you then chose to ridicule his grammar and spelling. English is his second language. As someone who deoesn’t speak or write Russian very well, but is living in Moscow, I think you’d understand his situation. Let’s see you debate the internal combustion engine in Russian on a forum. I can’t wait.
On my way to work I was thinking about how much I dislike turbochargers. One thing Justin said was that it takes 2 turbochargers to do the work of one supercharger. In my understanding of what he said, he was referring to the ability to make big power, but also to deliver a very solid powerband. You then scoffed at this and said that it is exhaust manifold/headers driven necessitating the need for two. Reality is that this is incorrect. We have seen a number of very succesful single turbo V layout projects. However they tend to struggle generating low end torque in the powerband at low RPMs RPM. Optimally, two turbos of moderate size will deliver this. Or one smaller and one larger turbo. However rarely do we see a single turbo V6 or V8 that is able to match the powerband of a well sized supercharger.
Anyway, that’s my take.
just as you refuse to believe acceleration results from dozens of members on the forums, and instead think your car is ‘normal’ and what to expect, while the others are all unrealistic, you are doing the same here. You think I spend enough time to negative rep you more than once a blue moon when you act like an idiot?
As I said, there are likely dozens of people who given you negative rating points, and you can contact the site admin to confirm that. It’s not ‘1 person’. Hell 7 people have chimed in on giving you negative rating points in this thread alone.
Ever think the reason you stand alone on these issues…is you?
[quote=“JCviggen,post:85,topic:7207”]
I’m with you JC. I just don’t have enough time in my day to spend hours writing posts to show where Justin is wrong. He doesn’t understand the difference between volumetric efficiency and isentropic efficiency. He doesn’t understand that radial compressors don’t have a volumetric efficiency. He doesn’t understand that centrifugal superchargers and turbochargers use essentially identical compressor wheels and they are built to run at different speeds. Hey Justin…did you know that turbocharging is a form of supercharging? A turbocharger is a centrifugal compressor (same as a Vortech) with a turbine attached to a common shaft. He doesn’t understand that pulling two random compressor maps off Google images is not a good way to compare superchargers to turbochargers. He doesn’t understand that you’re saying turbochargers are more efficient due to the fact that it has a turbine which is recovering otherwise wasted energy. It takes a lot of power to run a compressor and the power to supply the compressor comes from different sources.
The term ‘blanket statement’ is thrown around all the time. Just so I don’t make any ‘blanket statements’ I’m not claiming a supercharger is always better than a turbocharger. They are application specific and both have their positive and negatives. I do agree with JC that a turbocharger, under almost all operating conditions, is more efficient than a supercharger.
Go ahead Justin. Please continue rambling on about topics you are completely unfamiliar with. I’m actually amazed that no one else here has chimed in and told Justin off. I do think guys like Euro and Saki are assholes and don’t agree with all of their posts but they seem to have their facts straight. Don’t either of you guys see through the BS?