Time slip enclosed, want 11's.

B8 S4
#1


http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww105/coyote1243/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-01/853D5410-B464-4E59-9982-6F8FF4C60A7F.jpg

I can’t seem to PM Primetime, so I am posting here. I am at 12.2, and believe I could get a high 11 soon. I have a 2010 DSG, revo 1+ (tune & pulley), JHM lightweight crank pulley (not OD), AWE coldfront, JHM lightweight rotors, OZ rims. I mash & go as it is an early B8 S4. I am leaning towards the overdrive crank pulley next as my car seems to pull hard up top, but not on the bottom. Any advice is welcome, especially from Primetime as he is very knowledgable in this area. I recently trapped at just over 115 with a 12.2. I have run 30/28 psi and am wondering if I should go lower. Thanks all!

I run at PBIR here in sunny Florida! Rick

#2

The first thing I would do is add an intake if you don’t have one (ECS, Roc-Euro, CTS), and try the race gas map as that should be an option with Revo. I thought I read in Mike’s thread you were running 93. Race gas should allow for a lot more timing if it’s optimized correctly.

Improving your 60’ time would go a long way towards helping you get there. Your tire pressures seem OK, but a lot of that will depend on track conditions. I’d keep paracticing your launch technique. Smash and go works great for Ron, but seems to be hit or miss for most people. Practice will make it better as there is definitely a certain technique to it. A good DSG tune will help, but they seem to be hit or miss in terms of helping 60’ times. I don’t know enough about Revo’s to say it will.

In conjunction with the other suggestions, I would log your car to make sure every thing is in order. Check your IAT’s, misfires, timing, knock, etc. The Revo tune should have high timing, and show little to no knock if things are even close to OK. If you don’t have a VCDS to log with, I’m sure Mike or someone local will help you out.

The oversized crank pulley won’t do you much good if you don’t have a tune to support it. You’ll just end up bypassing most of the extra boost. Revo’s specified pressure is close to stage 2 levels, so you won’t get much with their current tune. You could ask them if it’s something they are willing to work on, but as of a few weeks ago they had never heard of it.

I know this probably isn’t what you want to here, but I don’t think any Revo car is in the 11’s. It may mean going with a tune that has proven to get there. It seems like it works pretty good on 93, but I haven’t seen any race gas results that indicate it’s capable of top times. If all else fails, this may be something to consider. Especially if you want to go with the oversized pulley, and they are not going to support it.

#3
#4

The USP intake should be fine. Sorry, I must have missed that.

Can you send me or post a link to your logs? I can give you a pretty good idea on how much headroom you have for the pulley. The pulley will help for sure, but if you bypass most of it, it won’t matter. The Revo logs I have show actual pressure pretty close to specified almost the entire time. Meaning any increase anywhere is mostly going to be bypassed.

The Revo tune is a little different than the others as far as why it bypasses boost. It’s usually doing that because it is not typically using knock correction to pull back timing. They are bypassing a little instead. They gave a long (somewhat logical) explanation as to why they do it that way, but I don’t completely agree that it’s the best way. I think the other tuners have more than proven that you can mostly leave the factory safe guards alone and let it pull some timing back, and still get good results.

Your 60’ times are around 1.8 seconds. With the lightweight rotors and wheels, there is something holding you back there. With a good launch and the LW parts, you should be in the 1.7 second range at a minimum. That should get a little better time at the end of the track.

#5

Try your best to shallow stage, every bit counts. Search around to see how primetime launches his car. That will net you the best 60 especially on a prefacelift IMO. It’s not as simple as mash and go… There is a little technique to it like Jran mentioned

Race map will help too with proper gas. Run your tank ~29 miles past “DTE 0” then fill up race gas. Drive another 30 miles and switch to the race map. I like to switch to the race map once more in the staging lanes so it adapts on my first pass… Prob unnecessary but I do it anyways

Skywagon might have been the first to crack 11’s on REVO’s race map and barely at that. They even brought his car onto their dyno to get it dialed in. IIRC, 11.9 was his best pass and his car was full bolt on, meth, basically everything you can do to these cars… There are a couple REVO tuned guys on AZ that have been trying very hard to crack 11’s and haven’t… I think REVO’s tune just isn’t as fast as APR or GIAC at this point.

#6

I forgot Skywagon got into 11’s. Not sure how you forget that… Just don’t cut a hole in your hood.

#7

Hi Rick,
As requested, here are your logs…

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2qLNaD2PEmkTlhvdUZQRXNaUGc/view?usp=sharing

They look good with the exception of bleeding a bit of boost. I dont think our times are that bad considering 93 octane and we are trying to run our cars like they are run everyday on the streets.

Here is my log from the same day if it helps you any…

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2qLNaD2PEmkcjB4a3g1YlJITTg/view?usp=sharing

Here is my timeslip from JAN 13, the same day as Ricks as well in case that helps. I think he has a very healthy 93 octane trap but something is slowing him down (shifting) despite his car being able to shift at 6800rpm and mine at 6400rpm. Is the 1st gen DSG just not as good at shifting?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v714/bhvrdr/20160113_214719_zps2wjdiktq.jpg

Take care Rick. See you at the track again soon.

Mike

#8

I also don’t think Revo will get you 11’s. It’s tuned for an OEM plus range. It’s going to bypass boost every time to keep your block cool so you can run it for hours on a road course. It’s not a 1/4 mile darling.

#9

Rick, Jran and mrmomo summed it up pretty well… Like I said in the drag thread the times are pretty good and so is the mph, but given it’s PBIR and the DA they should probably be better.

Based on the slips you’ve posted your 60ft time needs work more than anything, you’re easily leaving a tenth+ of et there. Do you have any vids or gopros? How are you staging? How does the car launch? Spin/wheel hop? Short shifts? You need to get the 60 down to go 11.x!

Lets get tire pressure settings out of the way… They really need to be based on conditions and given your location I’d guess you can go higher than most as it doesn’t get cold in florida for the most part, the day you ran is shows 63 degrees and you ran after sun down so the surface was probably fairly cool I’d have gone 40-36 to start and made adjustments from there… I’m assuming your tires are in decent condition? This shouldn’t be your issue…

From a technique standpoint here is what I do… Creep to the line and have the car as straight and in line of the path you want to take… After you trigger the first yellow stop… left foot brake and barely let off to just creep forward and the instant you trigger the 2nd yellow stop! The shallower the better… Keep the brake firmly depressed and have your right foot on the gas just slightly pressing to take the slack out, on the 2nd to last yellow briskly side step and dump the brake while slamming the gas. Timing it perfectly results in a hard launch with little to no spin.

Really not a ton else to it, but again the launch and 60’s are critical and that’s an area you need to improve.

The OD drive pulley will help either way but more so if the tune doesn’t bypass the boost? Given what I’ve seen from the revised Revo tune they actually dump more boost as a safety vs knock control safety’s like APR/GIAC and the logs Mike posted show that so I’d say you will get some down low and mid range increase but up top not so much…

Go a few more times and keep practicing your launch… Again, some gopros would help us see what is going on…

Mike, Yeah APR has stressed with me many times the 2010 cars have the weakest tranny… I don’t totally disagree as they’re much more knowledgeable than me but I’ve been able to get mine to launch fairly well as you’re aware and the real issue for me is shift hangups… At any rate Rick and I are probably at a slight disadvantage and LC will never be better on our cars than launching off idle.

westwest, lol!

#10

Thanks for all the info, all good stuff. I know my 60’ is not the best, but I have been doing exactly what you posted Primetime. I have had this car for 3 years, so I know it well. But I will try to launch even better. I am going back this Wednesday night if it does not rain. One thing at PBIR is, they make the water box so wide, it is hard to drive around it. I think the OD crank pulley will be my next step in the near future. I will see if I can post up a video of my launch. Thanks again to all. Rick

#11

I sent Jeff @ Revo my logs from a couple runs in 78 degree weather recently. Here is his reply about my Revo 1+ tune.

Rick,

Ah, my apologies, I had a log open from a dealer seconds before opening the one you attached and it was the wrong screen. We are very very familiar with VCDS; that’s not the case.

The bleed off is normal, it is hitting requested boost and pulling back a little; we request .92 and you are hitting 1 in higher RPM. Timing is fine and starting to pull slightly as it should and temps are still creeping up. If it was warmer out or other elevation this car would be struggling to make boost like most do. This happens to be strong - good.

Regards,

Jeff Funkhouser
General Sales Manager, Americas
Revo Technik | Eurojet

#12

Good luck with your quest Hawk, I tried for 2 years to get my revo car in the 11’s and the best I ever got was 12.005. I posted some other topics about the nightmare with revo Dsg tune. But for some reason the older cars just don’t respond to the tune as well as giac or even apr. by the end I had almost ever mod possible. Ran on 104 for 3 days before my last best run and just no luck.
Other cars just love the revo tune. I have seen a 11.88with stage 1+, dsg tune, race gas, and intake. In my last few track sessions with him he was on pump and I was on race with race map and I was dead even with him.
Your numbers seem very close to what I was running with similar mods.

#13

Thanks! I have seen your time and you are/were so close! I wish you had of made it. I agree that the early cars have weaker clutches and this may affect our time. I am going to PBIR tomorrow night as it is cold down here right now, 55 or so. This may be my final try as my car is perfect and I am happy with the way it drives. I could continue but may mess the car up, so I may stay stage 1+. I will post my slips tomorrow night! Rick

#14

It will be interesting to see how the car does. The eairly cars respond well to the GIAC and APR tunes but as your seeing REVO seems to have dialed it back a ton from the eairly tunes. Do you know the last time REVO had an update to their standard stage 1 tune.

#15

FWIW - I emailed Jeff in May '15 after APR released V2 asking if Revo had any updates in the works. That’s apparently handled in the UK - he stated there was no V2 pending as of then. As for the age of the current version I’m not certain but am guessing its 2+years.

#16

Didn’t they “custom” tune skypilots car? Maybe they rolled some of those changes in? Don’t see much from them on vendorzine these days…

#17

I don’t remember what they did exactly, and I’m not sure he does either. I had my car tuned @ their HQ in Summit Point about the same time he was going through all that and I don’t recall any changes resulting from their experience with his car. They have been very quiet, last I saw was about a year end sale or something but little if anything else.

#18

i think you’ll dip into the 11’s if you head to PBIR tomorrow…the DA should be right near zero.

I can’t wait myself to go to Bradenton Motorsports on Thursday, the DA should also be right near zero. Maybe I can dip into those 11.5x ;D

#19

I’ll copy my response from the other site below:

He basically responded with what I would have expected. He’s saying the specified pressure is setup for average conditions, and because you are at a lower altitude in good conditions, you are going to bypass for that reason. In those conditions, they are limiting you to about 2100 hPa specified pressure (about 30.4 psi). Depending on ambient pressure, that means you are limited to something around 16 psi of boost.

The counterpoint to that is Mike’s Uni tune in the same conditions didn’t bypass, and he had basically the same timing. His Unitronic tune maxed out at 2223 hPa (32.2 psi). My APR tune doesn’t either, and I was hitting the same 21 degrees timing last week on the dyno. I topped out at 2300 hPa (33.3 psi). The GIAC logs I have in similar conditions has similar timing, and top out at a crazy 2600 hPa which isn’t even achievable with a 2.5 bar MAP sensor… I literally have logs from every other tuner that look nearly identical to yours minus the bypass.

I definitely agree that the amount of boost you are making is strong and good. But, I’ll stick to what I originally said, and say that I don’t see why it really needs to bypass there. The small amount of timing pull is not an issue at that point. There is nothing wrong with tuning it that way. I am sure they do feel it’s safer to limit pressure when running slightly more aggressive timing, but limiting you to 2100 hPa of pressure is going to limit you from the best possible times at the drag strip. It pretty much explains why you won’t see a record time from Revo. Your car is fast, but it’s also leaving a little meat on the bone if you really want to run the fastest time possible.

#20

I did not make it to PBIR last night due to working late, and the track was crazy from what I heard. Oil on the track and a cobra spun out and hit a wall. Mike ran an 11.8 though, which is great. I will try again soon, hopefully it stays cool down here. I did walk an SRT8 on the I-95 though, he got off at the next exit. Lol. I cars are pretty darn stout, especially when it is cold out.