We took the APR Development RS5 to the drag strip this weekend to test out the acceleration differences between the Stock ECU and our APR Stage I ECU Upgrade. Standard 93 octane pump fuel was used and no other modifications were made to the vehicle. Below are the details and the results showing the APR Stage 1 ECU Upgrade improves 60 food times, trap speeds and elapsed times.
Arin, very nice! Car moves out well both stock and tuned… Wonder how it will do with catback and intake? That and a little better DA and it will be in the 11’s… Congrats and thanks for sharing… Now you need to get your S4 to the strip and get it into the 11’s ;D
I planned to take the S4 this weekend, but I wasn’t sure when I’d have a chance to go again so I took the RS5 for baseline RS5 data before the charger.
I’d like to take the S4 down with Ian Baas behind the wheel.
“the 4.2 cars don’t respond to mods because they aren’t FI”
“the RS4/RS5 is fail because it is not FI”
“the RS4/RS5 is already maxed out from the factory”
“these cars aren’t made for the dragstrip”
“the 3.0t dynos xxx more better so the 4.2 is fail”
“stage 1 3.0T will kill the RS5”
So much for that. That time by Arin is faster than any B8 S4 on pump gas other than 81 bear who did so in about 1000 feet less da…and the RS5 had almost nothing done to it while the S4 has about $8,000 in mods.
11 second RS4/RS5 times are not far away…on pump…with barely any mods.
It looks like the DA drops quite a bit in the evening. We originally planned to head out there on Friday night but Colby and I opted to take our ladies out to dinner instead and planned the trip for Sunday. I’m sure a drop in DA would help.
The tires were stock (I can check the brand if anyone cares), and I didn’t play around with pressure. I’m sure someone could lend a trick to adjust the pressure for potentially better times. The intake and exhaust were also stock. If upgrading those proves positive gains, it will be interesting to see if the RS5 can hit the 11 on pump fuel.
I’m sure many don’t like the DSG, but it’s a great pair on this engine. It give it just that edge it may need over comparable 6MT vehicles, especially if you’re not the best driver.
I know many of you are not fans of race fuel, so I ran on the local 93 that was in the tank when I picked it up. That also afforded me the ability to see what the car does stock vs chipped, which was the whole point anyways. However, 100 should lend a little more improvement. If we have more drivers than just colby and me, it would be nice to take it back down on a tank of the good stuff.
Next time, I’ll remove the lightbulbs from the trunk and the V1. Probably good for another .0001
Still interesting. I would say you’re leaving a lot on the table as is, provided we have all the information.
you ran 4 times in like 40 minutes (correction…4 times in 17 minutes). From the looks of it it was dead. You could have made a few more passes, perhaps after some cooling down time in between.
you appear to have run the car on the way there on the APR 93 file…then run 2x on APR 93 as soon as you arrived, then switched to stock for baseline passes, yes? I would submit that you left a bunch on the table by running it hot. It’s about 65 miles from APR headquarters to MMP. That’s certainly enough to get some good heatsoak going and impair your times a little once you stop and go through tech, etc. This is a 4.2 FSI remember…they don’t like the heat Did you log it? Must have been pulling 2-5 degrees of timing. This would be when you might see decent delta with the race file.
the DA was around 900 feet, which is about 1700 feet worse than what the group of us ran in last week at Toronto Motorsports Park. For perspective, I am gaining about 1-2 full MPH in the cold temps, as was the other RS4 who was with me (compared to say a month or two back when we ran in similar DA to what you did)
I wouldn’t hesitate to suggest that you have probably got a good 2 tenths and 2 MPH in it still. That would be really interesting to see, once the RS5 owners in colder areas of the continent start to hit the strip.
All in all, THANK YOU for getting some baseline and tuned data. You guys are starting to set a great example to the mainstream Audi world that dyno info is great, but hey let’s also see what the car can actually do. When half of your competitors frankly don’t know what they’re doing, the burden of performance proof will show us all who knows what. I know I am a consummate ball-breaker to tuning companies, but when we see companies stepping up to the plate, you will always get my support and respect…and I think that goes for most of this website’s 600 or so membvers
p.s. your description says you ran on November 12th at 3PM. That’s in the future. Not that anyone here cares, but just so you know for the other sites where you’re advertising the info.
Your track, like my track, seems to have the date screwed up all the time. No idea why, but it’s off by a day. Same was true when you guys ran the supercharged RS4 11.83 last year. Or was it two years ago? TIME’S FLYING!
Just for fun, the corrected time is 12.159 at 113.072 Very impressive! Car just may run 11’s as it sits… I for one, am curious how race gas would do…
How are the exhaust manifolds on these cars? Are they similar to the RS4? Also, does it have the huge cats like the B8S4? I assume you guys are developing CAI’s and a catback? This post has been bad for me… I want one of these more and more…
We really need to build a drag strip behind APR to help rule out heat soak variables, but then no one would believe the times so I guess it would only be beneficial to us.
Colby and I were the only ones to head down, so he brought his Stage III Golf R we’re using for some development. It was mainly for fun, but if they results were favorable, then, heck I’d have something to overwhelm me on Monday morning, lol. I was mostly concerned with his car since the RS5 is a DSG and was so consistent back to back. Basically, we got there and ran the Golf R several times before hitting the track with the RS5. I didn’t check the engine to feel how hot it was, but I did later pop the hood, pulled the engine cover and had trouble putting it back on because it was so hot to the touch.
In the future, I’d like the calibration engineers responsible for each vehicle to come along for logging and such. ECU-X logs would be far more beneficial than vag-com, especially if we happen to see something we don’t like, as we’ll then be able to trace it back through the laundry list of items not even remotely visible with vag-com. I was hoping to get one to come along, but he’s out of town till tomorrow.
That’s one of the disadvantages we have down here when shooting for good times. During most of the year, it’s hot and it’s humid during the day.
Thanks!
My only real problem with the drag strip is often the time involved getting there and back. It’s almost always a weekend event, and half the year I’d bet it’s too hot and humid (plus I’m typically at one of our grand-am events or car shows on a weekend). In an ideal situation, APR will have a close by closed circuit we can use for p-box, or possibly even timing light testing. Idealy, it will be a logging area used by the engineers but would also be beneficial for marketing data. It simply will be up to the end user to believe or not believe the times at that point I suppose.
So, speaking of acceleration data and such. What’s your take on drag slicks and deflating tires and such? Much like 100 octane, these are not normal ‘every day driver’ mods so to speak. I assume if both stock and modified were the same, then it’s not a big deal, but when testing on different days, different setups, different mods, getting the right tires / PSI should have some effect on the times, right? What’s your take on that? To keep results consistent, should people run at a specific PSI? What about tires? Only use street tires? Just a thought that popped into my head on my way back to the office.
Yeah, you would think after a couple years they would fix it. lol.
I did a little poking around on the net to see what magazines were getting and IIRC their stock times were pretty different. Motortrend said 12.8 at 108.2. Maybe they couldn’t get launch control to work. Sometimes it’s a bitch and I think it’s mainly due to steering wheel alignment tolerances. The DSG on that car is pretty awesome, but that’s one item I’d loosen up in the software.
As for the exhaust, I should be able to get some more details on that when we test the RSC system. Not sure when that will happen, but hopefully soon. It should sound pretty mean.
Given the limited launch RPM even with LC and the AWD it’s doubtful a drag radial/street slick would help much if at all… Stick shift car and controlled RPM launches are a different story… Do you feel wheel spin coming out of the hole? What psi did you run with? I have found it best to run as much pressure as possible while not spinning… So the colder it gets the less psi I run which helps the car hook but hurts on the top end… In conditions like you had(and not knowing track prep) I would have went with 40-42 up front and 36-38 out back… spin=go lower… good hook= go higher… The lighter the tire the better… The conti DWS’s that I run are about as light as I could find…
Were still waiting for you guys to tune the DSG’s… Talk about being able to capture the market… You would sell hundreds within days I bet… Make it happen already! lol
[quote=Arin@APR]So, speaking of acceleration data and such. What’s your take on drag slicks and deflating tires and such? Much like 100 octane, these are not normal ‘every day driver’ mods so to speak. I assume if both stock and modified were the same, then it’s not a big deal, but when testing on different days, different setups, different mods, getting the right tires / PSI should have some effect on the times, right? What’s your take on that? To keep results consistent, should people run at a specific PSI? What about tires? Only use street tires? Just a thought that popped into my head on my way back to the office.
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I agree with you. Drag radials to me are kinda useless. Like the old story, if you’re going to rip your car away from a stop light, are you going to pull over and change your tires to do it? No? Then it’s kind of an irrelevant benchmark, isn’t it. Lowering tire pressure doesn’t bug me as much, but for what it’s worth, I have NEVER adjusted tire pressure in pursuit of better times. Just doesn’t seem like something that matters to me (what I can do on 20 PSI). I may be weird. While I like to hit the strip for fun, for my times to ‘count’ I want them to be realistic to what my car is all about. That means Michelin PSS tires at normal PSI to me.
if you listen to the video you can hear the tires spinning a bit.
Still 1.74 60 foot time means it’s not having much of a problem. It’s making not a ton of torque (317 or whatever peak, and about 300 at launch RPMs, so it’s doing well for a 3900 lb car (Have any of us actually weighed one of these things?).
zcd, yeah I think 5200 or so… However, every LC video I have seen for the RS5 and any other Audi for that matter doesn’t truly launch at the set RPM… There is a bit of a delay, the rpm’s dip slightly and than it goes… I truly think the TCU is slipping the clutches or doing something as it doesn’t hit hard like it would if you were dumping a manual clutch… Tough to describe but go back and watch a few of them and you’ll see what I am saying… Granted I haven’t driven one so I could be wrong…
Saki, At work so I can’t watch the video but if the car was spinning I’ll bet that could be fixed with a little lower psi or better track prep, probably don’t need DR’s… 1.7x 60’s are very nice for an essentially stock car with just a tune… Little practice, shallow stage, and better prep, better conditions you may see 1.6x 60’s… Boom there would be the 11 second pass…
JHM programs launch control (JHM LAUNCH ASSIST) right into their ECU on manual cars.
To engage it, you mat the gas pedal, and RPMs hold at 5500 RPM. This is to create a threshold that is high enough that you won’t accidentally hit it…you have to be really trying to rev a car to 5500 RPM.
Once it’s there, you release the cluthc in an swift instant, and then the program takes over. You don’t launch from 5500 RPM. You launch from around 3500 or so RPM. It modultaes throttle and a bunch of things to get you going without spinning the tires all to hell. It’s pretty awesome in fact (video below).
I assume it is similar on the B8 cars. B8 S4 launch control is likely from around 2000-2500 or so. RS5 is likely from around 3500 (maybe even less).
Saki, I’ll take a look when I get home but I think I have seen it before… definely a neat setup… I wonder how the RS5 would be launching by just mashing the gas? I think I have proven that more effective than the LC on the B8 S4… Maybe if Arin goes back he can make a few non-LC passes just to see…
Sad how there are only a few replies on Arin’s AZ thread… Guess the other RS5 owners don’t care much about how the car performs…
lol the early days of the RS4 were not full of performance guys either, so don’t despair. It takes time. If you posted a quarter mile timeslip for an RS4 back in the day, you would get bombarded with the usual ‘these cars aren’t made for the dragstrip’ and all of the usual b.s.
It’s an elitist dickhead thing…thinking you’re ‘above’ the dragstrip. Everyone who thinks that way, if they went, would LOVE IT. It’s like a car show…with the ability to stretch your car with no speed limit. I love going just to see the other cars. Last time there were tons of interesting cars even though it was freezing cold and pretty much empty.
As for launch control vs. regular, Arin can easily test that for us using PBOX
Arin, put an SD (not SDHC) card in the PBOX, do 3 launches using Launch control, and three launches using the ‘mash it’ technique. Then you can have a look at the launches by comparing 60 foot times on the PBOX data software. I’ll happily do it and make a comparison graph if you email me the .pbn file.
Great stuff APR! This sort of post is really appreciated and I’m excited to see what you can do with this beast of a car. Does this tune transfer over easily to the B8 RS4 (Avant)? More out of curiosity for the European guys. The TTS guy peruses here I believe.
I’m not sure if you saw my post in the other thread, but do you have more info on the Golf R? Or am I being casually ignored due to top secret early beta testing?!? he he
As for the hot and humid conditions in 'Bama, at least no one can ever accuse you of inflated claims and you would be in the ideal position of many of your customers beating your times Just like 2000S4 did to JHM!
Seeing what the car does in full street trim on fuel available at the local gas station is really important IMHO. The JHM s/c time with the baby seat is the epitome of this. Drag radials belong on stripped out race cars with roll cages. Also being a GTI owner, I see the 1/4 mile list on Vortex and skip all the ones with DR’s.
Having said that, I love that 81bear, PT, jspazz have all pushed the limit on pump gas and then taken it to the next level on race fuel. It’s fun to watch 4 door Audi saloons/sedans running 11 sec times and quite exhilarating watching the guys trying to do it.
Just like 2000S4 did to JHM!