agreed!!! to further a cause that has no merit in this case.
Yeah someone told me that. I missed it. Very interesting development.
And then you have this:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/
20 years for shooting a gun into the ceiling to scare off her abusive husband. Now her kids are going to be raised by their abusive father and no one to keep an eye on him.
This world is fucked.
First, she should have called the police when she had the opportunity. She left the house to get her gun, not to call the police. She came back into the home and “fired a warning shot” with her children present, possibly endangering their lives. Nothing provided in the article states that the children were in any sort of imminent danger at that time.
Second, while I completely agree that a battered spouse has a right to protect herself when in fear for her life or those of her children, there was nothing in the article to suggest that she was. She went in the garage, got a gun, and then came back inside and recklessly fired at least one shot. Additionally, it was disputed whether she actually fired in the air or aimed in the direction of the husband and/or children. Mandatory minimum sentence for such behavior is 20 years in that state.
Chris Rock on gun control
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuX-nFmL0II
for those who havent seen it already
I can tell you’ve been a battered wife.
The legal system doesn’t rely on emotions; it relies on the law. A jury convicted her of those charges based on the law.
I totally have sympathy for her. I actually took a graduate-level domestic violence course in my undergrad and it completely opened my eyes to the complicated nature of abusive relationships. This isn’t to say that I know everything about the subject because I obviously don’t. I am just trying to show that I’m not some chauvinist who refuses to acknowledge the subject. I understand how mentally destructive the abuse is in addition to the obvious physical pain. If her allegations are true, it’s a really sad outcome.
Still, however, the story provides that she had an opportunity to escape, call the police, yell for a neighbor, etc. I know she may have been in a completely shattered state of emotions but that still doesn’t justify her discharging a firearm when she was not facing imminent harm.
How do you know she wasn’t facing imminent harm? A single hit from a man can kill a woman and that can happen in one second flat. This man was supposedly a known abuser so the precedent was there. On a side note/slight tangent, a cop just shot and killed a teenager in my city when the teenager was inside a public transport vehicle while the cop was outside and the teen only had a knife. The cop wasn’t in imminent harm (it’s not like the teen charged the cop with his knife) but he still shot the teen 9 times and finally killed him (there were 10 cops, all pretty much simply standing around doing nothing, it almost felt like an execution watching the video). Yet he’s only suspended with pay at the moment and based on the historical trend, the cop probably won’t get charged.
My point being, if you truly believe justice is blind, you’re extremely naive. In many cases, the justice system doesn’t behave the same way depending on who the person is.
In any case, these mandatory sentences are fucked up. Schumacher in Florida convicted of a DUI manslaughter gets 4 years and this woman, who didn’t kill anyone and probably feared for her life gets 20. Yeah, great judicial system at work there. And now her kids are going to be raised by an abusive father? Worked out great.
She listened to Joe Biden’s advice…he should be responsible for his false and illegal advice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj1GaX_-E-E
Our Bill of rights has been in place for well over 200 years, the prevalence of guns has been here for awhile. It’s a part of our culture and something many Americans feel very compassionate about, myself included clearly. There are other countries that can accommodate your needs, just because you have an irrational fear of guns doesn’t mean I have to give mine up or have my freedoms restricted more than what they already are so that you can attain a false sense of security. You can be disarmed and vulnerable, that’s fine I’m not pressing you or trying to force you to get a firearm. But when you want to attack and dismantle other people’s rights then I take offense to that.
In the way of the law, I firmly believe that citizen’s should not have the duty to retreat. If they are indeed forced to retreat like they are here in many states then the government is only allowing our citizens to be victimized. That isn’t right at all. If someone breaks into your home, they clearly have an evil intention. I just don’t understand the sympathy you seem to hold with perpetrators. Someone breaks into another person’s home, gets shot and killed is their own fault. I’ve had 3 guys break in/ attempt to break into my home on 2 separate occasions. Lucky for them my side business involves the use of K-9s in apprehension, narcotics, and long distance tracking so they were met with less lethal force. Unfortunately they are probably out by now. Why in the world some people believe that I should be sympathetic for them and their actions is beyond me… Lesson learned here should be don’t go burglarizing other people and if you do prepare to meet severe consequences. Jail is just a school for criminals. They go in, come back out and do it all over again. There is no deterrence in that system.
In another post you go on to explain that a single blow from a male can kill another person in a split second…so then how would you not understand that a person(s) breaking and entering could do that to yourself wouldn’t be considered an armed subject? You said it yourself that a person armed with fists is considered lethal force…
To your first point, I can understand wanting to defend yourself. Absolutely. However, I’m afraid that should I ever get into a confrontation with someone, that it could immediately escalate to the use of guns. Regardless of whether I would have one myself, if it does escalate to the use of guns, there’s a chance I might get shot and killed. When guns weren’t so prevalent, the odds of something escalating to gun violence was extremely low and I feel less safe today (even if I had a gun) than 20 years ago. The reason for this is that there are many more guns on the street than there used to be. I now feel like we’re reverted to the old far west where everyone can be “packing” and at any given time, someone may pull a gun on me and shoot me before I have a chance to shoot them (assuming I was myself “packing”). But that’s just me. Maybe you feel safer carrying a gun and I sincerely hope you never get into a situation where you need to discharge it, let alone show it.
I myself have been broken in on more than one occasion. One of the times, I was home and in bed, it was 5am and two guys climbed through a window. I yelled out “hey!” and they scrammed (lucky for me I guess). Had they been carrying guns, maybe they would have shot me while I was still trying to wake myself up with my blurry vision. My point being, neither one of us had guns, and no one got shot. Sure, they’re despicable and they should have gotten caught and gone to jail for their B&E but in the end, I’d rather be alive than dead.
As for your second point, if a guy breaks into my house and charges me and I’m carrying a gun, yeah, I’d shoot them. If they’re running away like in the example that happened to me above, I wouldn’t shoot them in the back. Different scenario altogether.
You assume that controlling guns/having laws creates a level playing field between all parties.
“It’s illegal to own a gun! So when I break into this house, it’s only with the intent of stealing your property, but not harming you. So go back to bed, it’s all good!”
What a joke.
No, I’m not assuming. I’m using historical data that when there were less guns in general (amongst criminals and non), less people had guns overall. Therefore, upon a B&E where 99% of the time, it’s only to steal stuff and nothing else, most of those criminals weren’t carrying guns. Now, it’s too late. Controlling guns wouldn’t fix anything. There’s already too many of them out there.
[quote=“Axel,post:71,topic:3489”]
[quote=“imola_s4,post:70,topic:3489”]
[quote=“Axel,post:56,topic:3489”]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
For the most part gun crime has been steady for decades, slightly decreased today than in the past. Your inference is the media bias getting to you when you hear any and every crime committed with a gun. It is far from the old west, just more people hear about crazy stories of violence and feel the need to protect themselves nowadays. That is the most common answer people have when I am teaching a concealed weapons certification course.
Now I would not mind implementing more training for people who do choose to carry, only problem I do have with it is I feel like it’s a violation of our rights further. It really all just comes down to training. There are certain things you can do in different situations to either prevent the situation from happening or get yourself out of it. Whether it involves using your firearm or not. A firearm is always taught as a tool to be used as a last resort in any training program you use.
Lastly, if a situation is escalating and its a person concealed carrying legally, then they are not permitted to use a gun as a means of self defense. They have to de-escalate the situation, remove themselves from the situation, or call the police. People who are carrying illegally usually escalate the situation then resort to gun fire. You can view the nationwide stats on CWP holders…the crimes they commit with firearms is so low its statistically insignificant.
Like mentioned before, the core problem does not lie with the guns but instead with the socioeconomic status of some individuals and the hardships they face. The war on drugs isn’t helping the situation either at all…
The safest city in the world is in Texas (gun crime, b&e, etc) which requires all homeowners by law to arm themselves.
Read “more guns less crime” to understand the liberal myth involving gun crime statistics.
You do realize that using a small city in Texas and example for the world is 100% misleading right? And regarding the book you mentioned, the author doesn’t even know how to properly use/perform statistical observations? Be it from having an agenda or just being plain stupid, it’s a complete fail. Only someone who wants his skewed observations to be true would ignore such blatant statistical errors.
You do realize that examining a controlled sample like a small town is actually a great statistical correlation analysis because a lot of noise is eliminated?
John Lott holds a phd in economics, teaching at such institutions including the University of Chicago, Yale University, the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, and the University of Maryland.
Yeah, total fail.
[quote=“notarmed,post:77,topic:3489”]
Ya…but we don’t live in a controlled environment.
but for the statistic nuts, gun violence overall is down since '93
http://info.publicintelligence.net/DoJ-GunViolence1993-2011.pdf
Ever wondered why no one else has stepped up to debunk any of Dr. Lott’s findings? And those who have done so struggled to produce any semi-legitimate claims. Perhaps because his findings are correct. The media relies on emotions, while open minded people rely on facts. There have been more studies that confirmed Lott’s data and theories while the opposition and skeptics continue to struggle providing any conclusive data that rejects his hypothesis and claims. The only fail is those who continue to turn a blind eye to the truth because they confuse emotions with facts…
If Dr Lott was a tourist in Florida, not too long ago, when rental car agencies used to advertise the company of the rental, then his life could have been in jeopardy. you want statistics, I’ll add a google link. I guess that I need to buy a firearm if I travel to see my sister in florida, right? I’ll be “safer”
http://www.google.com/#bav=on.2,or.&fp=748310102cbb9a8e&q=florida+car+rental+tourist+killed+gun