Updated APR Stage II

B8 S4
#1

I’m finally getting the updated version of APR’s Stage II software on Friday. Right now, I’m running the original Stage II flash after having the pulley installed.

For those of you running the latest version, should I expect any significant difference?

Also, my best 1/4 time is 12.45, but that was with my 19" peelers. I’ll have my lighter 18" snows on when I head to the track (think the one local to me opens end of March). I’m hoping for 12.2-12.3. Very interested to see how much I can shave off my best time with the combo of lighter wheels, updated ECU flash, and proper launch control.

#2

Hopefully the snows yield enough traction to better your time

#3

^^ I think they’ll be fine. But that does depend on the weather. Which is why I hope to get out on opening weekend next month.

#4

I’d skip the winter tires (my opinion, as I always say, doesn’t reflect the majority).

Just an example, I was the only one at ATCO last Feb who put on summers, RE-11s, no less, a heavy tire with the heavy 19" peelers. Everyone else complained about traction - even I didn’t do so hot the first couple runs. But later, I was the only one, as far as I know, doing low 1.7 60’s once the track warmed up. Both days were between 0-5 deg C (32-40 F), IIRC. I don’t know what people were running at TMP last April, but it was similar weather and I don’t believe anyone running summers had any traction problems.

Maybe other people have good data with winters vs summers in similar weather. I don’t go by what the Tire Rack says, I know people often quote their “anything under 7 deg C ad you should put on winters” mantra. It’s the same at the road course…even if it’s 0-5 degrees C, I run the r-comps (since that’s all I have for that car), and once they are warm after a lap or so, it’s fine.

#5

You’re basing it on your experience at Atco.

Ok

Who had the best overall et that day? Was anyone close to your 12.08? Or whatever it was? Were they running stage two on straight 110 or whatever? That’s a big advantage if not.

Further was anyone else running dsg? The data shows dsg helps launching a huge amount.

Further did anyone else do burnouts? You claim burnouts are a huge help.

If not, why are you assuming your tires begat the sixty foot success and not the power advantage of stage two with race gas, the better launching of dsg, and the burnouts?

Knowing these fa tors don’t you think it’s possible your tires could have actually been making you slower?

#6

At ATCO many were running DSG, stage II, one other on race gas I think, etc. With all that torque of stage II plus 110, I had no problems with traction. But everyone else was running winter tires, many complaining about traction on pump tunes, some without stage II even, both which give a lot less torque down low. In fact the next day I did another 1.7 on pump gas in even colder weather. At TMP on Good Friday last year as well, there was a mix of summer and winter tires, I’d have to look it up, but again I had no problems with the RE-11s.

As far as spinning the tires past the box up to the beams, it’s something I always do. In Bear’s car I did 0.01 sec better 60’ (1.71) by doing the spin than he did without doing it (1.72, 1.73. 1.73, by the way his 11.76 run was a 1.72 60’ you gotta fix your spreadsheet).

Just my experiences, and seeing the others at the track. I haven’t run winters at the strip ever, so I wouldn’t know, but I’ve never had a problem with ‘extreme performance’ summers.

#7

Tmp was like ten degrees celsius.

At Atco did anyone have your mix of mods and dsg? I think you’ll find that nobody did. Have a look at the old thread. The dsg guys were stage one. The race guy was manual, yes?

Not much of a proxy to make a conclusion out of.

#8

It wouldn’t really be an option for me to switch to my summers by the end of next month just for purposes of hitting the track. As anyone who has lived in Chicago can tell you, we can get smacked with a sizable snowfall well into April - even early May isn’t safe.

I live downtown and store my tires at my parents’ in the suburbs. So the hassle of taking off the snows and then getting them back on wouldn’t be worth it. I’d rather just go to the track on a day when the temp is in the 40s/low 50s.

#9

I don’t fawn over the numbers, I take a quick look and make my best judgement at the time. And so I changed to my summers, which I brought with me. I’m pretty sure I did a 1.72, I’d have to check, but the 12.08 run was a 1.74.

Like I said, I ran the next day on pump, which was a similar setup to Socfan and timh (stage II DSG). I’m pretty sure they weren’t within 0.1 of my 1.78 60’, and both were complaining about traction on winters.

Hey, if you have a better example, by all means share it.

Best 60’ runs on winters tires that ATCO day, aren’t that bad though:
a.) the guy everyone was making fun of (Dave, “Audi A5”) for bragging, he actually did a stock run with a 1.863 60’. Better than most everybody. And he did that on Dunlop wintersport 3ds.
b.) Vitaliy did a 1.83 with his stage I 6MT, but didn’t make it out of first gear, his only run of the day. Damn those russians can drive stick. This is the guy who makes me believe there’s an 11 in these 6MTs after all.

#10

I have no actual data or proof, however its noticeably easier to break my winters (dunlop 3D)loose than my summers (michilin pss). Also its not like I ever warm up my tires. If clochner can hook up as well as he did with his summers then he should run a better time with lighter wheels, and small rotating diameter.

#11

Clochner, My .02 fwiw… The updated tune will help you much more this time of the year than in the summer as you will see less bypass from the colder IAT’s… IMO I didn’t see any significant changes in timing if any at all, based on logging while making passes with the beta stage II I ran for quite a while… When I went 12.06 stage I, I had a decent amount of bypass and with a revised tune I think I would have went 11.9x stage I but that is obviously speculation… When I went from beta 100 to v2 100 I didn’t see much if any change but Arin told me there were indeed some small tweaks but again nothing I could tell from logging… I did notice an increase in timing from the 100 tune to the 104 tune that I have…

As for the winter tires if they spin just lower the pressure and they will hook…

Try some runs with and w/o LC as I don’t think it helps but that is just based on what I have seen others post since I don’t have it I can’t really test… Looking forward to your results…

#12

Thnx for the advice, Ron. I’m hoping the weather will cooperate to get the most out of version 2. And I will definitely do runs with and w/o LC. I really want to end this debate about the efficacy of LC (at least w/ respect to my car).

#13

^^^your car did pretty well with launch control didn’t it?

Reality is that it’s not adaptive, learning launch control. it will work in some traction situations and it won’t work in others. Sometimes you’ll get more traction than the program is expecting and it will bog. Sometimes you will get less traction and it should see some chirp. Other times it will be just right and will hook as well as any other method. Launch control is not ‘best launch’. It’s launch control…in other words, it provides a controlled, foolproof performance launch that will get you moving nicely and won’t see you losing out or screwing up.

It’s not always better. It’s not always worse either.

#14

Your previous time was on pump gas…right? It shows as both 93 and 100 on the spreadsheet, milltek and APR intake. There’s maybe a tenth improvement to make, maybe, v1 to v2 gains are minimal.

When it comes down to it, I didn’t see a huge gain from v1 to v2, traps are the same, it’s just that my 12.26 run on v2 short-shifted 1-2 all night so I only got 5000 rpm out of first gear. I am pretty sure (and so are others) that the short-shift is a traction issue. That 12.26 v1 night I had basically bald OEM P-zeros, which were more-or-less hard as hockey pucks. I had new tires and v2 and did the 12.08. I’ve been within a few hundredths after that, it’s pretty consistent.

I think the only guy who saw success with the factory LC was Fonzie. From what I can see, it has a much milder clutch engagement (possibly softer throttle response too) than just stomping on the gas. Again, like prime, I don’t have it (2010 here).

Do take logs if you go…it’s worth it.

#15

Clochner,

I’m going to go against the grain on this one.

I firmly believe that LC would, scratch that, could make a difference with 1/4 ET vs PT’s method. It really comes down to traction.

There are a number of factors that will affect your traction off the line:

  • track temperature
  • track prep
  • tire temperature
  • tire condition
  • tire pressure
  • Launch RPM or TQ off the line

Though I’m sure there are more I’m going to stick with the basics above for our purposes. Now going through the above list a number of these variables are, for the most part, out of your control:

  • track temperature (weather dependent)
  • track conditions (track dependent)
  • LC launch RPM (Audi or APR dependent)

Now, the good news is that there are still variables that are of your control like:

  • tire condition
  • tire temperature
  • tire pressure (This one is key)

Tire condition - not only refers to having good tread on your tires but also to ensure that the tread is clear of rocks, sand, dust, etc. To ensure good tire condition I check my tread levels but also I do a mini burnout (Jspazz method) each time in the staging lane before I stage. This removes rocks, gravel, etc off the tires nicely (side-note, since I’ve started to do mini burnouts I have NOT had the 1-2 shift hang-up that had been plaguing my car in the previous outings).

Tire temperature - I use a combination of hot lapping and mini burnouts (mentioned earlier) to get the tires nice and warm before I make a serious pass.

Finally, tire pressure - This one, in my mind, is going to be KEY to getting your LC to work effectively. You’re going to need to adjust pressure throughout the day for all four tires based on temperature, track conditions, and tire temperature. I’d start with a tire pressure of say 33psi fronts and 28psi rears. Do a few launches and adjust from there. You’re probably going to go down to 28psi fronts and 23-24psi rears but that’s just a guess.

I think looking at previous data regarding LC vs. non-LC is misleading. I’m not sure many B8 S4 owners are actually drag strip vets and they may not understand the importance of tire condition not to mention the macho factor (we all get trapped in on occasion) of trying to beat the guy beside you and at the same time trying to get your LC to work without overheat.

Anyway, this is just my $0.02 on the matter… Give it a try and let us know how you do… Good Luck!

#16

Wouldn’t it be great if you could have a DSG tune with launch control that you can dial in on your own?

#17

I saw that on a Boss coyote tune…hey we’re asking too much…just give us the last 200 rpm

Nice post bear. Those are low pressures, is that what you went to last year? I think I’ve gone 30/26 maybe, hahaha Voltron went to 17 in his ctsv. It doesn’t affect the trap as much as people think, maybe a few tenths mph…low pro XL rated sidewalls are quite stiff.

#18

Well you mentioned APR working on one in another thread… can you elaborate?

#19

Just saying it would be interesting. On the JHM Launch Assist development I found that it worked great sometimes and just OK other times. All depending on the dozens of variables outlined by 81bear.

p.s. speaking of bears…baldsauce

http://i.imgur.com/2YsS0.jpg

#20

Hey we’re all headed there one day