The MRC swap was into the b8.5 RS4 so the engine weight is only 16lbs more or so and the 4.0T is “only” 65lbs more then the 3.0t. The MRC swapped car is done and running it was in Performance Audi. Since the Chassis fits V8s and straight 4s you should have to be cutting anything. They used the Trans and ECU from the 4.0T car but as we know the DSG is roughly the same. That said I do agree with what was said just buy a good used S6 unless you want/need a project car and hate excess cash.
To give and idea the weight gain on the engine is 65lb over the 3.0t but the platform weight loss is roughly 300kg or 661lbs.
Just start with a used S6 and upgrade the hell out of it. Not a very good road course car but you can teach it some tricks before the tires and brakes overheat.
A better project would be a 2.5TFSI swap with 2WD.
if the 4.0TT rev’ed to 8400rpm I would agree. I think it would remove some of the R8’s Character. Even though the horsepower injection would be very nice
Would you say driving an R8 is more about max hp than driving an S4??? Anyone who ever tunes/mods their car is looking for MORE of something. Being able to swap the 4.0TT into an older R8 can be had for well under 100k with it being much faster on just a tune than a new V10 plus which will cost twice as much…as long as it doesnt melt to ground I forgot about that… there has to be a way to improve cooling.
I’m saying the R8 leaves you feeling satisfied. These other cars you reference leave you feeling that the car could use more. The R8 doesn’t have a lot of that.
What’s the beit of a Jerry rigged swapped 4.0t vs a 5.2 dsg? Saving 50 grand? Yeah that’s what matters to R8 owners.
Also, you won’t build a twin turbo R8 for under 100 grand, never mind ‘well under’ 100. You high? You moved to Colorado?
Finally, if someone does that they will almost immediately sell the car and move on to something else as it will feel empty.
People who do these gigantic swaps aren’t doing it because they want more power. They just want something else.
After a quick check on Ebay Motors, the cheapest R8 listed is $66K and most early 2008/2009s are around $70K. I just don’t see someone getting a running non-salvage R8, swapping in a 4.0TT, and actually getting the thing to run right for less than $100K.
Then I am splitting hairs a bit but a S6/7 420 horsepower version 4.0TT would not be good enough for a swap like this in my opinion. So that would mean it would take a RS7/S8/S8+ 560-605 horsepower version 4.0TT to be worth doing the swap. Those engines are going to cost a bunch of money because there are not going to be very many wrecked donor cars right now. In the future there will be but nothing like the availability of the smaller less expensive cars.
Next we get to how are they going to solve the transmission issue? I doubt that the 4.0TT will bolt right up to the R8 transmission. Even if it did then the R8 transmission was never intended to handle a bunch of torque. I would have to assume that the person doing the swap would use a manual transmission R8 because a R-tronic would just further complicate things. Plus the R-tronic/E-gear single clutch transmissions were always kind of weak. Even still though that is a big stress on the clutch, synchronizers, and transmission internals going from a max 317 ft-lbs of torque to 516 ft-lbs of torque.
After a quick few minutes of thought it just seems like more and more of a pain in the ass to do a 4.0TT swap into a R8. If someone was going to do it then I would wish them luck but be happy that I didn’t have to deal with it.
exactly jimmy, there’s way more to this than just finding a salvaged S6 4.0 and plopping it in to a 2009 R8 4.2 with 110,000 miles on it.
the transmission discussion is totally different…the manual and R tronic R8 transmissions aren’t really noted for lighting the world on fire
of course you could just get an S-tronic R8 and put it in there and you’d have great performance, but again that’s a marginal gain vs. an S-tronic 5.2…and you’ve now got a massive job making it fit before you get there.
the whole thing is somewhat comical to me. Someone who has the patience, time and resources to buy an R8…and to buy a 4.0T from the S8/RS67 also has the resources to do it right and just buy a newer R8 S-tronic that runs 10s @ 128 mph.
Something nobody is considering is the depreciation. What do you think this R8 project will cost…lets say $120,000. Fine. Try to sell it…and guess what nobody will give you jack shit for it. You’ll be lucky to get $80,000 for it once it’s done. So you’ll pay $40,000 to drive a fast R8 with fuckloads of power. Guess what you can buy a 2 year old one, and drive it for 2 years for half that. And you’ll be listening to a sweet V10 that revs to 8000+ RPM, all while being as calm as a hindu cow because you have a perfect car with a full warranty.
I’m pretty sure i’d be unsatisfied with a NA 4.2 R8’s performance, and unsatisfied with the v10 plus price.
Saki i actually used your numbers…unless you were high at the time??? “$15k for crate 4.0T then $10k to fabricate” = $25 (lets add 10k just in case) so $35k
you weren’t using my numbers, and no I wasn’t high. Never have been.
those numbers were for a B8 S4…R8 is a whole new world of complicated as Jimmy showed. For example the 4.0T in the S6 (the engine whose price I quoted…add another $12,000 for the strong 4.0T) does bolt up to the same DSG that is in the B8 S4. That’s pretty simple. Not the same in the R8 though…you’re talking about 10 year old R8s with 10 year old R8 transmissions, neither of which were all that well received at the time. So not only do they not just mate up nice, they’re sorta shit to start. So add another fortune in tuning/build to get the trans/engine to mate up.
I didn’t think it was realistic to get a decent R8 for less than $80,000.
you said you wouldn’t be satisfied with 5.2 R8 pricing…why? You’re willing to go $100,000+ into a swap that will take 2 years to complete and tune and get right. Factor in your time value of money, depreciation of the car (which will not be road legal in too many states) and the ‘cost’ of owning this unicorn, your main concern with the 5.2, will end up being gigantic
Consider:
build, time, tuning etc. of around $100,000 even if you’re right…that was a 65k R8 you bought. And it’s now a ‘salvage title’ $45,000 R8 if you ever sell it. But you’re in it for $55,000 on top of that. Unless you find some forum sucker to buy it for more. IF you keep it for 2 years after the build is done, your cost is $13,500/year for a car you drove for only 2 of those 4 years. SO $27,500/year.
I’ll give him $145,000 CDN which is about $108,000 USD
And I’ll DESTROY your 4.0T manual swap…and you will be begging me for a recording of my car at 8500 RPMs to play on the CD player in your 9 year old muffled sounding turbo 4.0 that revs to 6800.
AFter all of this, my car will depreciate about $20,000 total over the next 2-3 years. So I’ll get back $90,000 pretty easily when I’m ready for something new.
I was talking going manual transmission, does that matter?
they are slowly dropping
I was talking 2017 5.2 V10 plus (610hp) which are much faster than the normal 5.2s (550hp). Those are all around 200k. I dont think i’d ever sell it. I’ll keep it just like my S5 (probably turn it into a track car eventually). If it took 2years + then I’d be out; 6 months would be the longest i could wait.
That is a nice deal for that 2014 yet it will be down about 200hp/400tq :o for around the same price!
So I dont think there will be any destroying on your end :D. Open up the cats and that V8 will produce a nice note.
In the end this project is probably not feasible in 6 months for under $110k (I wonder what JHM thinks?), so a R8 similar to the one you mentioned + the UGR stage 1 kit ($32k) is what looks best to me ;D
its ridiculous how they’re holding value. These were $120,000 in 2008. It’s 2017 tomorrow night. They’re still mostly $80,000. That’s ridiculously good. If you daily drove it and put 120,000 miles on it, it might be down to $60,000 today. That means for $7,000/year you drove an R8. That’s like $590/month. It’s something nobody considers when pricing out a car to buy. They think about cost, and ‘payment’ on the loan etc. as if that’s relevant to total cost lol, but they never factor in depreciation.
I’m pretty sure my cost of ownership (car alone) of my RS4 is in the $400/month range for the 5 years I’ve owned it. AKA honda accord V6 territory or Infiniti G35
Your example of cherry picking the latest, greatest 2017 R8 5.2 Plus is entirely irrelevant. You’re comparing a 9 year old R8 4.2 with a ghetto swap to a brand new supercar. Why not compare it to the price of a Veyron or Chiyron .
The comparison I showed eliminates the swap. Don’t forget you were talking about swapping in the S6 engine, with the smaller turbos and the weaker internals and cooling. You want to make it into a tuned RS7 type level of power? You’re in for another $15,000 or so. So you’re now spending more, waiting 2 years, and for what? so you can ham fist the shifts and lose to a tuned B8 S4 on race gas…not to mention that 5.2 550hp R8 DSG that will stilll leave you at the start line like you forgot to go.
Saki, I have been occasionally looking at nicer cars for my next car and what you are saying about the depreciation is interesting. It seems like the really nice cars lose a bunch of value the first couple years and then pleateu. Hell the RS4 did that too around $40-50. The extreme high end cars like Lamborghinis seem to get whored around with 7-9 owners at a certain point because the owners can buy them, drive them around for a little bit, and then sell them for what they paid for them.
A bit off topic but Car and Driver named the Gen 2 R8/Huracan V10 one of the 10 best engines. It also appears to rev to 8,800 rpms now too.
Seriously! I keep periodically checking thinking after the release of this updated new R8 the previous ones will drop 20% in price.
My point was to say for around 100k a R8 with the 4.0TT (RS7 tuned swapped) will be faster than a brand new 200k R8…probably not faster than a 2+ million chiyron in a straight line.
It was all in theory. I took your numbers you posted and added 10k total for the bigger turbo 4.0TT. As I said 6months would be the longest I could wait, anything longer it would not be worth it. Not sure why your assuming the “ham fist the shifts and lose to a tuned B8 S4 on race gas” ??? still disagree there as well.
You really like a tuned B8 S4 dsg on race gas will beat a R8 with a tuned RS7 engine with a decent driver ??? The S4 is down heaps of tq and power AND up 300lbs in weight. Keep in mind the R8 is 600 lbs less than the RS7…it will be trapping a lot higher than the 129mph tuned RS7
You still think the race gas tuned B8 S4 with the highest ever trap of 123mph will beat this frankenstein R8?
Again I’m just going on theory using your numbers; I’m a pharmacist that likes to play with numbers. If this could be made within 6 months for around 100k AND reliable like the kit I currently have; to me it’s a killer combo.
Would the driveline hold? probably not.
clutch? no. would need JHM love there.
Other moving parts subject to that tq increase that will be in jeopardy - probably.
I’ve seen 500-600-700-800 hp cars at the dragstrip and they’re rarely quick as
they don’t have AWD
they don’t have a lightning shifting DSG transmission
people don’t know how to drive
You made a big assumption that we’re suddenly going to have some great driver at the helm…yeah because most guys dumping $100,000 + into a build are great drivers lol. Rarely. I would submit that 70% of the forum wouldn’t run a time within half a second of a good driver, in any car.
So you’re comparing the DSG B8, which is about as flawless at putting down its modest power as it gets, with a manual transmission R8 with a twin turbo V8 with a big boost hit and no automatic transmission to keep the boost up as the driver fights his way through the notchy shifter.
The record books are full of cars that make 600 whp, trap 130 and run 11.9. That’s what an R8 twin turbo manual trans would do.
What’s the fastest ever manual transmission R8? don’t forget there are 4.2 twin turbo and 5.2 twin turbo R8s all over the world.
143 mph = about 800-900 whp, or 1000 hp give or take. It’s an AMS Alpha 10, which is their 1000 hp kit. That’s an AMS alpha and they have real deal drivers driving their cars for testing.
It went 10.7. That’s terrible frankly considering the power it’s making. The JHM RS4 went 10.7 with about 150 whp less than that. @ 129-130 mph.
It’s just tough to put power down, especially in an R8 that is essentially RWD (80%), and with a manual trans losing boost…just not as easy as you might think. that car would get roasted at a stoplight by a nicely modded B8 S4.
Here’s the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcFeayaLY2o the car wasnt even launched, but they claimed stock clutch, OEM tires, and cold track. With a proper launch/driver that car should be low tens.
Manual so much more fun even though its so much slower.
I enjoy driving the SQ5 but bored by the paddles.
In the end a UGR V10 R8 that has been proven AND is warrantied makes the most sense!
with 143 mph of trap speed you should be knocking on 9s.
it’s tough.
Anyway, this is a silly discussion really. Hopefully someone does this so we can see what happens. Problem with these builds is it never gets where we want it to
it’s rarely a forum guy in the first place so there’s that
it’s also rare that the guy will get it all done and then test the car
if he does, it’s rare as hell that he will go to an actual dragstrip
if he does, it’s rare as hell that he will be able to drive the car well
if he does, it’s rare as hell that we’ll hear about it because he’s not a car forum guy
there’s a lot of things that need to fall into place.
I forgot about that… there has to be a way to improve cooling.
they are slowly dropping