Video: Racing a Stage II B8 S4 in my Stage III B5 S4 - copied from vendorzine...

B8 S4
#221

I totally understand. I’m just saying it’s funny that you want that wide pool of data, but you bought based on a dyno. That’s all that was out when you bought your APR tune. Personally I would rather see more. APR did PBOX+dyno+1/4 mlie for the RS4, the RS5 and the S7. I’m not sure about the 2.0t stuff if they did. That’s great., That’s doing it right.

I think JHM should share dyno data for their business’ sake, but I also understand why they don’t. If they did, they would sell way more tunes. Of course if they did they would also be legitimizing the dyno, and they won’t do it. Same goes for 60-130. They don’t want to legitimize a slightly useless test just to snag more tunes…because ultimately it will empower a bunch of half assed companies to sell based on these things and let them continue to avoid the world’s standard acceleration test, the 1/4 mile. Dyno and 60-130 and single gear pulls allow shitty tuners who dynotune to make a car look fast. reality may show that the car is plagued with issues that will see it lose a real race at real world speeds (0-100 mph or something that rips through a few gears).

At the end of the day, we buy our cars to be faster. A 1/4 mile shows how it launches, how it runs through the gears, and how it does top end (lots of top end, but it’s pretty balanced).

I would like to see other testing data acceleration wise, however it’s just tough to get it fairly. You guys haven’t seen too many scammers yet (although ASP sure tried to pull the wool over your eyes), but the other platforms have seen so many bullshit artists.

You keep referring to variables in the quarter mile. Don’t you think you should , as a tuning company, be able to address those???!!!

If you suck at driving get a good driver
If your tune sucks, fix your tune
If your clutch sucks, fix it
If your DA sucks, wait till good weather
If your track is too busy, wait till it’s quiet…o better yet rent it

THEN release KICK ASS data.

No reason to release weak ass data with a bunch of excuses. That to me is kinda strange.

#222

It’s not a perfect world and my emotional desire for more power outweighs my logical levelheadedness. simply put, I become a girl when I see something I want… ;D

#223

Yep, unfortunately Bear is right. If we were to wait for all the data on the APR tune we would have had to wait until last year. We had their dyno numbers along with a few others withing a few months of release. The track times came in that fall or the following spring, not really sure. And I think the 60-130 list was started last year. If I had waited all the different results I would have just a intake, tune and pulley on my car. There simply isn’t enough testing to make a completely educated decision for all of our parts.

Earlier in the year I even contacted 034 offering to do flow testing and dynos for theirs and stock cats for a discount. I think they offered under 10%, which would have been nothing in terms of my added costs. I had contacted a company here in NJ regarding the flowtesting and it would have likely required a custom attachment to work on his machine in addition to the usual costs.

#224

I think APR still hasn’t tested the car. Forutnately guys like 81bear stepped up! and primetime.

It’s not a perfect world of course. however in the other platforms (not Audi) the standards are MUCH higher. It’s like a complete joke to come out with an MS paint graph to sell your tune when you’re someone like jfonz. You get crucified.

You want to tune GTRs? You buy a fucking GTR, tune it, then show everyone how fast you are. You don’t borrow one from someone and throw it on a dyno (that you’re paying for) and then say ‘WE ARE GREAT!’ Goes for Mustangs, Corvettes, and basically every car where you modify them to go faster.

#225

I would actually prefer end user testing. Did Fonz ever release any numbers? I thought it was just itguy talking with no results shown?

#226

end user testing to confirm the shop testing, sure. However that’s not up to the shop.

Fonz? Who the fuck knows. Based on some of the stuff we have seen I don’t think I would care what they did. He was able to get some good acceleration out of the B5 S4, however when you see some of the corners that are bring cut to do so…makes you wonder. If you’re gambling with a $4500 b5 S4, big deal. If you’re gambling with a $50,000 B8 S4…yikes. That is unless you or your customer blow the engine, and then lie to Audi and defraud them out of a motor replacement. Then it’s fine.

#227

Yes… a shop/tuner should be able to sort that out but that doesn’t mean a customer will be able to. With that performance measure (1/4) the variables are never eliminated just managed. That’s why real world results, though very important, are not the only performance measuring stick I would look at.

#228

I don’t understand why you’re talking about customer quarter mile runs. The whole tangeant was about shops releasing information. Customer has nothing to do with that.

If you’re a shop you release a quarter mile time for an important performance mod. Simple.

You then said the 1/4 mlie introduces a bunch of variables that could taint the data and in your example, make a stage III car look not very good. My point it that if you’re letting variables make your car look shitty, you must be somewhat stupid. Nobody is going to fuck up a result and then release that result. You make sure you get it right. Arin isn’t going to take his car to the strip in the heat of an alabama summer. Or with bad gas. Have you noticed that they haven’t posted jack shit on stage III yet? Or the RS5? or the B7 Rs4 1740? Of course not. They’re waiting for a good opportunity, and will nail down all of the variables when they go. When they ran the B7 RS4 a couple of years ago, they went on a cool evening.

81, when you go to the dragstrip do you have a mattress on the roof? A 100lb toolbox in the trunk? Your golf clubs? A full tank of gas? Do you go when it’s 94 degrees out? Do you make sure you have a tank of shitty 91 gas from pioneer?

NO

You eliminate all of those variables. You do it right. That’s what the shops should be doing when they release 1/4 mile data. Your claim that there are variables that could skew the data implies the shops are really dumb.

#229

FWIW, I think the importance of the tune and dyno or dragstrip results are being overstated.

The B8 S4 community is a little beyond the tune being a big game changer. When APR didn’t have their shit together with V1, it was easy for REVO to come in with a faster tune. Now, for the most part, everyone is the same, be it stage I or stage II. There’s only so many parameters you can change that will actually make you faster, and everyone has pretty much converged on (except REVO/stasis, although I haven’t heard of motors blowing up lately).

Now that SIMOS 8.4 tools are released, it is pretty easy for the 2nd wave of tuners to come in at this point and use the same maximized parameters as APR and GIAC to make the same power with the stock blower and motor. Remember Arin/apr was pretty critical of Gary releasing the flashing tools to the hands of the dealers, since that would speed up this reverse engineering greatly…I’m sure the ASP, JFonz, uni or whatever tunes have had a peek at their competitors parameters.

Things won’t get really interesting until upgraded power adders are released. Curious when/if the 1740 will have a release from its OEM.

#230

My original point was that I wanted as much info as possible from different types of sources. I think that dyno results are a good measure for performance as I think the 1/4 ET and trap is also a good measure. Though I think they both have their own disadvantage but when paired together they can make a compelling supporting argument for a product. That’s it…

The point about the 1/4 stage 3 example was just to illustrate why the dyno performance measure is a valid piece of data as it does the best job to eliminate variables.

#231

I think I’m looking fowards to small things being released. In the way JHM changed the 4.2 I hope someone takes up our platform. As awesome as APR is I don’t think I’ll ever get the stg 3, I’m much more likely to get small things to extract the most power out of our little tvs1320

#232

The issie is data…dyno or 1/4 0-60

I think we all like seeing dyno info and if its apr or the big guys its got its place…what breaks down this testing tool is when a jfonz type or amd use it to sell you something and you see these crazy numbers its cheapens the tool as a hole…

People spend more money per part on lw wheels and other parts…no dyno for that on some dynos lw larts cost you power…

Acceleration tests done correctly are near impossible to fake…for me we have gotten so used to the old standard of dyno…just recently we have started to ask…what amount of change is that dyno sheet going to give me…the acceleration tests take testing to reality