A couple of yeas ago I was in Albuquerque NM with an old friend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3iQ8uV4d-I&feature=youtu.be
The best this car ever turned was a 10.98, some time ago. Got it running nicely but the car had an unknown fuel leak which got on the rear tires. Does this prove rear wheel drive cars are unsafe at the drag strip?
LOL! No, one car video of someone almost losing it doesn’t prove that… So this is your buddy? How many passes he have in that car under his belt? The one comment almost makes it sound like this has happened before? Really couldn’t tell if this was driver issue or maybe something on the track? He drove out of it nicely though… Been there before but never that bad… lol
Yes, an old friend. He has had numerous runs in that car plus a lifetime of experience. He built that car plus many others. Even raced at Bonneville. As I wrote, we failed to properly fix a fuel leak, got on the rear wheels. Just kidding about rear wheel cars and the strip.
What proves RWD sucks is the latest independent testing done of the new z06 and the hellcat.
Forum members took two of these cars to Hennessey dragstrip and the hellcat couldn’t get out of the 12s.
The z06, which has the same blower as the Apr kit but weighs 450 lbs less than an rs4 , went mid-high 11s @ 126 on street tires.
Both cars needed drag radials to run anything respectable, the Z going high 10s and the hellcat running low 11s.
What’s the point.
A 4000 lb rs4 ran 11.1 @ 125 with the same blower on street tires.
Yep.
Sure, from a roll at the right speed (dangerous/stupid highway pulls) those higher HP RWD cars will win. But in 99% of racing scenarios (1/4 mile, red light to red light, stop sign to stop sign, etc.) The car with superior off the line traction will win.
Driving on slicks there is no tred on the tire at all. So if he gets anything on the tire or hits any small amount of liquid the tires loose traction. They can’t push the fluid out of the way.
Exactly
RWD cars are fun but if you have to put different tires on the car to use the car the car isn’t really well equipped or very well ballenced
awd works amazing - no debate.
But on a proper rwd car setup for drag, you would have likely played with the geometry.
Anti squat and instant center make a huge difference–even if it is “just” rwd.
A properly setup rwd car can also get the holeshot…but once you begin to compare to an awd car with launch control and a tranny that can take the power…then ok, awd is going to get the holeshot everytime. But I thought part of the fun of the sport was the actual driving part 
I disagree. Buddy of mine tests cars for cars.com. He had a Hellcat for 2 days last summer and took it to the drag strip. In less than ideal weather (hot/humid) he got the Hellcat running very respectable times (11.4xx) on the stock street tires. With some more seat time and cooler weather, there is no doubt he would have been even deeper into the 11s.
Thread here:
http://www.thechicagogarage.com/forum/automotive-discussions/141717-cars-com-hellcat-numbers-here.html
Not only that but there are stock tire C6 Z06’s in the very low 11s (even one in the 10s) and stock tire C6 ZR1s well into the 10s. Give the C7 Z06 some more time in the hands of experienced drag racers and you will see much more impressive E.T.s. Powerful RWD cars these days are 60 footing much better than they used to.
All slicks allow RWD cars to do is launch like a similarly equipped awd car would on street tires.
Want some slicks for your RWD car ? Great, get your RWD car some slicks.
Guess what though… Now my awd car gets some too if we are following the scientific method. That rs4 that went 11.1 on street tires put on some drag slicks for fun and went 10.60…and cut a 1.50 60’.
Saying you can ‘dial in’ the RWD car only works if you don’t so the same stuff to the awd car. And when you do, all else being equal, you get killed.
Great. There are stock hellcats running well into the 10s with sticky tires. The point is relative performance, not absolute. Sure 11.4 sounds nice on an audi forum where none of our cars are making much more than 500 at the crank. The hellcat makes 707 hp. 625 whp or so
Give an audi 700 hp on a Warm day or say 625 whp… And guess what, 11.4 would make you cry.
Jhm went 10.7 on street tires in California with probably 525 whp on their rs4. Give them another 100 whp? 11.4 would make them quit their jobs
Imagine your audi made another 250 hp…You’d be happy running times that just about match primetime today? (he’s two tenths behind your buddy, and he’s down about 250 hp)
The Delta from what the hellcat does on RWD street tires vs slicks is huge, and it’s because RWD just doesn’t work at these levels. That’s the point.
The Hellcat also weighs about 500lbs more than a B7 RS4. I’m not saying the AWD doesn’t give an advantage on street tires. It obviously does, but it’s far from necessary with over 500hp.
Saying RWD doesn’t “work” at those power levels when I just showed you a Hellcat pulling 1.8s on stock tires doesn’t really make sense.
Saki, where is this 10.7@125mph RS4 you speak of? It’s not on the 1/4 mile list.
Just looking the AR 1.4 mile list, lots of high powered AWD cars on there with 60’ times very similar to a street tire’d Hellcat.
nm, I mis-read and can’t edit my post. Disregard question about RS4 going 10.7@125…
10.7 @ 130 jhm went on street tires
Not on the list because they haven’t released the slips. It’s in their year end video though.
You just showed a hellcat cutting a 1.8 with 707 hp and said it is an example of RWD ‘working’ vs my broad statement that RWD doesn’t work .
Again , a 707 hp 650tq car has a world of advantages when it’s launching. The 1.8 sounds nice because we are in a different world power wise. The 700 hp hellcat with RWD turns out ‘impressive’ 60’ times that match my stock rs4, which was happy with a 1.8 60’ (but which makes 350 tq less!)
My point is again that comparing doesn’t make a load of sense. focus on hellcat on streets vs hellcat on drag slicks to see the degree to which it is leaving acceleration on the table at low speeds. It’s huge. Want a similar sized awd high per car? Use an rs7 with a tune. It will still be down 50-100 hp to the hellcat, but will comfortably obliterate it.
Come on saki, you know that power has very little to do with 60’ times. Stock WRXs cut 1.7s back in 2002 with ~200 less hp than your RS4.
Again, I don’t think you understand where I’m coming from here. Obviously AWD gives an advantage on street tires. I’m not arguing that. I’m simply saying that these high horsepower RWD cars have plenty of usable traction, even at low speeds. Sub 2.0 60’s on stock tires clearly shows that.
I don’t agree at all power /torque has very little to do with 60 times. In fact I can point to rs4 or b8 s4 results which we have plenty of to show that power/torque indeed has a huge influence on how well a car launches. Stock b8 s4s are happy getting a 1.8 out of the car. Same with rs4s. Modded, you start to see 1.7 and then 1.6. That’s not a coincidence.
As for a stock sti… It weighs a few hundred pounds less than an rs4 and makes the same torque. You’re making my point for me.
I get what you’re saying completely. My point is that you’re happy with mediocrity because you’re using a reference set (a 1.8) that is based on cars with much less power/torque . The reality is that your buddy had to make a boatload of passes with a hellcat in order to come up with a 1.8…and that’s not very good for 700hp/650tq.
So while they have some usable traction, they’re performing (from 0-330 feet) like cars with 200+ less hp/tq. RWD means you have ‘some usable traction’ , but never enough for a high power car, so you’re always performing like a much weaker car.
What’s the point?
Huge influence, no. Traction is the largest part of 60’ times. Power has very little to do with 60’ times in a vast majority of vehicles. If you aren’t overwhelming traction and you add power, you will obviously 60’ better. There is a point of diminishing returns though with AWD cars. That’s why the quickest drag cars are NOT AWD.
I never said anything about the STi. I was talking about a 2002 base WRX (which has 100 LESS LB-FT of torque than a B7 RS4) . That said an STi is down 27 lb-ft to the B7 RS4. It doesn’t make the same torque. Either way the 2002 WRX can scoot it’s way to the 60’ with a paltry power/weight ratio (they trapped 90-92mph stock) because of traction.
Happy with mediocrity? LOL no. I’m saying that it’s impressive that a 700hp RWD on street tires isn’t just sitting there spinning. They can actually turn a respectable 60’ time. Take any mass production RWD vehicle from 10 years ago and put 700hp in it and watch it just sit and spin. The chassis and suspension engineer advances are impressive.
The point is there is more to owning a high performance vehicle than just launching from a stop on street tires. High powered RWD vehicles are far from pointless.
Truth! XD
AWD Tesla destroys Challenger Hellcat at the strip - http://blog.caranddriver.com/teslas-p85d-sets-ev-record-14-mile-destroys-poorly-launched-challenger-hellcat-video/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+caranddriver%2Fblog+(Car+and+Driver)
slow and too expensive. Buy an Rs7, have money for gas for life, and own a car that’s properly fast and luxurious unlike the Tesla whose long term reliability and quality ratings are among the industry’s worst.