Warning: RS4 bashing inside

B6/7 S4/RS4
#1

Just kidding… ;D

But I did test drive this today.

http://www.rcautomotive.com/detail-2008-audi-rs4-sedan-used-10222754.html

REALLY nice car.

I’ve been going back and forth for a few months now on weather or not I should dump my B6 and start over with an RS4. I decided that I should probably actually drive one before I really start making decisions.

First of all, the extra power is very noticeable. It feels like the car pulls hard all the way through the RPM band vs my S4 which can feel peaky at times (probably due, in part, to the unfiltered nature of the JHM tune) and tends to fall on its face at higher RPMs. The additional 1000 RPM available was very nice to be able to play with, wish the S4 could spin as high. It reminded me of my old Rx-7s, but with actual torque.

To my surprise, the power difference was not as colossal as I initially expected. Stock vs stock I’m sure the difference is pretty big… but I think the few mods on my S4 have helped bridge the gap somewhat. Which actually gave me some hope that I’m not just wasting time and money with the S4. The car was under full extended warranty and recently brought in for maintenance but I’m unsure about the carbon situation in the motor. I assume that carbon is probably playing some role and the car may have more in it after a good clean.

Otherwise, I really enjoyed the aesthetic differences both on the exterior and interior. It was actually nice to drive the car because I felt very comfortable, like it was my car on the inside, just better. But I still knew that there was something very different under the hood. The front end, wide fenders, wheels, stance and rear end had me drooling just as they always do when I see one driving down the road.

Handling was better than the S4 as well, which is no surprise. Unfortunately I decided to check out the car after work, during rush hour, so I was somewhat limited. I was able to take 2 or 3 on/off ramps with some speed and get a feel for the car but I would love to feel the car really take some turns. The wheels were slightly more harsh than the AVUS 18s, but overall very civil suspension/ride for city driving. I’m sure the car really shines in the mountains.

Just out of curiosity I asked them about a trade-in for my car and we started to talk numbers. They offered me $12,500 for my car and said it was a “more than fair offer”. I was a little stunned but not really surprised.

So my final “first drive” conclusion… I really enjoyed the car and could appreciate the RS4 as a fantastic overall car. I know that the acceleration/handling performance of the stock RS4 can be matched and/or exceeded by the S4. But the two things that the RS4 has that the S4 simply cannot match… are rarity and the uber sexy exterior. Worth it to some… no doubt. For me, the $25,000 difference between the cars does not add up.

Thanks for reading. Cheers!

Disclaimer: This post is not intended to offend anyone that owns an RS4. If you do, I’m quite jealous as they are fantastic machines. Just wish I could justify spending the extra money on one. I’m sure these types of comparisons have been made before, by people more knowledgeable than me. I was just excited to share my experience with the forum.

#2

Waiting for the RS folks to come pouring in :slight_smile:

Also, you didn’t try the RS4 with just a tune and exhaust. Mistro’s fastest 1/4 mile with just an exhaust I think went 12.4 and now, with a JHM tune, should be even faster (assuming similar conditions). In other words, for very little, you can make the RS4 go into supercharged S4 territory (which would reduce your 25,000 gap to around 15,000 I guess). Still not chump change but you are getting way more car. But yeah, if you’re happy with your S4’s performance for the time being, don’t think it’s be worth going to an RS4 for you.

#3

To me having both cars, the RS4 is soooooo much better built and way more fun to drive. Even after supercharging my S4, I still enjoy driving the RS4 more. Just my two cent. As for the value, I see it. If I were to put the same money in my RS4 that I put into the S4, I’d have a real monster of a car on my hands. Can’t wait to get all that done, just waiting on the CPO to expire next year.

#4

And do what… Say he is spot on?

I wrote a near identical review a few years ago.

Rs4 pluses = widebody looks, extreme rarity, revs, much faster stock for stock (but even Steven with a Jhm s4), sounds a little more interesting, handling is greatly improved

I agree with g rat.

However the biggest plus isn’t even on the list… And that is the vastly stronger motor, should you decide to modify it. Capable of 500 whp without breaking a sweat. 550 whp has been shown too on pump gas, as has 600 on race (on turbo r8 projects, stock motor)

I had a b7 s4 with Jhm tune, full catless 2.5 exhaust and lw parts. I can guarantee that nobody has more testing done (and maybe not even more driving at around 130,000 kms now) in both cars.

For me I was at a crossroads. Do I stand pat or go further with the b7? To me the headers and manifold and such were very expensive for nice but not game changing gains vs where I was already. So supercharger was next but I didn’t trust my motor (burned oil) and I knew it was limited by stock internals to about 400-420 whp. I also had 65000 miles on my s4 so I’d need a new clutch soon, and I didn’t like how high it rode on stock suspension. Addressing those two things was going to be $4-5,000.

My best quarter mile times. Same track, same weather/density altitude.

S4 12.99 @ 107.7
B7 RS4 12.75 @ 108.36

As you an see the straight line difference is negligible vs a well modified S4. However the s4 had about $3500 in mods. Put $3500 into an rs4 and are way down in the low 12s when the DA is same as my two times above… and you’re threatening the 11s in epic DA.

So for me it was easy… Rs4 and all of its improvements, so e of which are huge, and a warranty for three years and emissions friendliness, and potential for massive upside… For about $25,000.

DONT FORGET… you will get lots of that? $25,000 back whenever you sell the rs4. It’s not going to depreciate to zero. Further one might argue at $37,500 and with no new rs4 or any fun, awd v8 sedan being available maybe ever again, and definitely not with a manual transmission, it’s pretty interesting and should hold value well.

When I bought my b7 s4 in 2008 they were like $41,000 - $43,000. The rs4 back then was around $67,000-68,000 new (with a discount anyone could get) . And like $63-64,000 for used ones. Note the gap… It hasn’t changed. The rs4 is holding value well.

#5

Nope, say exactly what you just said hehe

#6

So there I was…looking through the interests at RS4s for sale…again

#7

Me too! Built motor and wide body do it for me but I just can’t part with my S at the moment.

#8

There’s something about the wagon that I love. That said, had they brought the RS4 Avant to NA, I would have bought that instead without looking back. In other words, if my decision had been between sedans, I would have gotten the RS4 over the S4.

#9

The wagon with suspension is fantastic looking.

#10

That and all your comments and reasons for moving from S4 to RS are spot on
I was about to do chain guides, headers, control arms and looking SC when a wagon in Avus came up on a fallen through trade, while I was picking up my S from a service

Forged internals, the look, the ride and handling and the stock sound and wheels etc meant I didn’t have to spend a dime on upgrades to get over 400hp

Miss the S character but love the rarity especially in wagon form and it feels more special

#11

^^^

Whereabouts are you located? Europe I guess with RS4 wagons on the menu. Lucky!

#12

Just when I was feeling confident about my decision, Saki and the other RS4 owners had to chime in a ruin it for me haha.

Spent a while today looking at RS4s for sale online. Saki is 100% right about their value holding strong. Here I was thinking that this one for $37k was priced high, some out there are $60,000!

Also, does anyone know the production numbers of RS4s off hand. For some reason I was thinking 5000 in the states but that seems really low.

At this point I think I will be looking at buying a JHM SC and built motor for the S4 in a little less than two years. By that time I can probably get an RS4 and have money for exhaust and other mods on it. Guess I will try to decide then… when I’m faced with a black and white decision.

The thing I can’t get over is that the choice is so hard. Which is strange because the cars are quite similar. It’s just those intangibles of rarity, value and a better base to build upon that I can’t get out of my head.

One thing that I can say about the RS4 though… the whole carbon buildup issue really bothers me. I would always feel like there was something that could be done to make it better. I would probably be one of those guys that do daily carbon cleans haha.

#13

Production numbers for the us are right around 2500

I believe 300 convertibles but not sure if they were included in the 2500.

The rs4 registry that stahmann ran had like 1900 cars registered.

Mine is one of the newest ones made. The Vin is an 08 and ends in like 02550, and I don’t believe more than two or three were on the registry as late as that Vin (they counted up from zero each year) .

Carbon regarding performance is very overblown. Don’t forget the fastest stock quarter mile time ever run was my car with 35,000 miles. I also saw 109.9 mph of trap speed (highest stock trap ever) when it had 45,000 miles. Never carbon cleaned.

As for engine safety I would say do it every couple years. Jhm developed a really cool solution but haven’t done enough testing to release it yet.

Here are my thoughts on this subject. Some good data in there too for mistro car which was before and after tested at he strip pre and post carbon. Nobody has done that before.

http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=1077.0

#14

Car looks clean. Start talking numbers by getting the lowest price you can for the RS4 and let them think they are making it back off your trade in $12.5 s4. Sell your S4 privately or Carmax then go back to them and hold them to their offer.

I can even go in and low ball the shit out of them if you would like. However, as clean as that Ti RS4 looks in UT it may not last long. L
Let me know if i can be of any help

#15

Saki, what was your best stock s4 time? Just so we can get a stock vs stock comparison. The butt dyno on these NA v8s can be deceiving

#16

Never went while stock. Although the day I went 12.99 @ 107.7 Bangoman was with me bone stock and his best was 13.8 @ 101-102

#17

There are a few higher mileage rs4’s in my area 75-125k and ranging from 26-35. It’s definitely tempting, I love the wide body and there seems to be so much more confidence in the motor. That said, people are starting to dump them around 100k and just like any Audi I would not want to be one of the first to explore the 100k+ maintenance.

I also love the DTM body, wish I could have both. Not to mention the car is pretty heavily modded and has an engine with less then 20k miles. Much harder time justifying getting rid of it for me.

The way I look at it is rs4 is another 10-20k but then the supporting mods (which for most are inevitable eventually) are another 5k+ but there is that exclusivity. Guess we don’t even know if another rs4 will get brought in to the states in the future.

Do you guys think the car will seem pretty dated in 3-4 years? For instance the b5 is pretty dated in terms of comfort and technology but I still have a soft spot for the looks.

#18

There are a few higher mileage rs4’s in my area 75-125k and ranging from 26-35. It’s definitely tempting, I love the wide body and there seems to be so much more confidence in the motor. That said, people are starting to dump them around 100k and just like any Audi I would not want to be one of the first to explore the 100k+ maintenance.

I also love the DTM body, wish I could have both. Not to mention the car is pretty heavily modded and has an engine with less then 20k miles. Much harder time justifying getting rid of it for me.

The way I look at it is rs4 is another 10-20k but then the supporting mods (which for most are inevitable eventually) are another 5k+ but there is that exclusivity. Guess we don’t even know if another rs4 will get brought in to the states in the future.

Do you guys think the car will seem pretty dated in 3-4 years? For instance the b5 is pretty dated in terms of comfort and technology but I still have a soft spot for the looks.

#19

Is this the day of double posts? :slight_smile:

#20

It’s funny, I have not modded my RS4 at all in 18 months. I will put an exhaust on it soon but it’s excellent stock.

$5,000 is pretty aggressive as an estimate for costs unless you’re talking about getting some expensive coilovers

tune= $650 for JHM
piggies = free
catback = stock resonated valved system is great for free but you can get a JHM for like $1800 new
intake spacers = $200 but a great little mod to do when you’re carbon cleaning

All around you can have a low 12s RS4 for $3000 in mods at the most…and on a budget you can grab piggies, tune for $650 and be damn quick. Mistro went 12.47 @ 113.7 (in admittedly awesome density altitude ) with $200 intake spacers, free piggies that he DIYd and $200 ECS h pipe. He also had KWV3 coilovers. Pretty awesome performance for a modest price.