Water Meth Injection RS4

B6/7 S4/RS4
#1

Ok so this has been hacked out a bit over the years but I have seen nothing in the last 2yrs and this forum seems to have the most IP on RS4s

Helps pls, I live in sunny South Africa, at 1700m above sea and our fuel is shit, equiv to 91 I the US

My aim is to boost octane and keep the intake temps down!
I have access to an aquamist off a development RS4 that a local tuner ran for 2yrs developing a tune and the WMI and exhaust

Now claims aside from them who obviously think it’s amazing, are there any real world thoughts and opinions on me achieving lower intake temps and boosting octane and there by at best maintaining power when it’s hot outside

Finally will the ECU handle this

Thanks in advance

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/12/22859f4fac5f7106ddd12c29cc9a568c.jpg

#2

Are you planning on supercharging the car?

I have quite a bit of experience with water and/or methanol injection, albeit, all with turbo powered cars. The Aquamist systems are top notch (I have one for sale btw ;)) and there are gains to be had using them or any other properly setup system. The gains will be relatively minor with an N/A application but there is nothing but benefits from lowering intake temps as you will be able to run more timing, though there is a limit.

If you are going to inject water, you need to make sure your ignition system is up to the task. Granted, in N/A form, you won’t be injecting near as much as FI cars, but it could still challenge your ignition system. Also, meth is highly corrosive and you need to make sure your fuel system can run it. From your pump, lines and fittings to your injectors. All need to be compatible. Many newer cars are capable right out of the box due to “Flex Fuel” e85 options but I am not sure about these cars, especially given their age. Something you would definitely need to look into.

Is it worth the time and expense? I’d only consider it after I’ve done all the other simple bolt-ons so as to maximize its potential.

I am not very familiar with the Audi ecu but it does seem pretty flexible. In any case, the Aquamist system is a standalone setup that works independently of the cars main ecu so that won’t be an issue. Only question is whether the Audi ecu can adjust the tune accordingly to water and/or meth. My guess is that it can but I cannot definitively answer that but there are no doubt several on here who can.

#3

*beits = benefits.

Sorry, no editing capability.

#4

BENEFITS!!!

#5

there is no “n” or “f” showing up on the post in that word for whatever fucking reason. Stupid site won’t let me edit either.

Sorry for the thread pollution.

#6

Just buy the stuff to mix your own gas and bump the octane up a little. If you can get the stuff listed in this thread locally for a decent amount of money I’d go that route. Sure it kinda seems like a hassle, but so is installing a proper W/M setup, having a proper tune for it, and constantly mixing WM or checking to make sure the tank is full

http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=2601.0

FYI check paint stores or hardware stores for Toluene and Xylene, sometimes you can find it in bulk for very cheap.

#7

^^^yes yes, three times isn’t necessary. N E F is not postable on the site.

HL nice car. Your meth theory sounds like it makes some sense. I am not sure on the practicality of it, so hopefully someone can chime in. JHM’s calibrator/tuner is a member here, so I’m sure he’ll have some input.

#8

Your definitely on the right website I would suggest talking to the jhm calibrator he is on this site. I have seen and talked to him even watched him do testing on the water injection methanol testing several years back.

Here is you take on what I have seen in testing on my own. Your completely wasting your time and money on the idea. You will get better power and heat removal from mixing your fuel. This link is great
http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=2601.0

on natural aspiration cars thinking spraying water meth will help the octane levels is rediclous. The amount of meth you have to spray to effect the octane levels is incredibly more then any kit will provide. The cooling properties are nice but they are more needed and effective when the temps are in the hundreds of degree range. Even in the hot desert W/M isn’t doing much on a N/A car. Since you have a wide ban 02 your car is constantly trying to adjust to keep the APR perfect when you spray W/M your putting the car now into a siuation where the AFR is off due to having a foreign chemical being introduced.

Even in the best case of heat removal and the almost non existent trace of octane improvement your going to see no where near the heat and octane gains that you will by adding a mixed blend in the fuel. The chemicals listed in the link posted remove even more heat per ignition cycle then W/M.

#9

Great input Justin. I really think the mixing his own higher octane fuel is the way to go.

#10

Higher octane will help a little to prevent timing retard due to knock correction. Timing will still be retarded due to high intake temperature though. Even if you inject a water / meth mix it will retard timing as the air intake temperature sensor sits in the MAF. It is coded to retard timing when it is hot.

As for octane boosters - I helped Protea Chemicals create a Booster called Prosolve SF. It is a Toluene, Xylene and Ethanol mix that I ran in my Subaru to enable much higher boost. We ran a 10% mix of this with petrol. It used to be called Witch’s Brew back in the day.

#11

I assume your aim is to go faster. I reckon by the time you’ve figured out how to get the W/M setup going, you’ll have spent enough time and money to get a stg1 supercharger from JHM. Which I suggest as it has also been developed on 91 piss!

#12

You have to be careful saying words like a little or even alot. Vs spraying methanol you know absolutely there is a difference. To say a little change vs gas is without factual backing. You Know better fuel depending on the mix by design will remove heat reduce knock and help add performance.

As for the intake temps those are going to be higher and spraying w/m isn’t going to change what temps that car sees. The maf tells the car what the intake temps are and you can’t spray w/m before the maf or you will destroy the maf.

The overall theme here is w/m won’t work on a na motor like it works on a turbo or supercharged car. Depending on the price and how much you might be spraying a small mist that isn’t enough to effect the fuel trims would be a nice offset to some of the extreme temps you have. Just keep in mind that to effect octane you need to add a ton and to effect intake temps is possible but the car won’t register this as the maf tells the motor the temperature that is coming into the motor.

Don’t just take my thoughts on this every maker of w/m kits feels the same way.

[quote] While power gains are typically less in stock compression naturally aspirated vehicles compared to high compression or forced induction engines, benefits can still be realized due to more timing advance, leaner air/fuel ratios, cleaner engine components, lower temperatures, and the use of the methanol in the injection fluid as a secondary fuel source.
[/quote]
The issue is you won’t see a leaner AFR because your car constantly adjusts this. Adding the W/M will just disturb the system but push back by adjusting the fuel to stay where it’s programmed. The rs4 also already runs leaner stock. So that leaves the higher timing advance. You will get more timing advance power and heat removal from each combustion stroke with a better fuel mix in the tank.

#13

Apols for the late reply
Wow thanks for the advise and education, so I instead bought the guys Ziza Les kit for like 60 bucks

Next question is around stage one from JHM, would WMI have a place then coupled with their system?

#14

What’s the ziza kit.

The jhm kit is non intercooler and in most cases from what people have posted the low boost jhm kit has cooler air temps then the actual intercooler kits of the top mount supercharger kits. Still a small amount of WMI isn’t going to hurt in that case as there is compressed air and compressing air causes friction and friction creates heat. With WMI on the wide ban cars less is more. Once you cross that bridge it would make sense to start a thread here or pm CV he is going to know just what you have to do.

#15

no water meth needed for the stage 1 kit. ive got a guy pming me from Zimbabwe who wants to install the kit too. his altitude and temperatures are similar to yours. jhm is working with him to get him a stage 1 kit. It would be very cool to have you 2 guys compare results. I know his ETs are about a second off where they should be. I say go stage 1 if that’s truly what u want. I wouldnt bother with all the meth stuff if youre staying n/a. this has been discussed quite a few times before with ppl thinking it will help with carbon build up and so on. as everyone above has said, your fuel is what u want to tinker with.

#16

Ok good to know that someone else is doing a RHD then! I do think this is the best option to go now without buying an RS7 and never eating again :stuck_out_tongue:
Ps this is a ziza kit

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/17/03492493fde767f02615082cd0c79742.jpg

Led interior

#17

I put the ziza LED interior light kit in my RS4. Lights look great. Bright!

They fade out just like stock. Only problem is that they don’t fade in like stock. They pop on bright, and then drop down and fade in. Kind of annoying. Doesn’t really matter much, as I keep the overhead light in the OFF setting anyway.

#18

what’s the point? just different temperature light?

#19

The point? Well stock are just regular bulbs and these are LED replacements. So I guess if you don’t do much driving at night and don’t mind the yellow-ey stock bulbs then there is no point. But if you’re like me and work nights and want a nice bright white light to actually be able to see what you’re looking at in the dark, then that’s where these come in. I love mine. I think it really improved the overall look of the interior too.

#20

I put them in my b6 because I had one burned out. I can takem or leavem.