10 second car, 11 second car, 12 second car or 13 second car?

B5 S4/ RS4
#1

Someone on this site made an interesting point earlier…

[quote]if someone with a 500WHP car posts a time of 13s, you guys actually think that’s a 13 sec car.
[/quote]
The way I see it a dyno means jackshit. You can guestimate what a car will run in the quarter mile if you know its power and weight and the gearing and AWD/RWD/FWD…and especially if you have a database of a couple hundred other passes by the same platform.

However, just because a car is fast in one gear (60-130 or FATS) doesn’t mean it will do well in the litmus test of acceleration: the quarter mile. We have seen countless big power cars run times that suck dick. APR supercharged RS4s dyno’d 420-440 WHP and then went high 12s at the dragstrip @ 110. FLOP. Once they changed the tune, the cars went high 11s @ high teens MPH. Pretty much on the money However the RS4 wasn’t an 11 second car BEFORE it went 11 seconds. It was still a 12 second car.

So that’s the poll…what do you think? If a big dyno power car runs a shitty time at the strip, do we just give him the ‘10 second’ or ‘11 second’ title anyway? Or do we wait until he ACTUALLY runs those times first?

#2

It’s a 13sec car until proven otherwise. whether it be driver mod, tune, hardware, etc…

#3

You can fool a dyno you cant fool time. …almoat every dyno queen hates the 1/4 mile as it is a honest heart breaker and the 1/4 cant be cheated very easily. …

A dyno however can…so many fsiled 1/4 mile guys wave there dyno sheets and show there sweet power curve…well ok but a dyno loads up the car artificially and this makes a fsukse curve…

Dybo sheet drag racing isnt new either is the shock that your 600whp b5 is only a 12 second car…when you have a big dyno sheet and a big 100+ test time but u fail to get a good 1/4 time…there is a term for that…its called dyno queen…its not new

#4

You can record time incorrectly. Argument foiled ;D

#5

I don’t really buy that 15 EPL guys have mediocre times, if a customer comes into a shop and wants a DD tune from EPL, that is what he gets. Hopefully its better setup for the street then the 1/4. Then that person who has no idea how to run the 1/4 runs a bad time, and you add it up to the failed EPL times.

Fact is;

APR
EPL
REVO
JFonz
JHM
ETC,ETC

All these tuners have cars in the 13-15sec range, do they care? NO. Are they all basically the same tune? Yes. Can someone run a more aggressive setup for 1/4 with flatshift code, etc? Yes they can. Will that make them faster in a 60-130… NO, because that’s cheating, and there is no cheating when it comes to 60-130, when it comes to 1/4, everyone keeps their secret sauce to themselves and runs any number of mods to make their time better.

I prefer 60-130, because I know how fast they were going, GPS coordinates, grade of road, gear they were in, and the way its setup, its very very hard to cheat.

#6

Yes, APR, REVO, JFONZ, JHM, etc etc all have cars that have flopped. So has Audi, BMW, etc when conditions just aren’t right for the car to do well (bad driver, bad temperature, bad gas, high elevation etc).

The difference is they have also had TONS of cars that did really well.

EPL…hasn’t. That’s the difference. The EPL ‘best’ times we’ve seen are mediocre for the other quality tuners. That’s what’s so odd about it. Well it’s not that odd, they tune for the dyno sheet so it makes sense. What’s odd is that people fall for it.

Anyway, that’s irrelevant. If you want to debate the merits of EPL as a tuning company, go into my ‘WHERE ARE ALL THE FAST EPL CARS’ thread and tell us all what’s up.

http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=485.0

BACK ON TOPIC

If a 650 whp car runs 12s, it’s a 12 second car until it runs something that is more reflective of it’s spanking good dyno. If it addresses its issues (tune, driver, conditions whatever) and runs something awesome in the tens, at that point we will bestow the coveted 10 second car title on it. But not before then.

See Killer, this is all just part of your education on performance car lingo. Hang in there…you’ll learn.

#7

Poll update: NOBODY agrees with killerS4 that a big dyno sheet = ?? second car …whatever you think it ‘should’ run.

4 votes for ‘13 second car’, and only his one vote for ‘10 second car’.

Killer, if you don’t like the opinion rolling in from this forum, start this same thread on another forum. Try Audizine.

In fact, I’ll do you one better…I’ll start such a thread on your favourite site…6speedonline.

Let’s see what they think!

#8

You dont record you own 1/4 time so that cant be fakes…and a 60-120 time can be faked easy enough…the 5 people that are about the doubble the speed limt loose your licence and get yiur car impounded test are gensrally cars that are also fast in the 1/4 mile…killer…yiu want to make an impact…yiu showed us how 8mpressive your car was in the 60+ test you showed us how your car ranked vrs many impressive cars…ok now take all the cars on that list amd even the ones at the bottom. …now show us one of these cars that you beat there 1/4 mile time…ill save time…none…yiur car is like every 1000hp supra…its a dyno queen…fast on paper

#9

Is this a serious statement? I assume by flat shift…you mean like “no lift” shifting. How in the fuck is that cheating?

…“and there is NO cheating when it comes to 60-130” really man, you can’t honestly believe that people don’t try to cheat.

You can only blame so much on the driver, and most people can analyze a time-slip and see the true potential of the car. Unfortunately, it is usually the tune that is holding a nasty B5 back and your other stament about the DD tune is fucking retarded. Your basically saying EPL tunes cars for daily driving on the fucking autobahn (60-130). I can’t really understand why you guys twist things…call a spade a spade and a flop a flop.

#10

It isn’t so much the ET, as there really are a lot of variables that go into it. The trap speed is a primary indicator of actual power output, so can we change the question to 500 whp = 128 trap speed?

#11

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/996-turbo-gt2/300125-question-about-quarter-mile.html

:slight_smile:

#12

No, we’re not debating the merits of how to evaluate a car. I fully agree with you that trap speed will tell us far more about the power the car makes. This thread is about the title ‘10 second car’ or ‘13 second car’

KillerS4/Burningcoals said ‘a 500 whp car that runs in the 13s is not a 13 second car’

Actually, that’s exactly what it is, until it runs faster than that. If it runs 13 second 5 times in a row, then gets it together and runs 10.8 @ 131, NOW it’s a 10 second car. Not before hand.

This thread is just an exercise to show him that you can’t be called a 10 second car until you actually run in the tens.

p.s. DON’T FORGET TO VOTE IN THE POLL. If a car runs 13.5 as it’s best 1/4 mile time, is it a 10 second car? 11? 12? 13 second car?

#13

ouch…bad news buddy. Even the 6speedonline guys think you’re out to lunch

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/sakimano/Poll_zpsb275f44c.jpg

#14

killer said some pretty dumb shit in the other thread…he actually said it opposite.

He said that he has seen plenty of 10sec cars run 14secs and then switch drivers and run 10 seconds…I’m not sure if he was trying to prove himself wrong or just rambling.

I don’t think he understands that if you run 13.5 your a 13 second car…then 5 runs later run a 12.90 your now a 12 second car…but I think killer believes if you then hot lap and run 14.4 your now a 14 second car.

O by the way I have a 14sec truck…14.76@90.63 with a 1.99 60’…haha

#15

A car is what ever its best time is, no way around it. Saying it has the potential for more is one thing. Yet it still is what it ran.

#16

No I think he thinks that if you have a great dyno sheet and 60-130 time, you can just say you’re a 10 second car (or whatever) even if you go to the strip and fall on your face.

Good stuff. 14.7 @ 90.6 is your baseline now. What are the hp and tq stats and weight on that thing?

#17

Well, I can’t argue if that is in-fact what he is saying. All I am saying is its silly to ask the question. Simple thing is, a car is as fast as its ran. You can say I’ve beaten 10 sec cars but you can’t claim to be one.
Another thing to be noted. I have seen and experienced two cars. The situation was this, the supercharged RT/10 was faster at the 1/4 strip but on the street the 69 camaro always won. I find the 1/4 to be just one way, a more fool proof way, but one way to measure. Things like that happen every day. Some cars perform better from a roll on, some come out of the whole better. Now, this isn’t to say the B5 can’t do well in the 1/4, it can, but at a cost. Hunter has gone through 1 transmissions and 3 rear ends in one season… Not everyone wants to do that. But that also doesn’t go to say 00killer had a car that should have ran 130sMPH, I say we give him another shot this summer and see what’s what. Let him figure out transmission stuff and shifting and go at it.

#18

^^^everyone has given him another shot. Nobody is saying he’s a 12 second shitbox and that’s the end of it. However he’s also not a 10 second @ 140-150 car (he posted that) until he actually runs that.

Your post about the strip vs. the street is a valid one, however 2 things wrong with that

  1. we all drive AWD Audis and are comparing AWD Audis which are historically very consistent at the dragstrip, unlike RWD cars where you can destroy your time with a poor launch

  2. you compared two different platforms (RT/10 and Camaro) from two different automakers to make your point. Gearing, traction, powerband, tire size, transmissions etc. are all different and huge variables. We are not talking about that. We are talking about comparing B5 S4 01E to B5 S4 01E. There should not be these vicious disconnects. If the 60-130 car is really well tuned and well sorted it should be able to deliver a quarter mile pass within a couple of tenths and one or so MPH of a great driver. When it’s off by 10-15 tenths and 10-15 MPH from what we’d ‘expect’ (based on power, weight etc) there’s something else going on.

#19

I am NOT saying a 500WHP car is a 10sec car.

This is where you get confused.

I am saying a 500WHP car is capable of being a 10sec car.

SO in fact you are proving my point for me Saki, thanks!

#20

I understand that, and I agree. But I also believe him when he said he had shifting problems and I know how that can hurt MPH and ET. When I took my K04 car to the track and missed 2 gears it was 6MPH slower than my best run. Now you will argue he still wouldn’t be a 140MPH car, but I think he could get there. He isn’t there, but I think with track conditions and good run with a car that isn’t hot.
With that said the car is a 12 sec car at 128. That’s it.