2014 B8.5 S4's...

B8 S4
#1

Seems like the 2014 cars are struggling even when tuned either APR and GIAC… I’ve been helping Skywagon with logs and such after his totally modded(tuned, pulley, headers, intake, cps, exhaust, etc) only went 12.7 at like 107-108… Now there is a guy who went 13.6 with GIAC tune and mods…

The logs are just downright sad from skywagon and I pm’d the GIAC guy so hopefully he’ll share so I can compare… Skywagon’s timing is just down right pathetic and it still pulls across his runs to the tune of 4+ degrees… car shifts at 6-6300 RPM’s so that can’t be helping and is probably killing him but now that the GIAC car is running so bad I’m wondering what else could be going on, especially since he ran a 13.6. I know it’s summer and hot out but the car should do better than that stock even in 90 degree temps… IAT’s on skywagons car aren’t that bad, there not great like I see in the fall but they’re decent…

I know Pete’s dad and Doug have proved the 13’s are capable of some pretty awesome times but I haven’t seen a 14 run anything decent so I’m wondering if Audi did something different and it’s making the tunes not perform so well… Would love to hear from Arin or Austin on this but I doubt that will happen… Anyway, wanted to see what others thought… I’ll post again after I get the GIAC logs and will glad shar ethe APR logs with anyone to get their thoughts… I’ll send them to Tsivas to see what he thinks…

Thoughts?

#2

Hmm interesting thoughts, I know someone else with a 2014 who was really disappointed with his APR stg 2 flash. I believe he ran 12.7, but chalked it up to the CEL issue http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/594874-P310b-low-fuel-pressure-code. Another point to note is these are all DSG’s, maybe just a coincidence.

I’ve been pretty lazy about logging and making it out to the drag strip for some more 2013 stage 2 data. Will try to get that done asap 8)

#3

Interesting… Hadn’t seen that one… I just got the GIAC files unfortunately, he didn’t hit turbo and group by so the logs are pretty much useless and he logged some incorrect fields… I sent him a file of what to log and how to check turbo and uds so hopefully he can take some and I’ll review…

I don’t think the 13’s have an issue as both Pete’s dad and Doug proved it seems it’s just the 14’s for some reason which I find interesting… Wondering if Audi did something to prevent the tunes from being effective and the tuners need to figure out? Shame if the car is dummbed down and can’t be figured out?

#4

can you explain what timing being pathetic means? Also pulling 4 degrees in the dead of summer isn’t a surprise.

p.s. isn’t the stock record held by a 14?

#5

Saki, he averaged barely 10 degrees during WOT runs which I think were all roughly 1-3 gear runs… At the same time he averaged pulling 1.0 - 1.5 degrees… His peak timing during the runs was 15ish degrees but mostly 13-14, while the car is also pulling upwards of 4 degrees and almost 5 degrees in some cases and is pulling timing on nearly all data points across his runs on the two cylinders he measured… I have no idea if a stock 14 holds the record haven’t been online as much so I may have missed it… Are we talking about the salesman from Canada? that was a 2013 wasn’t it? I’ll hopefully be able to tell more once I get the GIAC logs as I know the early shifting is killing the APR cars… I also understand the effects of heat probably better than most and skywagon has the CPS and his average IAT wasn’t bad… Now I’m sure the moist air going into the intake isn’t helping but there is something else more going on… Maybe I’m crazy in my old age, who knows… lol Will see what Tsivas thinks…

#6

those are very strange parameters.

you’re talking requested timing, right? i.e. 10 degrees…and peak 15ish…mostly 13-14. That’s the requested?

I was referring to the guy from Quebec, yes.

#7

Ya ShusterS4’s car is a 2013 DSG.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/400241-Official-1-4th-Quarter-Mile-Drag-Strip-Times?p=9748446&viewfull=1#post9748446

Would be interesting if Audi did something to the 2014 ECUs.

#8

The original B8 ECUs were resistant to parameter changes I believe but the companies overcame it after a while.

#9

Could this perhaps be temperature related? This time of year with more extreme heat conditions seems to have an issue for all cars. Possibly this could effect the 3.0 more?

#10

Still doesn’t seem right. There are 2010-2013 cars that ran significantly better in hot conditions.

#11

You could be on to something. GIAC still hasn’t released the stage II v2 tune for the 2014 even though the 2013 has been out for sometime now. Austin made a comment about it on AZ that they basically had to take a totally different approach/path to get the same power on the 2014.

Really interested in your views on the logs when you get them. Itching to pull the trigger with the summer sales going on, but really torn on which to go with given that major players seem pretty equivalent in terms of quality.

#12

Saki, No, I am referencing ingnition angle; actual not requested… I think these new 14 ecu’s are different and the tuners haven’t really figured them out… If this is the best they are going to do, ouch!

Hyden, No doubt heat plays a role but not to the extent these cars are running… The real high heat and humidity usually cost me a tenth or two at worst, and skywagon has the cps also… The GIAC car doesn’t but he is running 13.6… Heck my car did 12.9-13.0 consistenly in 90 degree heat stock!

mmmkam, Well I’d like to be able to share some news on the GIAC logs but I’m really dissappointed in what happened to this person… He doesn’t have a cable and went to AWE and they logged for him… However, they didn’t use tubro mode nor group by so the sampling rate is like 2 seconds per sample… On top of that the highest accelerator position is 79, vs where it should be when going WOT at 94! There was no bypass, timing was very low like skywagons, not a sinlge MAF reading over 1,000, and IAT’s were very high in the 70s! So IMO you can’t tell anything from these logs, yet they told him his car was fine… He did mention they contacted GIAC and had the car in the back so other things may have been checked but the logs they sent him are pretty much meaningless… I was dissappointed when he sent them to me especially with a good company like AWE performing them… Also, so no one calls me a hater I’d say the same thing if these were produced by APR and like I said maybe they have other ways to test? I think he is going to have his car flashed back to stock…

#13

how do you see actual vs. requested? I thought ‘angle’ was just the requested parameter. You subtract the pull to show actual.

i.e. on my stock RS4 tune at say 7600 RPM it shows 31 degrees as ‘ignition timing angle’ and then it shows 3 degrees pulled on cyl 1, 3 on 4, 2 on cylinder 1 and 2 on cylinder 2, so really I’m at around 28-29 net timing.

That’s how I understood it.

Better yet, here’s an actual log…so 31.5 requested at 7680 and between 1.5 and 4 pulled. So net out around 27.5 to 29 made.

http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/729968961.jpg

#14

Saki, I think we are saying the same just different terms… On the B8 it’s called “ignition angle;actual”, but to your point I think you have to subtract the retard to get true actual… IE if the ignition angle; actual value is 15 and the IGA_AD_1_KNK_[0] is 3 than the timing is really 12. So I guess technically it’s requested and if retard is 0 it’s actual but if there is a retard value it’s actual minus retard… I think there is a “requested” field but I’d have to look… That’s my understanding… Maybe J, Tsivas, etc. can chime in to correct me…

#15

If that’s true then the parameters are super weird. 15 degrees on an aftermarket tune ? Wtf

I get that the boosted cars are a good 10 degrees less than NA cars but that’s still super low.

#16

Saki, Yep and it didn’t hit 15+ much at all and these were good logs with lots of data points… Mostly in the upper RPM’s(if you call it that since the car shifts at 6300 and less) were 12-14… Also, if it did hit that high it had timing retard… The highest he saw under WOT with no timing pull was 14.x

Here is another thread with a guy that had a 2014 and it ran shitty so he went back to stock… IMO more proof something is up with the 14’s… The OP issue is probably him being in stock mode… I don’t get people who mod these cars and spend thousands but won’t/don’t buy a vagcom and learn to understand WTF their car is doing…

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/604592-APR-stage-2-problems?p=9893521&viewfull=1#post9893521

Also, nice of Mr. Saxon to post PSU’s log file from AWE… I’m sure he asked him if that was ok… That is the same log as I had and posted comments on… Funny he still hasn’t posted his logs…

#17

I don’t get the whole program switching thing…how do people screw that up? Put it in 93 and leave it forever. if you’re one of the 2% of guys who like to use race gas sometimes, learn how to use the frigging thing…but otherwise, program switching is kind of over-rated. Set 93 and forget it (or whatever your DD fuel is).

The RS4 guys are all mad at APR for not including program switching on the RS4 tune. Really guys? Who the fuck cares? How many NA RS4 owners are out there running race fuel, ever? There’s like 11 of us who have gone to the dragstrip. What are you going to do…go to a track day and run 3 thirty minute sessions on 110 octane at $12 a gallon? No, you’re going to be on 93 99.999999999% of the time, and the rare time you do want some race gas, just throw in some race gas and the 93 tune will benefit.

It’s very strange this obsession with the gizmo switching. Just drive your fucking cars! (that’s addressed to the grand majority of people who will in fact never use a race file)

#18

Split the hansel stuff into its own thread to keep this about the 2014 B8.5s.

#19

Good thread on AZ about this
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/608123-PSA-2014-B8-5-DSG-STOCK-tune-vs-APR-Stage-1-vs-APR-Stage-2-%28with-documentation%29

[QUOTE=EuroWhip;9957677]For the community, trolls gtfo [evilsmile]

This is for a 2014 B8.5 DSG…keep that in mind when looking at the numbers and images, as you may or may not know the DSG short shifts (until they figure out the DSG tune), giving lower dyno numbers…

So, it basically breaks down like this for those who want the cliffsnotes version [:D] :

  • All data accumulated using a VBOX Motorsport Performance Box
  • All runs using launch control to for consistency
  • S4 weighed prior to runs to determine actual weight, with full tank of fuel (car 3920lb, with both driver and passenger 4440lb)

STOCK: *91 octane
0-60 4.955
1/4 13.184
HP: 300.1
Torque: 293.3

APR Stage 1 *91 octane
0-60 4.441
1/4 12.693
HP: 337.9
Torque: 330.1

APR Stage 2 *91 octane
0-60 4.336
1/4 12.648
HP: (not dyno’d yet)
Torque: (not dyno’d yet)

Dyno Results [s4]

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/money_shot1.jpg

Stock 0-60

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Stock_0-60.jpg

Stock 1/4 mile

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Stock_1:4_mile.jpg

APR Stage 1 0-60

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/medium/APR_Stage_1_-_0-60.jpg

APR Stage 1 1/4 mile

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/medium/APR_Stage_1_-_1:4_mile.jpg

APR Stage 2 0-60

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/medium/APR_Stage_2_-_0-60.jpg

APR Stage 2 1/4 mile

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/medium/APR_Stage_2_-_1:4_mile.jpg

Weight

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/medium/scales.JPG

Enjoy and hope this helps those looking at tunes! [wrench] [wrench] [wrench]
[/quote]

#20

Is that from a real VBOX? I like that output. Wonder if the PBOX can do it.