A slight judder since fitting JHM LWFW

A5/S5/RS5
#1

It’s been awhile since I spoke last of the judder I’m getting reason being i was trying to get some miles on the car to see if it would improve the judder.
For those who don’t know I had JHM LWFW fitted about 5 maybe 6 months ago my car was fine to begin with then after 2 weeks it was juddering a lot but only when i let off the brake with no throttle as soon as i touched the throttle it disapears, the judder was enough to make the engine rock and the exhaust to knock quite a bit I also noticed the front wheels would move back and fourth ?

After taking it to a transmission specialist we decided to replace the clutches and at the same time fitted the RS6 flex plate. The judder was better but still there only when letting off the brake pedal with no throttle ? The wheels moving however had stopped ?

Then very shortly after I had clutch 1 problems car was banging hard when at a stand still kicking me in the back and car would not move forward with my foot on the throttle then it would all of a sudden leap forward with no warning.
It turned out to be the clutch pressure seloniod on clutch 1. So i brought a DL501 Repair kit and had the full kit fitted which was good as I now had the Gen 3 kit installed. Now i thought that maybe this was the underlying issue and would solve my juddering it did not :cry:

After talking to @Ape_Factory i tried doing a clutch adaptation via VCDS it completed successfully but it took a long time to complete, I’ve done the adaptation before a few times but it never took this long before ? How ever it did work and finish correctly, the judder was better but still there enough to still make the exhaust knock and rattle and the engine to rock very slight ?
I have tried everything to resolve this issue to no effect and it is driving me crazy !!

I’ve noticed if I just touch the throttle as the clutch is clamping up it is better with hardly no judder. I’ve also noticed that from a stand still if I let off the brake with no throttle it will judder until the clutch clamps up fully and then the judder stops car will be still moving but with no throttle ?
I wonder if the clutch pressure seloniod was on its way out for sometime and has maybe not allowed the tcu tune to not flash properly ? I’m just throwing that out there as a possibility??

It seems its only when the clutch is engaging I get the judder it’s enough to make the engine rock slightly and that makes the exhaust knock/ rattle very slightly ? I’ve also noticed it does not do it when the car is cold and it gets worse as the car gets warmer ?

The judder has got better and better with everything i have done including the last adaptation but it is still there and spoils it for me as apart from this the car is running great gear changes are super smooth and it’s feeling very fast !

I have found someone else with the same issue on the other forum that has got the same problem down to it starting after having the LWFW fitted for 2 weeks from what he has said are problem are identical !
He is the only other person I know who has this issue, he has the JHM stage 2 tune and the LWFW fitted he also has 034 engine mounts which I don’t have. Unfortunately his been working a lot to do anything with his car.

I am out of ideas as to why my car is doing this, as many people have the LWFW and have no issue at all.
I’ve asked JHM V10 Tech Support to maybe let me re-flash just to see if this improves the judder or to try upping the clutch pressure slightly or to adjust the rpm to say 900rpm but only when the clutch is engaging ? But as of yet have had no response ??
I know @Ape_Factory is now a dealer for JHM so maybe if I ask nicely he could have a word with them about this problem and see if he can get an answer ? Please if you don’t mind buddy ?

#2

Out of curiosity, if you turn your a/c on, does the judder go away?

Was going to say check motor mounts but if the other guy already has 034’s and same problem, that’s definitely not it.

I just did a clutch adaptation on Sunday, just to do it, as I’ve never done it. Like you, took forever. In fact, it’s still adapting. I drove for over two hours in d and S mode and it’s only midway through the cycle. The good news it’ll continue to adapt as I drive it. Appears you don’t have to do it all at once! This is good news as I have two Audi driving events the next two Sundays. So plenty of drive time for once!

My only theory is your driveline just has more lash than most for some reason. Is Cory the other guy? I really need to get one installed so I can experience any potential issues first hand, LOL.

And of course Steve, anything for you! Give me a few days to get a response. But know that it’s probably something with your car since other cars are not experiencing the same issue (except for one other person). But try the a/c thing as that raises my idle to 900 when on.

I do know that driveline and gear lash is going to vary by car as they’re all just machines and built into a tolerance range.

#3

I have my air con on most of the time and my rpm still sits below 900rpm just above 8500rpm ? It also still judders.

I also thought it could be engine mounts but when the other guy said he has 034’s then maybe not ? But my engine does move more than it ever used to but only ever since this juddering happened ?

The adaptation does take for ever I did know you can leave it to complete itself but I wanted to get it done I was driving for 4 odd hours in the end lol

Not sure of the guys name his on there as adaydreams from Colorado ?

Thank you Michel you are very good to me :blush:
I know it maybe just my car as there are no others bar one other, but I’m thinking and I’ve asked JHMV10 if they can not just adjust mine so it works on my car a one off so to speak ? As you say they are all machine built with in a tolerance range so can be slightly different from car to car ? Something like the clamping pressure ? Or even to up the rpm just a little to take that initial judder out as the clutch engages ? I do really think that could work from driving it and would not have any effect to the way the car drives as long as the rpm is not to high.

Another thing is I’ve noticed if I have extra weight in the car like an extra 2/3 people the judder is not as bad. This tune is for an RS5 mine is a RS4 it’s lighter than the RS5 and because of this JHMV10 had to adjust many things to do with the shifting sequences etc so might it be I need a small adjustment to rectify the judder ? Again just putting it out there as a possibility but a good possibility ?

Please put these things to them for me as I do think it could be tweaked to resolve this, even if it’s just for my car as it’s an RS4 and not a RS5 so things might be slightly different even from RS5 to RS5 tolerance ranges can be different !

#4

Hey there, adaydreams here, aka Adam Day. I am the “onle other guy” that is having the same issue as Steve. My car is a 2014 cabriolet and I have about 400lbs extra weight so I don’t think the weight difference is the X factor. Steve, I didn’t realize that you had a RS4!

Also, small side note, Michel, I tried joining the Facebook group a couple of days ago and haven’t heard back.

Steve, I was hoping that your tune might eliminate the judder but apparently not! I did take The car to two mechanics and neither of them could find that anything was installed incorrect, e.g. the lwfw, etc. I do have the 034 inserts (and RMR cooler and cross bar😉).

About a month ago I had a warning light come on when I was driving to the airport. When I looked up what it means I saw two possibilities, sports differential malfunction or sports differential temperature too high. I went ahead and drove to the airport and when I returned the warning light wasn’t on and hasn’t returned since I just ordered the Ross Tech VCDS and will see what it says once I receive it. I don’t think that Steve has had the same warning light come on and the judder has been around for quite some time prior.

Michel, any help would be appreciated as this judder is definitely annoying, but I also I worry that it could be a sign of something catastrophic in the future.

Thanks!

#5

Hey Adam,

Nice to see you on here :blush: At last I am not the only one anymore :hugs: .

It is so annoying this judder mine is better since doing the clutch plates and the mech repair kit and an adaptation of the clutches but it’s still there and really spoils it, as other wise the car is running ace and is feeling super quick as of late now things are bedding in the more I use it.

I have no codes and no rear diff codes on the VCDS. I’ve also changes ATF and MTF fuilds on my diff twice now in the last 1000 miles only as I changed it then the guy doing the clutches changed it again forgetting I’d told him I’d already done it :man_facepalming:

I have really pushed my car to the max over the last week or so ( drove it like I stole it ) and it has not missed a beat at all so i dont think anything is going to go wrong with our cars as it would of done !

I really want solve this issue like you and have said even if they have to adjust something on are mapping as a one off then i m willing to do that ?

#6

Lol, glad to see you on here too!
Happy to hear that you are enjoying the new improvements on your car…I am considering the jhm headers(which I think you now have?) but not Catless as I am worried about passing the emissions test I will have to do in 2022. Also, it’s good to know that your car has taken a beating with no issues…I drive pretty aggressively on the regular and have anything go wrong except for that one warning light that came on that hasn’t returned since…I will let you no what the vcds says when I get it.

I am on a drive now, stopped for a bite to eat, and checked the juddering with a/c in and off and no difference…and the judder does seem to be less intense when the car is colder, but that didn’t seem to be the case before for me. I’ll see how bad it is as the trip progresses.

Hopefully JHM will work with us on remapping…I love driving this car, but this judder and wheel jerking just slightly spoils the the fun of it!

#7

Adam, besides the judder I would have your rear diff serviced soon due to the fault codes you had. A RS5 diff is expensive, not as common as the S4/S5 Sport Diff.

1 Like
#8

Thanks hahnmgh63!

Do you know if this service is included with the 55k service? They change the transmission fluid, but is that equivalent? I had this done Laayoune august…if this is the same thing would you suggest I do it again?
TIA

#9

For you both, what sort of mileage have you put on the RS5 with the flywheel?

I’ve put on less than 1000kms, but no issues thus far.

I do have a recurring “very small leak” code since reassembly and now a small coolant leak, so back to Audi on Monday for diagnosis and repair.

Car running VERY strong though!

1 Like
#10

I’ve done at least 3000 miles maybe more now with the lwfw in place just not many with new clutch plates in say 400 ish miles.

Love the video dude she’s looks sweet as :+1:

#11

I know over here in the U.k both ATF & MTF should be done every 40k. However from what I read not all Audi centres do it unless you ask for whatever reason. Your best ringing Audi to find out if it’s been done or not.

I think 40k is to long and do mine every 20k as we push our cars hard and have them tuned. It’s better to do it more than less then for me I have peace of mind knowing it’s in good health.

#12

For RS5 S-Tronic in N. America Audi say:
ATF - 35k then every 40k
MTF - 15K then every 20k
So the MTF should be done at the 55k service.
I would consider these minimums, Audi just need the car to get through warranty and don’t want you to keep the car forever. I’d almost half the services. I’d never got 10k (miles) on an oil change for the RS5, revving the engine to 8000rpm’s is a lot of shear on an oil. I’ve seen a lot of lower quality Synthetics (Mobil 1) done by 5~6k in an oil analysis in other engines, I definitely wouldn’t push it in the RS5.
https://maintenance.audiusa.com/#/search

1 Like
#13

I always change oil every 5k using ester fully synthetic oil :+1:

#14

Thx for the input All!

I have put ~4000 miles on it since installing the LFW, and like Steve said, the judders and wheel jerks started about two weeks after the install. Steve has remedied the wheel jerks, but not the juddering.

I checked and they did the MTF oil at the 55k service…I did have to request it.

At the 35k service, which was performed right before I purchased the car, they performed the following related to the transmission and the rear sport differential on top of the MTF oil change. This same process happens at 75k (thanks for the link @hahnmgh63]:

  • S tronic transmission: Change fluid and filter element for clutch hydraulics
  • Rear sport differential: Change ATF for clutch hydraulics
  • Rear sport differential: Change differential oil

So maybe I should have the above three things done asap?

Side note, I will take your advise and change the oil every 5k instead of 10k. I have been using Motul 8100 X-clean

#15

I, for peace of mind, had ALL the fluids replaced when I had the JHM flywheel and headers installed.

Both ATF/MTF transmission fluid, differential fluid, new coolant, new engine oil and AC recharge. Everything but the brake fluid for peace of mind.

Agreed. I do everything in half the time the dealer interval recommends, and I actually had the 55k transmission service done last year, and the year before that new fluid from the RMR cooler. I don’t beat on the car, but I do drive it spirited, after it’s fully warmed up and have many visits near 8000rpm.

Overkill? Probably. But I want to keep this car forever if possible.

1 Like
#16

I want this car to last forever as well, I’m convinced, scheduling asap!

Now this whole juddering thing…

#17

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HSsLF8sxjB1RS1Kdi1wdO255xnaJRpa-/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W6bSXsWBkVPAPjv5Hu6CNGg4s2Qy_kaV/view?usp=drivesdk

I took a couple of videos in case anyone is interested…

Short video is of the sound of the new lwfw when I am parked. Mechanic stated that was not necessarily an abnormal sound fir a lwfw.

Longer video is of the juddering.

Hopefully the link worked…I don’t have a YouTube channel and wasn’t sure how to post.

#18

Link won’t work for me ? But it did say that my google drive will ask you for permission to view it ? So if you get anything from an email roccothe********@ gmail.com it’s me !

I’m also still waiting for a reply from JHM V10 Tech Support about this judder @Ape_Factory has been trying to get them to email me but no luck as of yet ! Apparently JHM has a few suggestions on things we can try or do to resolve this issue ? Michel did speak to JHM personally so i am not sure what the suggestions are ??

I’m convinced that a little play with either the ecu/ tcu could get the judder under control or good enough to live with ?

People are saying it could be gear slop in the transmission but I’m not seeing that, reason being is like you for the first 2 weeks this judder was not evident with the lwfw fitted it was perfect and only started 2 weeks after being fitted ? It’s just so confusing to what this could be ? Mine is better with everything I’ve done but not enough to get rid of this annoying judder !:angry::man_facepalming:

#19

Hey Steve, just granted you access, but that was fir the short video… the other one has the judder. When upon get a chance, request the other one and I will get you access. Hopefully that works!

Also are you on the Facebook group? I just joined and saw a person ask, April 19, if anyone else has a juddering issue like we do…I asked him if he has the lwfw and am awaiting a response.

#20

That’s great thanks I got the first video so I’ll do the other now :+1:

No I’m not on Facebook I’m afraid but that’s very interesting let’s hope in a way he has the lwfw as the more people we have the more JHM has to help us sort this !!