Alignment off, chirping, ate a tire, now what?

B6/7 S4/RS4
#1

I’ve been having a strange problem in my B6 S4 6 Speed, 19" wheels, 235/45/19 tires, 97k miles, for about 10 days. At first, the alignment was off, and the car would pull to the right. I drove it like this because my alignment shop was booked out for a week. Then it developed a chirping noise that was dependent on speed. No change when brakes applied, clutch depressed, anything like that. A very audible chirp. Then I was driving yesterday, and I heard a clunk, the chirping was gone, and the alignment was back to normal.

I took the wheel off yesterday morning to check it out. The inner surface of the tire had been contacting on the control arm, and has rubbed my tire to the threads. No burst, thankfully. The control arm has worn down a bit from the contact. It looks like the upper control arm bushings have gone too.

I did find that the inner CV boot has torn, so I’ll have to replace that. What else could be causing this problem? Could it be bad control arms? Any other ideas?

Baffled here. Thanks for the help.

Matt

#2

Hello Matt always nice to see more members.

I wouldn’t know 100% what the issue could have been without maybe seeing pictures. Do the rims require spacers.

What might be helpful here is what happened just before the alignment was off. Did the rims cause this. I would assume the alignment didn’t just go out ofalignment . Or is that what your saying.

If it was me I would double check all the bolts and nuts. Take off the other side and see what might stand out as different. Check the suspension bolts from up top.

#3

Check the Upper Control Arms, on the inboard (Where it mounts to the chassis) end. I’ve worked on a few A4 Audis and these tend to be the first to fail, they will look ok at first glance, but get in there with a torch and you may find the rubber where the bolt goes through has failed. This would cause the wheel to suddenly increase it’s negative camber, possibly causing the tyre to foul on the Upper Arms (Outboard End).

#4

By torch, he means flashlight. Those Brits you know.

#5

;D ;D ;D

LOL…

#6

Didn’t want him going after it with a smoke wrench.

#7

Haha

I’ll have to put some translations up :

English to US… LOL.

Boot = Trunk
Bonnet = Hood
Aluminium = Aluminum
Wing = Fender
Exhaust Manifold = Headers
Torch = Flashlite
Spanner = Wrench

Just as well I lived in CA for 12 years, otherwise I’d be lost on here… LOL.

#8

Splendid job chap. Good on you. Going to be in the Peaks District (Monyash) from 20 October to 24 October. Are you anywhere close? Won’t have my Avant, but would love to buy you a pint or two.

#9

Hey glad you saw my reply on fourtitude and made your way over here. As I said, these guys know their shit!

#10

Thanks for the help guys. And for the British lessons. I did think it was a little odd to put a torch to it - usually that’s 'y last resort. Ha ha.

I’ve had these same wheels on for the last 4 years, and they had a slight clearance issue with the 245/35/19s (really tight), but it hasn’t touched until now. I suspect the upper control arm bushings. When I looked close at them, the center seemed to be severed from the outer rubber slightly. Are there any other ways to check?

Working on a photo of it…

#11

Jim has a good point and I would think after you put up a picture that that will tell us more.

#12

http://www.mattophoto.net/img/s6/v147/p1006174781-4.jpg

http://www.mattophoto.net/img/s12/v179/p750832784-4.jpg

#13

Welcome Matt.

That tire size seems off. Most people run a 235/35/R19 with 19 inch wheels on B6/7 S4s. Also from the picture that you posted the sidewall seems like a 35 so it must have been a typo.

Just wondering, what wheels are you running? Do you know the width and offset by chance? I just want to get an idea to see if you need spacers.

With that many miles it is very likely that your control arms are worn out. A easy way to check is jack up the front and put it on jack stands, take the front wheels off, start the engine and turn the steering wheel all the way to one side, then turn off the engine, and go look at the control arm bushings. Then start the engine and turn the steering wheel all the way to the other side, turn off the engine, and go look at the control arm bushings again. If the middle of the bushings is very cracked and/or torn then the bushings are worn out.

There are a bunch of places that sell control arm kits like 034 Motorsport, FCPEURO, and others. I have installed kits from both 034 Motorsport and FCP. The 034 Motorsport kit has slightly nicer bushings but costs more.

On the Brit translations, I almost died of laughter the first time that a British friend of mine asked for a rubber. Rubber = Eraser

#14

Looks like it is your top inner bushings that have given up the ghost as this causes the wheel to fall into Negative Camber, resulting in the top of the tyre fouling the upper arms.

Rubber = Eraser… What could you mean…LOL.

We have one that works the other way that we always fall about laughing when we hear it…

Fanny Pack… Haaaa Haaaaa. I won’t go into the translation but I’m sure you can guess what we would be referring too if we mentioned that.

It’s a strange world… LOL.

#15

Now, I could be mistaken here…and hopefully this makes sense.

So your hub is attatched to the spindle which is attatched to the upper control arms. So if the arms are bad, wouldn’t the spindle/hub move as one unit with the bad bushings? It seems odd to me that the tire would be touching the upright if he had bad UCA’s. I’ve had UCA’s give up the ghost and never had an issue with alignment (pulling) or tire rubbing, just clunking going over bumps. In addition, I would think that your control arms would have to be so far past worn out to introduce that much camber that they would just be flopping around on the bolts.

The thing that stands out to me is that you said it was dependent on speed. If it were control arms it would happening under braking as well. If it were me, I would be checking out your hub and bearings.

#16

Jim, yeah it is a strange world. There are a few things that get lost in translation between the different cultures.

Quadfreak, it is possible that the wheel bearing has play but usually it would make a ton of noise all the time by that point. It is easy enough to check. Just jack up the front and rock the tire in and out from the top and bottom. I would still like to rule out the tire size and wheel size/offset first.

#17

I agree, jacking the car and shaking the tire will give you a good indication of what is wrong. I guess what has me hung up is that it is dependent on speed and does not do it under braking.

If it was the wrong size tire (too tall sidewall) I am inclined to think that it would do it under braking as the suspension will induce a small amount of camber when compressed.

Idk I’m just thinking out loud here.

#18

You are right, they are 35 series sidewalls, on a 245 goodyear eagle gt tire. They have fit without incident for the last few years. I’m not sure what the offset is on the wheels - can check that out when I pull the wheel off this weekend. They are RS4 replica wheels, not great quality, and I’m the second owner of them. They are fairly wide, so I think spacers would cause them to contact the fenders.

I will do as you say with the jacking up and turning to check the bushings. Quadfreak - I was thinking the same thing, that the whole assembly should move as one, in parallel with the vertical member. Somehow the bushings may have stayed bound and allowed it to pull it out of alignment enough to touch that member and contact the tire, causing the chirping sound (it sounded like a rubbery squeak). Just odd that it stayed that way for a weeks worth of driving.

Should I replace the whole control arm setup while I’m in there? The lowers seem difficult to get to.

#19

I would inspect each control arm and if they are not cracked just leave them alone.

#20

Are there any benefits to doing polyurethane bushings, or should I go with standard replacements? Are the existing bushings difficult to press out, making it easier to replace the whole upper arms?

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_S4--V8/ES2702914/

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B6_S4--V8/Suspension/Control_Arm/Front/ES2651917/