Another APR TVSr1740 kit blowing an engine. Fried piston rings.

B6/7 S4/RS4
#1

http://www.audiclubsa.org.za/cgi-bin/yabb25/YaBB.pl?num=1428549092

and the analysis from his shop

[quote]Once the heads were removed we could see more and get a better idea of the actual damage. The damage were major. First we noticed the damaged o-ring on the high pressure fuel pump.The o-ring were partially melted due to either excessive heat or was damaged when fitted. Upon inspection its visibly clear that the left bank suffered more damage than the right. Piston no 1 were running very lean and combustion abnormality associated with abnormal high combustion temperatures occurred in this cylinder. The aluminium on the head was burnt clean and the piston surface was also burnt clean, the aluminium suffered flame erosion. This corresponds with the spark plug condition of cylinder no. 1.

Piston no.2 however suffered far more damage than cylinder no.1. This piston suffered to the point where the rings can be seen and the rings got burnt through. Also the skirt of the piston broke off. The cylinder side wall also known as the sleeve got burnt and damaged in the process. The cylinder head material also turned porous in this cylinder. Failure of this cylinder is due to very lean fuel mixtures combined with boost (compressed air). Flame erosion destroyed the components in this cylinder.
[/quote]

#2

C’mon now. Change that title…it’s a stretch.

This sounds like installer error from the jump. Even the OP alluded to it (in the part you failed to quote):

[quote]IF logs was pulled from ECU,s the lambda sensors would pick up that the air fuel(AFR) mixtures is too lean. We also explained to the assessor that the amount of fuel that were deducted from the UNICHIP and the amount of fuel added with the loaded software could cancel each other out. We also explained to the assessor would logs be taken from the car like explained the fitment centre definitely would pick up that something was wrong with the fuel mixture.

We said to the assessor according to our findings it is negligence from the fitment centre who failed to do the necessary safety checks on this vehicle. No vehicle should break in 120km from leaving a fitment centre and that this shows negligence from fitment center side. When a customer pays for a certain service and peace of mind like promised from these agents he expect the fitment centre to give him a car back that’s tested and safe to drive.
[/quote]

#3

Yea it sounds more like a installation error! That’s sucks!:frowning:

#4

Running too lean will kill any engine, sadly. Combustion temp can vastly exceed the melting point of the metals involved.

I’m not sure this kind of damage could be achieved on a fully stock car though. ME9 is pretty clever and with its protections fully intact I find it hard to imagine it would allow the kind of lean running and detonating you’d need to damage the pistons to this extent. Adding a SC will expedite the destruction process obviously.

#5

I’m with you JC. The OEM rs4 tune is going to add several amounts of safety features. From the ecu limited throttle to the fact that the ecu always adds fuel to protect itself. Seems like the car would go into limp mode well before anything would happen from a ecu standpoint. Sounds like there is more to the story. But it doesn’t look good

#6

[/quote]
so they’re saying that there were 2 tunes loaded at once…and the tunes were cancelling each other out?

Now THAT is a stretch. Sounds like a mechanic having a shot at another mechanic to me. Read the guy’s description…all he wants to do is intimate negligence

FYI that bit you posted is not by the OP, but is by his shop, referring to their competitor.

And for the record, this ‘negligent’ shop is the APR dealer. And were trained by APR on how to install that kit…and in fact had installed a few of those kits in the past, including installing this exact kit on both cars in discussion. So I’m not sure I am buying the ‘they forgot how to install a supercharger kit’ line.

#7

Does anyone else realize how ironic the installation error comments are?

When ever someone incorrectly installs or breaks-in a clutch and we ask about the install…we get fucking ridiculed. It doesn’t matter that thousands of people had no issues installing the clutch. Same goes for rotors or LWCP…thousands of people have installed those on their back in a garage and put 10s of thousands of miles on them.

But people will cling to this being “install error” and not the actual APR 1740 kit

It’s odd though that GRD tuning apparently installed the kit wrong…two or three times?, Meem and Ben installed the kit wrong, that other Cali guy installed the kit wrong?..

Do you see how it starts to make a lot less sense when there are probably 20 running kits out there and 25% of them have failed?

#8

[quote=“sakimano,post:6,topic:7383”]
Did the car have a (unichip) piggyback perhaps? If it did, I can’t imagine why you’d leave that in place when doing this install. It’s just asking for issues.

It wouldn’t explain though why one side of the engine bore the brunt of it, and why that side had a HPFP o-ring issue.

Either way they don’t sound particularly proficient in this field.

#9

actually the GRD kit was put on the car by APR themselves.

I like how FT is saying that GRD has their car and it’s now fine. GRD’s car was at APR for a year, and had the engine blown at least twice. It was put on display at the APR BBQ, but with the hood closed. There was no engine in the engine bay. The front suspension had a 5 inch gap because of the lack of weight lol

FT is hilarious.

#10

I was going to post this up this afternoon but you beat me to it. Saw the thread on the zoo with the OP asking about reliability of the kit here:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/651344-APR-TVS1740-B7-RS4-Supercharger-kit-reliability-discussion

Sounds like lawyers got involved and the OP got an engine taken care of but APR gave him the run around and wasn’t willing to do a damn thing.

#11

APR did nothing and it sounds like the APR dealer did nothing. The guy’s insurance appeared to cover the repair. Is that right?

#12

[quote=“sakimano,post:6,topic:7383”]
Take a step back and realize that just because someone is “trained” on how to install the kit, doesn’t mean they know anything about troubleshooting… How much “training” do you think they really get?

This is exactly why it’s ironic…whether it’s a LWFW, clutch, rotor rings, it’s rained from the high heavens that the only possible reason it failed is installer error. Yet when there’s a vendor you have beef with, it’s the hardware 100% of the time…kinda convenient, no?

Allow me to illustrate what this thread sounds like to me, using pictures:

Michelin Tires wrecks another M3

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/BMW-M3-crash-1.jpg

Redline Water Wetter toasted another engine

http://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Audi-R8-engine-fire.jpg

Mobil 1 Synthetic destroys another engine

http://blog.1aauto.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/sludge_1.jpg

Carillo Rods destroy another motor

http://image.superchevy.com/f/71382330+w640+h640+q80+re0+cr1+st0/tbss-ls2-block-rod-bearing-failure.jpg

#13

Hahaha, who has beef?

I think APR is shady, but not before this last year!

I thought their kit and performance was awesome, we all congratulated APR…right here!

Then some of their kits had issues and no responsibility was taken…none. Their customer service sucks for the people who dropped $20k on one of their kits.

Look at it however you want, but all of these kits dropping is not a coincidence.
Hell even a shit show twin turbo kit hasn’t ate a motor yet.

#14

Just calling a spade a spade here…you know I’m right. :wink:

…and yes, that TT RS4 will probably shred its motor…I just hope it’s a rod out the side so I can buy the block.

#15

exactly…koolade seems to only remember the 5 posts per year he reads, and assumes everything else didn’t happen

let’s help him out…

http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=1520.0

#16

why do you keep saying that?

if you need an RS4 engine that has been grenaded, contact FlyingTomatoes on audizoo. He has purchased one or two over the last year, and may have produced a dead engine himself.

#17

[quote=“sakimano,post:15,topic:7383”]
Yup, help me out where you sht on APR’s 1320 since it’s release, then sht on the 1740 till they finally ran a pass you couldn’t refute… On top of that, you gave them a pretty smug hat’s off as well. Now it’s back to business as usual. Your thinly veiled agenda…never fails.

Every blown motor I’ve come across has been sent back as a core, is awaiting rebuild, or is outside the US. One of these days, I’ll get my hands on one.

#18

lol wut?

the APR 1320 kit was a fucking disaster. They sold 100 of them with a dyno sheet, but people were accelerating no faster than stock or barely modified RS4s. Why? Their tuner fucked up and the calibration sucked.

What’d they do then? They hired JHM’s tuner, and the cars ran great. At that point, all I did was support APR and the kit for making the changes and improvements. If you were to ever read RS246, you will see they called me an APR fanboy there for 3 years. Of course you’re clueless so you know none of this. Anyway, that was until APR acted like fucking morons and denied having outside help (despite it already being posted in Keith’s news release).

The 1740 kit did really well and they received loads of support all over the site. No idea what your agenda is, for that matter. I have none. I have a stock Rs4 with a used JHM exhaust. I like seeing the RS4 do well, noi matter the tuner. TTS did great and got support once they proved their concept. So did APR. So did JHM. So did GIAC on the B8 and they got loads of support. So did everyone who did it right. But not when it’s a douchebag car owner who is secretly compensated by the tuning company whose parts he is promoting (your boy ngng, or your new boy FT) or a company that is fucking up (APR, PES, whoever…even JHM who if you’ll recall everyone here slapped the shit out of online for horrendous service levels 4-5 years ago before they hired 8 new people to cover their workload better. Remember all of those ‘can’t get in touch with JHM…can’t make them take my money!’ threads? We all lambasted JHM, and I would do so publicly, as well as privately directly to Jason. Now they’re fantastic.).

Maybe if you get your head out of the clouds you’ll do some reading and be able to speak from an informed position. I think you’ve been sucking Corbett’s cock for too long and he’s started to ooze out of your keyboard.

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/sakimano/tempFileForShare_2015-05-20-15-44-37_zps7liekeek.jpg

#19

You’re not very good at it then. Just subscribe to that APR1740 kit thread, and you can follow the owners of the 1740 cars and ask them for their engines shoudl something go wrong at 16 psi. It will probably take a while to fry the rings, but you might get lucky. As I said, ask your boy FT. He was buying up RS4 engines all over the eastern seaboard last year.

I asked why you keep dropping hints that you want a blown engine. You’re obviously dying for someone to ask you what your plan is, so go ahead. Otherwise, quit fishing.

#20

Regular service has been resumed, like clockwork :smiley:

I think it should be obvious that something here wasn’t how it should have been. A car eating a piston (and a half) on bank 1 in the first 80 miles after a SC install isn’t the norm for APR cars.

So whatever caused this is likely separate from any long term reliability concerns that may exist with these (and other) kits. Whether it was an existing (but hidden) issue with the car or incompetence on behalf of the installer is purely speculation.

Still, how many RS4 SC installs would we imagine a dealer in South Africa has under their belt? Long distance thing and people not reading the manual properly has my vote if we’re guessing.