APR B7 RS4 Stage III TVS1740 Supercharger System breaks into the 10's!

B6/7 S4/RS4
#61

Eric the only thing I think you have wrong is that jhm isn’t looking to make this a competition. AMD is and seemed to be open about it but when jhm thrashed the standing record of 11.37 and went 11.1 on all stock fueling components they only posted the 11.34 time they didn’t want to create a competition but to show all kits are equal. Jhm made the run only after getting bashed by trolls.

I think to call the rs4 times at the track a competition is a bad idea. Performance should be important but the most important should be longevity and safety of the power on the stock motor. Not so much how fast you are or how much power but making great safe power. That has been the back bone for APR

#62

The contest we are all watching anyway is the pump gas, street trim time.

Eric, you’ve got your work cut out for you there still. Get some LW parts on the car, and a proper catback and see if you can beat JHM’s 11.12 @ 125. You guys were very close, so it shouldn’t be too hard.

If you beat that record, I think more and more customers will have their eyes opened even wider. Of course, if you do it with stock fuel pumps, I’ll be even more impressed lol.

Seriously though, that’s the benchmark the RS4 forums care most about.

Have a look here, have a look on quattrofail, and have a look on RS246 in the thread I started about your recent success. The theme? The buyers care about the street trim, pump gas times. Frankly the whole drag slicks and ripped interior thing is creating a contest that nobody really competes in in the Audi world. I get that it might be common in the EVO or Neon world, but here people buy $70,000 cars and want to drive them with 4 seats and street tires. The last time an RS4 ran with no interior, drag slicks and no exhaust was never. So you’re kind of first…but also last.

from RS246…from a collection of RS4 owners

[quote]Must have raised the rev limit to around what 8600? The tyre size will have an effect to. On race gas slicks and interior removed kind of makes the time irrelevant in my eyes now. None the less it does show good power. Their 11.2 passes on pump fuel are still strong
[/quote]

[quote]I am most intrrested in what my car can do as I drive it. Street tires, pump gas (euro/UK 99 octane or less), full interior
[/quote]

[quote]+1
[/quote]

#63

Well…not never

http://audi-motorsport-blog.blogspot.com/2012/09/worlds-fastest-audi-rs4-with-1100-hp-is.html

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cF23Pi540fI/UEkNO7QiGxI/AAAAAAAACtA/LqmEoaWzikQ/s1600/IMG_9565.jpg

Before anyone jumps my shit, I’m being funny…this is hardly an RS4

#64

haha AVUS SILVER FTW!

#65

After

#66

Funny thing is, that’s an APR Tuned car. It’s hilarious.

#67

After.

[quote=""]
Your boost pressure does not equate directly cylinder pressure, however it does effect your cylinder pressure. I can run 30psi of boost and generate less cylinder pressure than someone with an 8psi supercharger kit.

Without giving too much information… your static compression ratio (12.5:1) doesn’t correlate to your Dynamic compression ratio because you have your IVC event that bleeds dynamic compression. Your combustion event leads to the largest cylinder pressure during the four cycles and largely dictated by the volume of air in the chamber and your ignition advance. Study a BMEP or IMEP curve… it will give you an idea of the different pressures your cylinder sees and what parts of the stroke generate the highest pressure (combustion… as stated prior)

Your cylinder pressure during combustion can vary dramatically… for example if you reduce peak power 1% (through retarding the ignition advance) from MBT, it will approximately reduce peak cylinder pressure in half. If have you a significant knock event… you may double this cylinder pressure instead of reducing it at that engine load. So really the tune dictates which tune may generate more cylinder pressure. Having a larger cylinder pressure also doesn’t naturally suggest that you’ll make more torque/power… if you don’t generate the cylinder pressure at the right time after TDC.

Knock Events and excessive cylinder pressure lead to broken rings, broken ring lands, pushed head gaskets, rod bearing failures, cracked cylinders, etc. All bad things naturally… so we use sensors, dynos, and high speed datalogging equipment to accurately depict the state of combustion in the engine. With a strong understanding of engine fundamentals you can know precisely where you stand with respect to the knock limit of a particular octane.

Sakimano,

Rev limiter is at 8250, all calibrations, all runs.

Maybe you should make the pump gas record rules more clear. Is it full weight like we ran it? Or do we get to run lightweight anything… as long as it has seats and street tires and runs on 93? Would be nice to know… Also do you have the slip break down of JHM’s 11.12 run? I’d like to see how their car made it down the track… particularly their 60’ time.

With regards to your dis-taste for our 10.60 pass… I find it much easier to say you have THE fastest, than have to qualify your statement with exceptions. Just saying…

#68

Even in an extreme example 30 to 8 is inaccurate But i think we all get your example. The statement is equating the added cylinder pressure from boost alone. Boost pressure does relate to cylinder pressure its just not necessarily linear. Sure less boost with a bad tune isn’t safer then more boost less timing. With that said cylinder pressure is a bi product of power Added cfm with volume of air fuel etc. While sure its possible to have less cylinder pressure then x or y boost this isn’t to say this hp level or boost level is safe. I think that is the concern

Time will tell.

#69

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTAAhfTslo1AYSHliIkd78oe0-Ij6oUnoabwfbhUdTx8SIZ3SJm5A

Lol this actually made me think of a few interesting things somewhat related. YGPM R/TErnie

#70

Yes indeed. Way to go… You set a crazy benchmark that everyone is excited about, although you’re acting like a fucking asshole and trying to ruin that. Anyone ever tell you your people skills are shit? You should read our engineer thread.

When measured apples to apples, you’re slower mph than everyone but pes and are second fastest et. Way to go.

Its hardly a qualifying statement…nobody cares about stripped interior, drag radial, no cat back ricer style times. Maybe that shit is lauded on the fwd neon forum you cut your teeth on but in the audi scene most of us have a different benchmark system. Just helping u get up to speed since you’re new. I was trying to encourage you to beat JHMs pump gas time. I want to see an RS4 in the 10s on pump gas. That’s all.

As far as rules, there are none. I run the list here and we put virtually everything on.

Street trim as most consider it is an audi with front and rear seats and an exhaust on, as well as Street tires and on pump gas… Like we run on the street. If you run race gas, that’s cool. If you pull your back seats out, you’ll hear about it as Apr did 3 years ago when the 1320 kit ran 11.83 @ 116. If you pull your spare out, who cares.

Hey what do I know though.

Someone put it perfectly. 2 things

  1. If your customer were on the highway going home from work, and a mustang wanted to race him, is he going to yell out "OK WAIT… I HAVE TO PULL OVER… DUMP THE FUEL… PUT IN RACE GAS… PULL MY SEATS… AND SWAP MY TIRES FIRST!!! "

no, he is not. He is going to just race with 93 in the tank and street tires on and four seats in.

  1. If you were trying to sell the car would you sell it missing a cat back, back seat and passenger seats, on racing slicks? No, you would sell it with Street tires, with exhaust and all four seats.

If either of those things make sense, you will see where some people are coming from.

#71

Saki, you remind me of “sticky” in the bmw world. Kicked off every BMW forum so thus created his own. Now he can sit back on his computer and rack up 1000s of posts acting like he knows all and criticize all those that don’t agree with him. No one really likes him or respects him. The parallels are really very eerie.

As I mentioned before, I am not one for stripping interiors to put up a number, but that being said major kudos still needs to be given to APR for what they have accomplished and for being completely forthcoming about it. That was a lot of great information presented in the post by Arin. It was well thought out and well explained both in his post and the video. It really is exciting to see two great companies like APR and JHM bringing these thoroughly tested kits to market for the RS4.

#72

Kyuss I have to disagree. Both sides have made lots of sence. I think some see the competitive nature off coming.

I think this is where competition gets the worst of good company’s. If you ask me. Make a safe product test it and say here are your results. This is what people love about APR. The thought of saying.

Ok here is our stage 3. It ran x or y and we have a great product. Unless someone was faster then we do more. This is the APR stage 3. It’s impressive and you would believe it was safe. The commitment to a great product that is safe is better then a commitment to being the fastest. No one wants a broken car here.

#73

Thanks, good to hear. Who are you again? Oh yes the retard sent here to troll supercharger threads and spread bullshit about jhm. One of benny’s boys. Nice one.

Just to clarify for you, since you have a pea brain,

  1. I don’t have anything to do with this forum

  2. I didn’t have any problem with how Apr ran the car. I have a problem with the tuner with a smart mouth.

#74

Oh, you came from BMWs…now we get it.

This isn’t Saki’s forum #1, and he doesn’t ever pretend to know anything…go ahead, fact check him. #2 If you understood why he was ever banned from the other forums, you’d probably like the guy. He holds companies and bullshitters accountable…IMO if you sit back and watch while people get scammed or fed bullshit, your just as guilty as them, but Saki would be the first to say something.

Notice how there isn’t any riff raft around AR? Because they can’t deal with people who are true enthusiasts and have a clue what they are talking about.

Plenty of kudos was given to APR, some of us just like to know more details than other that like to stare at dynos

#75

Great thread with great info!

RT/Ernie, please don’t get dissuaded from sharing more information. The nice thing with Audi Revolution is that they’re unrelenting when it comes to pursuing data. For better or worse (depends on perspective).

Please pardon my limited/non-existent tuning no how (I’m not an engineer but I do work with data):
I’ve always wondered how the 4.2 V8 would handle boost (since I do plan on slapping this on the RS5 - as soon as I have the funds available - lol @ other hobbies and prepping the RS5 for track season next year). The supercharged 3.0 V6T in the B8 S4 had an actual boost sensor that we could pull from Vag Com (it also has a MAF sensor). So we could look at actual boost and compare it against requested boost on the B8 S4 and some members here have done a great job logging those values (primetime, pete, and tsivas).

But for a NA car, I was curious if a boost sensor would be included and it would have a requested vs actual boost, but it looks like it all keys off of Mass Airflow. I should probably start logging my car and getting familiar with the values in it’s stock form.

#76

Here you go. 11.12 @ 125.7 w. 1.69 60’

Density Altitude was around +200 to +300 feet (323 feet 28 minutes earlier at 7:53 pm, the nearest reading on dragttimes)

http://www.dragtimes.com/da-density-altitude-calculator.php?temperature=63.0&rh=41&altset=29.99&elevation=30&track=132&month=5&day=17&year=2013&time=7:53 PM

Some key things you may want to know…

  1. JHM SC kit at 8 lbs of boost (strangely they knew what it was without us asking)
  2. Air to water Intercooled
  3. JHM 5r clutch kit (you know what this is…seems you needed it to make the APR kit work)
  4. JHM 93 octane tune for Stage 2 SC (you know what this is too?)
  5. JHM full exhaust, catless - 2.75" downpipes + 2.75" x-pipe catback
  6. STOCK fuel pumps
  7. STREET tires
  8. PUMP gas
  9. FULL interior

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/sakimano/IMG-20131118-WA0014_zpsd3b4c08e.jpg

#77

^^ Saki just a heads up I think you posted APRs slip

#78

That’s JHM’s slip. Now. :slight_smile: Thanks for the note.
Interesting that both cars MPH’d 100 at the 1/8. Shows how the limits of the stock fuelling held the JHM car back so much in the big gears where the car was running out of fuel so they had to hold it back in the tune. Also shows how the slicks help the car rocket through the first half. APR car had 1 tenth on JHM at 60’, 2 tenths at 330 feet, 4 tenths at 660 feet. Picked up only one more tenth in the second half which is weird considering they picked up 30 MPH vs JHM’s 25.

Going to be very interesting here soon. I wouldn’t be shocked to see JHM go 10s @ 130 on pump gas, full interior, street tires. Which is what APR did with race gas, no interior, no exhaust and slicks. The ET comes down to the launch. That 1.50 is a huge difference maker, knocking 2 tenths off 1/4 mile ET right away and about another tenth from the 1-2 through 70 mph. Without those tires, that car is running 10.75-10.80 or so on race gas (104 file), with no interior and no exhaust. Close up the yard sale and put the parts back on the car and I wonder what it would do. 10.90 or so with a GREAT launch? It went 11.07 @ 129 with race gas, full interior and with an exhaust. That had a weak launch though. Give APR a 1.70 60’ and they have a 10.95 @ 129.

http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo193/sakimano/Screenshot_2013-11-14-18-35-45-1_zpsc3599102.png

#79

1: Can someone comment on the statements from numerous sources (close to the owner of this car) claiming that this car is in fact running much more than 8psi?

2: Can someone also explain why the car has been diagnosed with cylinder 4 failure aka blown up engine?

I’m just trying to clarify I believe these are both true.

Side note.
#80

hahaha Jason, you’re too much. I can clarify some things for you. I know the owner.

In California, it went 11.12 on 8 PSI with the JHM stage 2 kit with intercooler. Also had various LW parts like JHM rotors, flywheel etc. They sent it back to him in late spring, and towards the end of the summer, he asked for more boost. They (in Michigan) put on a smaller pulley, upgraded fuel pumps (it was stock fuelling when it went 11.12) tested it, and everything went great. Then it went to Milan and snapped a half shaft on the first pass. That was a few weeks ago. Milan closed shortly thereafter and unfortunately the car didn’t get back to the track. Engine was fine. Clutch and PP was fine. Unfortunately the axle broke, so what can you do. I was standing there at Milan when this happened. I have a video of it on youtube.

The owner has decided he wants to go stage 3 built motor. Should be one of the first few to get this done, and hopefully he will have it in the spring when he gets back to driving his RS4. The RS4 has become a bit of a project car for him, not a daily driver. His other cars are…impressive.

I should add…when we went to Milan (about ten people) the RS4 was only making about 9.5 PSI with the smaller pulley. It wasn’t drastic. ‘Much more’ is a bit of a laugh. To make sure you don’t act a fool, the smaller pulley was installed in Detroit, along with the fuel pumps, in September.