True and we all see how well this has worked out for them in the past.
So if you get tuned, and the car starts to have problems, APR won’t provide any support?
Not necessarily
They just aren’t liable
For example, if they put out a crappy stage 3 kit, and it never runs correctly and damages your engine… they aren’t liable.
Yep.
Anyone looking for a job?
APR’s hiring…
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/Zillon2/misc/aprsalessupport_zps0db11566.jpg
A BS for 35k/yr salary?
Interesting that APR deleted this from IG after posting it last night. Afraid customers won’t buy RSC inventory if they know it’s about to be replaced? Lol.
http://i.imgur.com/jgTs2xl.png
What’s great is that the only thing APR has going for them is the exhaust program that Joel Schurtz has put into place. Yet offloading around 500k in Corsa inventory isn’t easy so the high-margin products that have been designed since 2013 still haven’t been put to market.
I saw that a few people caught the APR price reduction of the RS4 downpipes from $1199 to $799 (former distributor cost). Even at those prices, APR is operating at an extremely healthy margin. Arin’s quote is funny:
[quote=Arin]Yes. There was a popular demand for a price reduction.
[/quote]
Issue is that there was no demand for this product. They’re still holding onto many of the initial run of 100 sets of DPs. Their cost for these Chinese bent pipes is sub-200’s.
Dave
Has anyone asked arin straight up if they are making those RS4 downpipes in China?
Would be a good idea.
Bet they say ‘no’ because they install an o2 bung in Alabama. On a downpipe that was made in China lol.
Lots of stuff in their lineup now comes from China. I’ll go into those downpipes a bit later.
Is it of any surprise that CTS now has a supercharger pulley and removal tool that look identical to those offered by APR?
http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/images/products/secondary/1190.jpg
http://www.goapr.com/includes/img/products/pulley_30tfsi_install_kit.jpg
http://www.goapr.com/includes/img/products/pulley_30tfsi_kit.jpg
Don’t get it. Just spit it out.
I think I see what Dave’s getting at…
That being said, CTS has a history of buying products to reverse engineer.
CTS and APR work with the same factory in China?
Other than the APR boost tap Arin claims that CTS reverse engineered, what else is there?
Products bearing similar likeness are not necessarily reverse engineered.
Like the guy before you said, buying from the same factory in china? CTS sells it for 1x and APR sells it for 3x??
Hahahahahaha.
Interested to see where this part of the conversation goes.
I can’t confirm if CTS gets their components from the same place, but it seems awfully suspicious that they’re coming out with identical components vs ones that different slightly in appearance.
What I do know is that often times if vendors are not paid, they make take actions to recoup an investment they have in a production run.
^^^Very true. You’d be wise to alter the product after you receive it to prevent the manufacturer from underselling you.
I know that JHM has done this in the past with parts where they get production of 90% of the part done at one place, and then finish it at JHM. That way nobody can buy the JHM part elsewhere. They can buy 90% of it, and then blow up their car when they try to use it as a replica lol.
For a pulley…pretty much impossible for APR to stop that or to differentiate their part vs. the CTS part.
New APR “Exhaust” program/manufacturing pt. 1
So continuing the discussion regarding APR and outsourcing to China, it really took off with the hire of Joel Schurtz in early 2013. As mentioned before, he’s a talented designer and knows how to get things made cheaply. I put him in contact with APR to help them improve margins on their unprofitable Corsa and Billy Boat lineup.
Looking at his previous employment history (Eurojet, Stasis, Unitronic, Steve Petty Motorsports), you’d wonder if he’s ever had any run-ins with APR. In fact Arin@APR has personally attacked him on forums and on Facebook numerous times regarding his use of outsourcing. It seems as if now Arin will have to eat crow. There’s a bit of irony in that Arin’s job is to aggressively promote Joel’s creations.
As I posted earlier, Joel was brought on to do an exhaust program, but the issue is the heavy backlog of RSC inventory that APR holds. With the Mangrove acquisition, that RSC inventory is no longer allowed to go on sale (just look at the previous two APR sales). Putting the RSC exhausts on sale would only further reduce the already slim margins, and a decrease in gross margin doesn’t look good to investors. As a result, they’ve been continuing the guise that they’re still doing business with Corsa and continuing the “RSC” line. That is not the case.
What you have here are basically production-ready samples of the diownpipe lineup that APR has been holding onto since 2013, until they exhaust (pun-intended) their RSC inventory. As Joel has managed to get items cast cheaply, their idea is to differentiate the design from his previous exhausts by utilizing a cast bellmouth / downturn while retaining other design elements from his previous designs such as vbands.
http://i.imgur.com/NlrgBMv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MhFQRmJ.jpg
That being said, since it’s APR/Mangrove, these new units will command a high pricepoint due to the additional “feature” despite the costs being reduced significantly. Bravo to Joel for producing high quality T304 downpipes vs APR pulling the wool over on customers’ eyes by switching to 439 stainless for the RSC stuff.
Of course Joel’s talents aren’t only restricted to exhausts. APR/Mangrove has utilized him in other ways to boost profitability. It’s unfortunate that these improved margins haven’t been passed along to customers and distributors. In fact, looking at the pricing of Joel’s products at previous companies, you could say that he was trying to provide the community sustainable products at good value.
You won’t see many complaints about his previous work. Many customers have praised the low price point and high quality of the items. I’m sure those who choose to purchase these APR downpipes will be pleased by the quality but not so much with the price. Notice how I stated downpipes . . . Mangrove has decided that since downpipes provide the highest margins, exhausts will be put off indefinitely. Assuming they see the expected returns, full exhausts might come at a later date.
I’ll post some links and references to Joel’s work later. You may recognize his name from the Stasis Engineering blunder.
So Arin’s cronies have been getting the cast DP link deleted from Facebook groups. Fairly odd since it’s a first look at upcoming APR products + I’m speaking quite favorably about it.
What they fail to realize is that customers can essentially force Mangrove to set “reasonable” market pricing by opting not to purchase products at ripoff prices (shifter bracket, turbo muffler). Just look at the RS4 downpipes. After pricing it at a staggering $1199 for a product that costs them less than $200 to manufacture, they were forced to reduce pricing to $799 due to overwhelming lack of demand. It’s pretty funny that Arin claimed that there was a demand for a price reduction.
Even at $800 they’re still selling the product at a healthy margin.
Dave
Cheap Chinese downpipes that are catless and are 2.5" (aka stock size) should sell for about 350-400 not 800.
And that’s only to people who are too stupid to know what piggies are.