APR Deceptive Website and Marketing practices

General Discussion
#161

I guess VAG is too broad. VW and mainstream audi’s. so 2.0t and 3.0t

I know that what happened doesn’t magically change their previous products that were solid, but I could never purchase from them again, or recommend them.

#162

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/Zillon2/misc/aprsosorry_zps6343314b.jpg

#163

Ok time to bait the lurkers since I know they are watching this thread like a hawk.

IMHO as a former APR dealer of the all the vehicles we flashed , never had one single issue with a customer coming back saying the vehicle “threw codes” i.e. once payment was made with respect to flashes , no labour time was invested post flashing.
Most of the products we installed were solid:

  • Intercoolers
  • Turbo kits
  • HPFP
  • etc.
    We had a direct account with BillyBoat (which most APR dealers did) so selling the customer a BB exhaust at 1/2 the price of a competing units just seemed more logical. Corsa was simply the answer to funneling more revenue without the “middle men” as none of us could buy VW/Audi products direct from Corsa.

On the flip side a very good friend of ours is the local GIAC dealer and they have similar results!

That being said , once this lawsuit is over , I will simply photocopy and upload the court documents and join the circus. I am sure others would love to hear about it since this seems to be a joke of some sort.

Cliff notes:

  • Still owed flashing credit from January 2014 (10 months and counting) i.e. Our flashing credit (thousands mind you) is still sitting in a bank account somewhere collecting interest for X party.
  • Still owed countless discrepancies in billing (common issue with most current APR dealers I speak to) dating back to when APR split into APR USA & APR Canada i.e. Sale price for a single flash is $349 USD , You bill customer $349 USD and you are billed for a 4 program flash essentially losing money.
  • Still waiting for call tags to be issued for incorrect product shipped that was to be returned.
  • Still waiting for overnight shipping charges we were billed due to customers waiting 5-6 months for products and then when they finally came in and we wanted them yesterday - no responsibility was taken.
#164

APR manifolds

One of the areas where APR has dominated over the previous years is the ability to release a relatively turn-key turbo kit which enthusiasts can usually install on their own. The centerpiece of these kits is the investment cast Inconel exhaust manifold. For many years, this high quality exhaust manifold was produced in the USA at Wisconsin precision casting. www.wisconsinprecision.com That happy partnership ended about a year ago when APR moved production of these manifolds overseas to China. The reason for doing this is because they were looking at ~70% cost savings for each manifold produced as well as a reduction in tooling costs by ~95%.

In a recent build (October 2014) by an APR distributor, detailed photographs were taken of the components. When I pointed out the noticeable quality differences to APR, the photographs were removed from that distributor’s site. Judge for yourself:

New manifold, what customers receive

http://i.imgur.com/NBHAkub.jpg

Old manifold, still used as stock picture on APR website

http://i.imgur.com/H8dVfj5.jpg

Customer picture of old manifold, no professional photography

http://i.imgur.com/LiiLTqY.jpg

The new manifolds are riddled with excess metal slag. The cast edges and angles on the flange are not sharp. The machining of the bolt holes and relief cuts appear to be off-center and skewed to the right.

Even if it’s ugly, as long as it works it should be good right?

Unfortunately these new foreign manifolds have a history of warping. When/if the customer discovers the issue, APR has denied warping ever occurring, and claims that it is the first occurrence. While the customer may get a replacement manifold for free, labor and diagnostic costs are now the responsibility of the customer, unless they meet the warranty guidelines for labor reimbursement by APR (both purchasing from and having the kit installed by a distributor). The replacement manifold is from the same foreign vendor, which indicates that the issue may resurface.

Note that this is not the only component in the stage 3 kits that have had costs reduced by shifting manufacturing overseas. While the costs have been reduced on the kits significantly, the pricing of the stage 3 kits has increased and dealer margins have not changed. The gross margins of these kits have increased but unfortunately neither quality nor value to the consumer has followed suit.

The MAF housing also shows the difference in quality between the original domestically produced piece and the overseas unit. Given the intended use of the MAF housing, the rough exterior finish only affects aesthetics, not performance.

Old MAF housing, stock picture on website

http://i.imgur.com/ghsGlGH.jpg

New MAF housing, what the customer receives

http://i.imgur.com/ema3dg6.jpg

All in all, it is slightly ironic that APR has been shifting their products to overseas manufacturing given the very recent posts by Arin@APR as well as the featured page on their website essentially denouncing overseas products.

GolfMK6 2013 postings regarding overseas components

http://www.goapr.com/products/testing-mkv-intercooler.html

“looks can be deceiving” indeed

#165

I wonder why AR didn’t get a supercharger announcement bump now that it is available again? ;D

#166

To be fair, I didn’t see a bump anywhere regarding the superchargers. They’re probably hoping that with time, no one will realize that they were ever removed from the site.

#167

How did you miss this?
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/575402-APR-Presents-the-B7-RS4-4-2L-FSI-V8-Stage-III-TVS1740-Supercharger-System!?p=10384211&viewfull=1#post10384211

#168

Damn that MAF is terrible. So glad I waited on my warranty before taking the modding plunge with my R, probably would have ended up with some of this crap.

#169

Once again, when you screw over every possible vendor stateside and owe them a TON of money, you are forced to go overseas to make your product. I dealt with Wisconsin Precision almost daily when I worked at APR and the amount of money that they were owed was absolutely ridiculous! APR did at one point try to get the tooling back in order to switch to another company, but WP refused due to outstanding invoices. I’m assuming the new tooling was done overseas as well judging off the quality of these parts now. The new ones look absolutely horrible compared to what was once produced there. Way to go APR…keep pouring more water into your sinking ship!

#DoNotGoAPR
#blameArin
#WindowsUpBitch

#170

The #WindowsUpBitch" thing needs to stop. Hansel is a fool who got caught lying. Several individuals offered him assistance but he decided to act like a child and throw a tantrum on the forum instead. Give him six months and he will be going on a tirade about Revo as well, just like he did with Stasis and APR.

#171

[quote=“Ynnekdude,post:170,topic:6377”]
Naw…total jab at Arin. Nothing more, nothing less.

#172

No, the entire hashtag thing needs to be stopped.

#173

Yawn…back on topic.

#174

As I posted before, of course APR’s products are now being made over seas. They hired Joel away from another company, he has no skills other than overseas manufacturing. Now that they have been outed who is the best supplier now? most of the vendors have some manufacturing overseas so who gives the best deals?

#175

Saki posted this elsewhere on AR but I feel it should be added to the APR record in this thread. Quite the fall from grace for APR.

#176

Looks like APR is not honoring transfer of tunes to the new owners:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/631780-APR-not-honoring-previous-flash-purchase

[QUOTE=RRF985]I purchased my A4 on April 23, 2014 from a dealer in CT. During the whole purchase process I had contacted APR to find out if the car happened to have a previous flash. After providing the VIN they told me that it was in their system and that it would just be a flash transfer fee of $150. Unfortunately, somewhere along the line before I got the car, the car was flashed back to stock at an Audi dealer with an updated box code that APR does not have on file. I did not think this would be a big deal. I chose to wait a while to reflash as the car needed copious amounts of work to get it back to acceptable driving condition. After 8 months, I am now ready to have the car reflashed.

I contacted APR this morning and spoke with Richard (who could have been more friendly). I once again asked about the transfer and was told it would be $150. He asked for my VIN and I provided it. After looking in their system, he told me they do not have the VIN on file. Apparently APR has lost my VIN in eight months. After being told prior that the car had a previous flash and that I only had to pay the transfer fee, APR has somehow “lost” my VIN and now requires me to pay FULL PRICE for a flash after they had previously verified they had my VIN eight months ago. So much for “APR is committed to satisfying every one of our customers 100% percent.”
[/quote]
Really for some extra $350 they’re going to hustle a guy like that ::slight_smile: and tarnish their reputation(or what’s left of it)even more. Sad very sad…

#177

Release of Liability to purchase APR software

1/8/2015, APR released to its distributor network a new process when selling APR software. Essentially the customer has to agree to a release of liability in order to purchase APR software. Furthermore, the release doesn’t simply specify APR software, but encompasses all APR products. I have attached screenshots of the email below.

Also, I’ve used OCR to copy the text from the “Turbo disclaimer” image APR provided. I have bolded phrases which I feel are particularly relevant

[quote=APR]Turbo Disclaimer

Enhancing the performance of a vehicle through hardware or software modifications sold by APR, LLC will increase the stresses and wear placed on the vehicle’s engine, ancillary parts and components and drivetrain. This in turn may accelerate their normal wear and need for service and replacement and decrease their longevity. This is true even for versions of software that are lower output because such lower output versions create less stresses than the high output versions but still increase the stresses relative to factory settings.

Additionally, on August 5, 2014, Audi released a Technical Service Bulletin (21E7 UPDATE) stating that on A3 vehicles manufactured during a certain period “the turbocharger may fail causing the MIL to illuminate.” The turbochargers referenced in this bulletin are the same as or similar to those utilized on other vehicles manufactured by the Volkswagen Auto Group (VAG). The increased stresses placed on the vehicle’s engine, ancillary parts and components and drivetrain by APR, LLC hardware or software (including both low and high output versions) may also exacerbate any inherent design or production flaws in these turbochargers, accelerate their failure and thereby result in other damage.

APR, LLC makes no claims, promises or guarantees regarding the effects any of its products have on the longevity of the engines, ancillary parts and components or drivetrains of customer vehicles.

The customer understands that installing APR, LLC products on such vehicles could void the manufacturer’s or other third party warranty should the turbocharger or any other part covered by the warranty fail. The customer further understands and agrees that APR, LLC expressly disclaims and shall have no liability for any damages of any kind related to vehicle failures or a manufacturer or third party ref using to honor a warranty. In furtherance and not in limitation of the foregoing, APR, LLC EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS.

Regarding the aforementioned circumstances, access to APR, LLC software is expressly conditioned upon acceptance of all terms and conditions contained in this agreement. If you accept the foregoing terms and conditions, please indicate your agreement by clicking the link below labeled “I ACCEPT.”

I ACCEPT
[/quote]
While they reference the MK7 GTI turbo failures as the reasoning for the change, the waiver seems to encompass all APR software and is not specific to the MK7 files, especially as indicated by example shown with a 2010 Tiguan

http://i.imgur.com/XpmOpu7.png

http://i.imgur.com/fAmSOHu.png

http://i.imgur.com/2LDHurv.png

http://i.imgur.com/YHTjLFI.png

http://i.imgur.com/eCNRBFZ.png

http://i.imgur.com/HPiv1jw.png

As far as I know, no other company requires a release of liability waiver in order to purchase software.

#178

Glad to see you finally posted all this up regarding APR not standing behind any of the products they sell…including software. Talk about a giant fuck you to all the customers! To me, this screams “we are at the end and trying to take advantage of every sucker in the market before we close up shop for good.” All the signs are there…this speaks volumes as to the future of the company in my opinion.

#179

that just looks like normal stuff their new lawyers are putting in place to limit liability

every shop would do this if they had counsel

#180

FWIW, APR has always had in-house counsel, and the same individual is still there.