APR tuned S4 vs. GIAC tuned S4…

B8 S4
#1

So Jeff and I finally hit the track today… Wanted to start by thanking him for driving down and making this happen… Not many folks would drive 4 hours just to race and test their car… We didn’t just race and it was nice to meet him and party a little on Friday, we had a good time talking cars and such… The AK47 and Pink are pretty good, eh? Thanks Jeff! You’re welcome at my place any time…

So about the races… We made a total of 5 passes, two hot lapped to start and then it got crowded and a few breaks so it got slow… Anyway, I won 5-0 in terms of actual races but he ran a better ET one time… Honestly, not what I was expecting but I’m very happy with my car… We used the same fuel(MS109) and both ran our 104 tune… He did NOT spray w/m on any pass… He did NOT use LC anytime and given his 60’s he doesn’t need it…

Mods:
Me - 2010 S4 – APR tune, pulley, CPS, 034 HFC’s, Miltek non-res exhaust, custom intake, Brembo BBK, JHM LW rear rotors, BBS CHR wheels, H&R sways, and Alu-Kruez

Jeff - 2012 S4 – GIAC tune, GIAC DSG tune, pulley, meth injection, Eurocode longtubes, AWE resonated exhaust, roc-euro intake, VMR wheels, ECS rotors, Eurocode USS setup, Alu-Kruez, H&R sports, and SPC adj. control arms (correct me if I’m wrong on any mods bud)

Conditions:
DA was between 450 – 850 for all passes… 44-48F, 53% - 44% humidity, and 30.04 – 29.94BP ranges… We both started with 36psi up front and 32 in the back… I dropped mine slightly not sure if he did or not?

First pass… My car hooked hard but then violently shuttered, I honestly thought I snapped something… I stayed in it and it was fine so I was relieved but the shutter hurt my ET IMO… I’ll post the vid in a little and you’ll see the camera shake hard… Anyway, I went 11.84 and Jeff went 12.34 as he spun bad…

Second pass… We hot lapped and both of us ran our bests… These cars love to hot lap and hate sitting trust me… Hooked good and went 11.72 and Jeff went 11.82… He killed me in the 60ft time 1.62 to my 1.67 but I was ahead by the 330 and maintained… He mentioned a few times how I pulled him in 2nd but we seemed more even after that…

Third pass… He out 60ft me again 1.65 to 1.67 but I think he had a hang-up shifting and I went 11.86 to his 12.09… We had to wait almost 1 hour before this pass and the car just doesn’t like that…

Fourth pass… I “won” the race but he ran a better ET which is all I care about… He killed me in the 60ft yet again 1.65 to 1.70. Had a slight hangup this race and it cost me, he went 11.90 to my 11.94…

Fifth pass… He out 60ft me yet again… 1.66 to 1.69 and I went 11.93 to his 11.96… We waited again an hour or so before this pass…

So all and all happy, would to have liked to set a record but it was too cold… Would have been better if it was sunny and a little warmer with a higher BP but it is what it is… Really shocked that he out 60ft me on every run but one and still lost… I’ll review both sets of logs and post some thoughts from those… I think these will shine some light on things in comparison to the tunes… He peaked at his and said he was making killer timing up top like 28-29 but bypassing 10% of his boost so that is hurting him IMO… I haven’t looked at mine yet… His car sounds really good with the headers, pretty loud on cold start…

Hungry so I’ll post more later including vids and such… My brother actually did a decent job! LOL

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af247/concordslim/Montville-20131109-00928_zps320e9fdb.jpg


http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af247/concordslim/Concord-20131109-00929_zpsb45a19f1.jpg


http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af247/concordslim/Concord-20131109-00930_zpsa49b257e.jpg


http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af247/concordslim/Concord-20131109-00931_zps997420f2.jpg


http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af247/concordslim/Concord-20131109-00932_zpsa9fc656e.jpg


http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af247/concordslim/Concord-20131109-00933_zps6ddc0e20.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK434Izun58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHsx8j7-khA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trdmsY6RETU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9OZz0IGWKU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qq1bx6HdMI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_j7NColflw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyCc2-iAtqU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94RnRU4_esw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I4cFkcUmqs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_3wQLgzk8w

#2

What tires are each of you using?

#3

Thanks for doing this guys…

Like always great runs for both…

Looks like the bypass opening really cost the GIAC car some time up top. I’ve seen this happen to mine as well in the cold.

Good runs and I’m surprised at the 60’ times for both, consistent 1.6’s!

Headers are fail, here’s another example…

#4

Nice. Looks like a fun day of testing. :slight_smile:

#5

I would assume that the APR tune seemingly has a more advanced adaptation for lower IAT’s etc or am I wrong there?

So the big thing we draw from this is that the DSG tune doesn’t do much, the headers don’t do much and potentially the meth doesn’t do much if you are running the same fuel although direct port would probably be more effective in that area. But then again, prime’s car is some sort of beast for sure! ;D

Excellent work guys looking forward to a more in depth analysis, great that people are willing to really dig deep to help improve this platform! Competition only helps 8)

#6

Awesome job guys. Both cars sound sweet.

Why such a big difference in trap speeds?

Could those headers be hurting the car up top?

Is this the same phenomenon we saw with Pete’s car up top?

#7

Nice job boys! Only question about the mods I have is what diameter rims are you guys running? 19’s?

Ron I thought for sure you would have had better times. (not that they weren’t good, but you know what I mean) Only one 11.7 time out of all your runs seem weird. Was the track prep not up to par? Or do you just think the sun not warming the track hurt the times? Or maybe the S4 is a little jealous that your spending a lot of time with that TTRS!

#8

Right lane traps higher than left lane. No idea why, Ron might know.

Logs will be posted soon, direct comparison for the AWE and APR cooling systems as well. We will see who has better intake temps!

Can’t wait to see these logs.

#9

Great work guys. This seems to be the best apr to GIAC comparo I have seen thusfar for a pair of stage 2 cars.

#10

Great numbers! Wonder if Ron’s lw drivetrain mods were the deciding factor here.

#11

What wheels was Jones running?
I think he did add lw wheels as well. At least he posted earlier about adding wheels in addition to some Jhm lw rear rotors and Apikol rear diff mount.

What other lw mods does Ron have?

I don’t think there is that much diff between the two and lw supporting mods.

#12

Thanks for posting. Cool to see you guys battle it out.

What’s with teh trap speeds? It’s like 3 MPH higher in the right lane.

#13

This is like pay per view for car geeks.

Thanks for documenting the fight.

#14

Really glad to see you guys make this happen. Great stuff, and +karma.

I think this is the final nail in the coffin regarding the supposed benefits of launch control. It’s a neat feature but doesn’t provide an optimal launch.

#15

Cory, We are both running Conti DW’s… He has 18 and me 19’s…

Pete, Thanks! Jeff’s car ran well and his 60s were very very good… Just glad I got the win(s)…

Arin, Thanks! Very fun… Shame there was so many issues otherwise we would have gotten a few more passes…

KB, Thanks! He didn’t spray…

Tsivas, Thanks! The lanes show about 1-2mph difference… I’ve mentioned this in the past… The right lane is more accurate IMO, the left understates trap… Look at my speedo going through the traps it’s much closer to 120 than 115… You know how I feel about the headers…

Ryan, Thanks! Jeff had 18’s and I had 19’s… Nice advantage for him IMO… Yeah, I thought I would go better as well… Track was tough to gauge and the sitting hurt… Jeff killed me on 60s which really surprised me… I think his car has a lot of potential… Track prep was good it was just cold and my tires were like hockey pucks… Jeff and I were warming them up as much as possible but it didn’t help because of the wait… Again, hot lapping would have helped…

Salmon, Thanks! I agree a nice comparison and probably closer than the results show… I out reacted him which makes it look worse and he spun and had some issues… His car is strong…

Apex, Thanks! He has the same LW mods as me or more… I have a BBK up front he just has LW rotors, we both have LW rears, and his wheels are lighter… He is lowered which should help… Weight wasn’t the reason for any wins/losses here IMO…

Saki, Thanks man! I try… Traps are off between the two lanes I thought I mentioned that in the past… The right traps more realistic I think the left is slow…

Doug, Thanks man! Like I just said to Saki I try… Cool analogy, appreciate that!

#16

yeah, I think you did mention the traps thing once.

Our track used to have that too. Only fast-ish cars would notice it. If you were trapping 125 it was 123 in the left lane. But if you trapped 108, you trapped 108 in both. Weird.

#17

Nice battle! Good info!

Prime I suspect the difference in wheel diameters and weight, him having overall less rotational inertia, giving him the slightest advantage in the '60.

#18

Sounds like it was an awesome day at the track! Can’t wait to see what further insights the logs provide.

#19

Awesome guys!! Thanks for posting/sharing.

#20

Brandon, Thanks! I appreciate it…

Bigserve, Thanks! Yeah I suspect you are correct on the wheel/tires… Just shocked that he killed me in 60s as that is kind of my thing… lol But then I overtook him is even the bigger surprise…

Scott, Thanks man!

Blackhawk, Thanks!

If you guys watch any of the vids try to listen for my shifts and Jeffs, you can tell he shifts right after me every time do to the higher redline, pretty interesting to hear… Got to listen close… I go into 5th every pass not sure Jeff does?

Now the bad news… I downloaded the latest vag software so Jeff and I would be on the same version… Checked all the same fields, turbo mode, and group by… Saved the file and it’s fucking blank… Has all the field headings but no data… Pretty irate about that… Going to test it on the road today to see what the heck is going on… Jeff and I were really looking forward to comparing logs and now we can’t… Really pissed about this… Thought about checking them after the second pass but I didn’t… GRRRR…