Audi C6 S6 v10 Info Dump

A6 All/ S6 All
#35

This document seems to confirm that the Lambo v10s have a Alusil block

http://www.kspg.com/fileadmin/media/Broschueren/Poduktbroschueren/KS_ATAG/ZKG_Niederdruckguss/at_niederdruckguss_zkg_e.pdf

Today, KS Aluminium-Technologie has the following low-
pressure die cast cylinder blocks in series production:
Audi V6, ALUSIL
®
(various versions)
Audi V8, ALUSIL
®
(various versions)
Audi V10, ALUSIL
®
BMW / Rolls Royce V12, ALUSIL
®
Lamborghini V10, ALUSIL
®
Aston Martin V8, hypoeutectic secondary alloy with
shrunk-in grey cast liner
Porsche Boxer
6
, ALUSIL
®
(various versions)
Porsche V6, ALUSIL
®
Porsche V8, ALUSIL
®
VW / Audi / Bentley W12, ALUSIL
®

#36

the Lambo V12s have liners

http://www.carbuildindex.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/3-Gallardo-Engine-Assembly.jpg

this page claims to be for rebuilding the Lambo V10, pictures of the bare block
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C287880

another low quality picture

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSX0YIRlouVXYcYUvG9eNyQNUcT7XP0doXTMk7RjWqnkLWfW59o6A

#37

What’s to be taken from this then? The company selling sleeves for the motor mentions the Lamborghini blocks have liners.

[quote]With this increased power comes increased cylinder pressure and the factory cylinder liners typically become the weak point.
[/quote]

#38

Not sure. Everything that I see aside from that seems to indicate an alusil block without liners.

#39

Contact the member from AZ with the bad block maybe you can get pictures or a good deal on his bad motor.

#40

I did contact him about pics. Haven’t heard back.

Ill msg him about the engine. But, I bet that the shop just list it on car-part.com or ebay for $5k and neglect to mention the problem with it. It would only be worth getting for testing if you could get it for a thousand bucks, IMHO. We should mark the serial in case it shows up again down the road in a different car.

Who knows the real history of the car. For all we know, it is a high-mileage engine after the car had a front end collision. Or maybe a flood car. Engine replacement at 21k miles doesn’t make sense to me. I only mentioned it here so that we can track any major issues, and look for trends. So far, this seems like a one off occurrence. I saw one similar story in the UK awhile ago. Ill see if I can find it.

#41

I have always looked at it like this.

The S6 and S8 are like the B6/7 S4 motors
and
The lambo motors are like the RS4 motors.

The same but different. The RS4 motors have better everything, it’s not that the B6/7 motors are really bad they are just not as good as the RS4

#42

Great comparison.

#43

I have spent some time looking into improving a local C6 S6 and there is a lot of room for improvement. In my opinion Audi made a fantastic engine and put it into a great car (both the S6 and S8) but they restricted it down really far so that it wouldn’t overshadow the current RS models of the time. Remember they had the B7 RS4 already out around the same time and then the C6 RS6 Avant came out in Europe. There was a purple D3 S8 that I worked on regularly and I loved every time he brought it in unless I had to check the power steering fluid. Here are a few things that I noticed.

Let me start with the intake.

  1. The intake tubing and air boxes are way too small. If you take off the top of the air boxes then you will see how badly the air filters are squeezed in there.
  2. They have a Soundpipe on the left/driver’s side. It probably slows down the intake air like the pipe that is on the B6 A4 3.0 V6. Look here for an explanation: http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=96.0
  3. There is more than enough room to run a cold air intake like what the A6 3.0T guy did on the right/passenger’s side. Hell there is enough room to fit the JHM SC down there backwards like how JHM mounted it on the B8 S5. But the driver’s side has a secondary radiator in the way just below the headlight. I was going to move that secondary radiator in front of the main radiator and AC condenser with some brass fittings and longer coolant lines to fit a true cold air intake but that project never got off the ground.
  4. The intake manifold is cast magnesium like the B6/7 S4s so it gets heat soaked really bad. The engine gets hot as hell so some thick intake manifold spacers are needed to make a difference.
  5. The intake manifold is a dual path intake manifold like the B6/7 S4s for better low end torque and higher end horsepower.
  6. The change over is done by the Variable Intake Manifold Runner Motor V183. That part failed a LOT on both the Q7 version 4.2L FSI V8s and the 5.2L FSI V10s. There was an updated part to solve that problem. It was a nice repair on the V10s because I could replace the motor without moving the front end into service position but it still paid for those extra steps. If you ever have to replace that part then I highly recommend buying a bunch of the little tiny C-clips that hold the motor arms to the other linkages.

Lets move to the exhaust.

  1. The stock catback is tiny. I think a proper 2.75" catback from where the Y-pipes that connect the exhaust manifolds all the way back would help out a lot. These engines make between 429 to 444 horsepower stock which is just above what the RS4s make. The RS4s have seen a big improvement with 2.75" exhaust so why not on the V10s. Please don’t hold it against me if the members here with more knowledge think a 3" exhaust would work better.
  2. Those stock cats are really hateful. I took off the stock Y-pipes that connect the two exhaust manifolds together to change out the transmission fluid and filter. While doing that repair it looked like the cats for the front three cylinders on each side would be easy to gut. The cats for the rear two cylinders looked like a PITA to gut but it might be possible with a good long angled striking prybar, a big 3" or 4" wire brush attachment for a drill, and a few starts of the engine to blow all the crap out.
  3. Of course proper headers would be the best solution but it would be an extremely tight fit. Either way a good exhaust should sound fantastic.

Lastly I really see a weight reduction helping out these cars.

  1. The wheels are heavy as lead. They also use a odd tire size on these cars that are expensive.
  2. Those stock brake rotors are heavy as shit. I would be willing to bet a coke that JHM could shave over 10 pounds from the front rotors each. Even the rear rotors are heavy.
  3. All the C6 batteries are huge but they are also in the trunk like the B7 RS4s so I wouldn’t be so worried about it.
  4. The stock crank pulley is a fluid filled vibration dampener. It would be interesting if JHM came out with a lightweight front crank pulley to replace the stock unit.
1 Like
#44

Great info jbones. Always good to hear the real world perspective

#45

Awesome writeup Jimmy!

#46

Not many details on this one. From an S8, but the same usual suspects as the S6

V10 S8 in for some TLC, broken inlet manifold, flaps not working and heavily carboned up

http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb11171867/p4pb11171867.jpg

V10 S8 all finished, carbon cleaned, manifold stripped, modified and cleaned and a pair of high flow filters to finish.

http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb11171948/p4pb11171948.jpg

#47

Here is a pic of the S8 engine, and the soundpipe to which Jbones is referring, along with the filter and airbox config. S6 is slightly different

http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb11148861/p4pb11148861.jpg

#48

You’d probably be able to figgure out some good information from the air filter part numbers and sizes. Have you checked into that?

#49

07L133843B
07L133843E

Part number isnt really giving any more info. We will eventually be taking mine out for inspection, and will try and do some calculation to figure out if they are appropriately sized (CV believes they are likely undersized)

#50

I bet they are properly sized. I installed K&N filters on the S6 that I did and they were the same size as stockers. Here is the info on them. Part number is E-2996

The flange the filter mounts to is 3.125"
The fliter itself is 6" diameter
The filter is 4.25" long.

Flatten that out and you have a panel that is almost 19" long and of course 4.25 wide. AREA: 80" (x2 filters so 160")
I seem to remember that the end of the stock factory filters are pleated and cone shaped, so that would add to the surface area of the filter.

S4 and RS4 filters are 10.3 x 8.25 so AREA is 84"

Thickness of the filter will probably make a difference here, but I suspect it is not enough to wash out the difference and put the V8 filter in the lead

Making up a measurement number for the hell of it. Square inches of filter per liter.
5.2 V10…30.8 per liter
4.2 V8…19.0 per liter.

SO the V10 filter sizes would appear to be plenty and not a major restriction. That airbox is tiny though. How much does a V10 S6 flow in CFM at WOT in optimal conditions?

#51

Here are some pictures I have

Left and right airbox inlets and outlets. The filter is shoe-horned in there

Then left and right filters.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x59/joec1992/DSCN2246.jpg


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x59/joec1992/DSCN2247.jpg


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x59/joec1992/DSCN2249.jpg


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x59/joec1992/DSCN2250.jpg

Flappy actuator

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x59/joec1992/DSCN2331.jpg

K&N filters installed

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x59/joec1992/photo-160.jpg

#52

Great info Joe! Thanks!

#53

The air filters were checked on my S6 today. MMMmmmmm… pretty :slight_smile:

http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb11174723/p4pb11174723.jpg

http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb11174724/p4pb11174724.jpg

#54

User included pics
http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/delasem/slideshow/

I am not sure if I see cylinder wall scoring. Maybe on a couple of the pics. It is hard to tell with the photos being in extreme closeup. I see what looks like carbon on the cylinder walls.

I messaged the owner to see what exactly the garage is saying is the cause of the oil consumption.

What do you guys think?