Thank you! If you have access or knowledge on how to build a chiller unit then absolutely it can be done. But the size of the KC unit is actually already very compact and a perfect fit for our cars. Nor sure that anything smaller is necessary but surely anything bigger is going to be difficult to get a clean fit. I looked at the Australian option which on paper seems like a better system but in the end I am glad/relieved I didn’t go down that route, its almost twice the price of the KC system and likewise in size. I wouldn’t have been able to fit that in the limited space available on the RS4.
So the above really take care and show just about the complete install of the Killer Chiller system. I have a ton of photos so if there are any questions let me know. Things I haven’t touch on yet is the obvious question, does it work?? The short answer for now is Yes, I will get into more specifics and details later.
With regards to the KC unit. The Bypass Valve shipped to me from Kincaid is absolute junk. Its a cheap Chinese unit and the price you pay for that unit is ridiculous. Mine turned out to be junk and wouldn’t operate properly and I just tossed it in the rubbish bin. I did send Joe at Kincaid a note but as yet no response. The supplied unit would actuate when switched on and would return to original position by means of a charged capacitor when switched off. In the end I bought a similar unit locally with some warranty repairs behind it. Still a cheap Chinese unit but it seems to do the job just fine. I also opted for a unit where both directions of the 3-way ball valve were controlled by means of electric motor similar to the 2-way Drag Valve.
The rest of the system and parts are of good quality.
With the major fab work out of the way and the system ready to go it was a matter of getting coolant into the reservoir, charge the AC system and hit the road. But, the thought of driving the car without knowing what is really happening was not an option so I decided to look at the option to install some sensors that could give me real-time measurement at anytime whilst in the car. I wanted a Plug & Play solution and the one thing I didn’t want was an external gauge sitting on the dash or in the vent of which there were quite a few options available.
But, more about that tomorrow, now it’s bedtime in my part of the world!
So you actually kind of have the same idea as me by putting it in the crash bar. I haven’t gotten a chance to take measurements or do much research yet, but I think I found some heat exchangers that would actually fit without hacking it apart, with the exception of adding holes for the lines.
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18.3”x2.9”x2”
The other idea would to just run the AC refrigerant through a copper coil inside of the water reservoir. Something kind of like this:
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Then there’s always a chance I’ll just grab the KC kit.
Yes, crash bar was the logical place but it’s really tight, will have to be a very compact unit to be able to fit completely on the inside. If you eliminate the blower’s Heat Exchanger then you will have much more space to work with. Something I didn’t want to do. I think it’s beneficial to keep it for the really cold days when you don’t have to run the AC as well as those times that you might have a problem with the AC. Would really suck to be in a situation where the AC don’t work and you got rid of the blower’s heat exchanger.
Just wanted to say wow and I think we all apprechate all your hard work and great attention to detail. Its interesting to see how this comes together.
As for the crash bar. I think you actually might have a bit more room on the RS4 than we have on the B6 S4. So I would like to see this work for the b6 S4 but I just don’t think there is enough room even if you cut into the bar.
Still I would like to see firsrt hand. Sounds like a lot of us are on the SC bandwagon and its a good wagon to be on. I’ll have to take a look in the next few months when I install my kit.
Thanks, and hopefully it’s worth all the effort at the end of the day but as mentioned earlier, initial results are positve.
[quote]As for the crash bar. I think you actually might have a bit more room on the RS4 than we have on the B6 S4. So I would like to see this work for the b6 S4 but I just don’t think there is enough room even if you cut into the bar.
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Yes, I have no clue other than what Jimmy said about his install which indicated that the RS4 had a bit more space in the front to work with.
[quote]Still I would like to see firsrt hand. Sounds like a lot of us are on the SC bandwagon and its a good wagon to be on. I’ll have to take a look in the next few months when I install my kit.
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Yes, love the blower, it’s taken some hard work and effort to get it all installed but looking back I won’t change anything, apart form a few small mistakes here and there but overall no regrets. It’s a game changer there is no otherway to put it.
I get so many compliments back home from the RS4 community once they grasp the extend of the installation. It’s staggering how many of them are totally bemused when I open the hood and they see no top mounted blower, the look on their faces are quite comical ;D ;D ;D To them a blower on the RS4 spells APR ???
Looking forward to get your feedback once you start your install.
Ok, so let me expand on my statement from lastnight that I wanted to be able to have some realtime measurements whilst driving.
Something that bugged me even before I started the chiller install was the fact that I had the blower fitted and other than VCDS and the normal in dash ambient and oil temp displays, had no clue of actual intake temps post blower, boost pressures etc. The best way to describe it is that I felt a bit like driving in the dark, I got the performance I wanted but I was lacking the monitoring bit.
That got me thinking and when I started the Chiller install I figured now was a good time to see whats available. The must haves included the following: Realtime Boost display, AIT’s post intercooler, Coolant temps both before and after the intercooler, so basically reservoir coolant temp and coolant temp after the Chiller and/or Heat exchanger before the intercooler.
Fist step was to source a product that could provide all of that and the one that gave me everything I wanted and more than I ever could have ever asked for was the vFIZ system from Qmatis in Poland. It’s a plug and play system, fully customizable and gave me the option to hook up some external sensors. All the information gets displayed on the existing DIS so no need for external gauges, pods etc. exactly what I was looking for. The system is a whole subject on its own and some of you might know it so I will just cover what is applicable to my chiller install.
For the external sensors I ordered 2 x Thermocouple Type-K’s and 1 x PT100 sensors. One Type-K for measuring AIT’s post intercooler, the 2nd one for measuring the coolant temp’s between the chiller/heat exchanger and intercooler and the PT100 for measuring the reservoir coolant temp’s. All were ordered with a 1/8 NPT thread.
Sensors (Thermocouple on the left and PT100 on the right)
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The reservoir already came from JHM with a pre-tapped 1/8 NPT port which houses a small brass cocktap, I guess its to drain the water should you want to do so but I never saw the need for that. Now that hole could be put to good use as I removed the brass tap and use that to house the PT100 sensor.
Reservoir Sensor Fitted
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In hindsight, the sensor in the line between the Chiller/heat Exchanger and the Intercooler I probably didn’t really needed but I made the effort to put it in place and its there so no harm done. Had a real hardtime to find a suitable sensor adaptor they were all to big so in the end had one locally made up by my machine shop which I drilled and tapped to accommodate the 2nd 1/8 threaded NPT Thermocouple sensor.
In-line Sensor Adaptor with Sensor fitted
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The sensor for measuring AITs after the intercooler has a bit of a long story to it. In short it’s working but I need to relocate it. The reading is both correct and wrong ??? Lol, that does sound confusing, let me try to explain.
I decided to installed in the actual intake manifold so I drilled and tapped a 1/8 NPT thread in the manifold :’( :’( :’( and installed the sensor. Once the car was up and running the reading from the sensor just didn’t make sense. At first I thought it was either a vFiz firmware or a malfunctioning sensor problem. Further testing yielded the same results but they were off, and that still need to be confirmed . With the Chiller engaged the intake temps read way higher than the reservoir coolant temps and my expectation was that it would be close if not lower. At least its reading much lower than the OEM AIT which sits before the blower which is expected but I am convinced it should be much lower.
My explanation for the problem, which I will put to the test over the next few weeks and report back is as follows. When I looked for a suitable spot to fit the sensor I didn’t wanted anythin showing and therefor anywhere at the top or front was not an option. I opted to mount it just after the throttle body which is completely hidden.
Ok, I am no expert but in layman terms, considering that the Thermocouple junction measure liquid or air flow across the exposed tip, I might have made a simple judgement error in the placement of the sensor in relation to the throttle body. Hopefully the pic will show it clearly but I placed it way to close to the throttle body and as a result the air flow gets diverted around the exposed junction and not across it. So it basically sits in a vacuum which could explain the higher as expected readings.
As said, I don’t have any concrete proof and still need to put that theory to the test and will do so by relocating the sensor to the silicone hose before the throttle body and use the existing hole for my Boost nipple.
Intake temp Sensor
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And as can be seen from the pic it was just pure luck that the placement of the sensor was placed in-line with the pivot point of the throttle valve itself as to not cause any interference. :o
So let me just show what I meant with the vFIZ system providing me with what I was looking for. Also keep in mind that the pics shown below was in the initial stages of testing and some of the values are completely wrong. The developer had to make some changes to his firmware to customize the external sensor names for me and we also identified incorrect polarity etc. on the device itself which skewed some of the readings. In the interim he did found a way around by making some changes to the firmware and reversing the wires on the external contacts to allow me to use and test the setup whilst getting a updated box ready for me which will ship out to me tomorrow.
But the layout and setup as seen is not going to change, that is firm as I requested but the nice thing about the whole setup is I can request name changes should I so wish.
I will show two separate runs with 2-3 pic’s each just to show the DIS and the readings of the sensors. As mentioned I am still testing so readings should be completely differrent a few weeks from now. Also keep in mind that some pics might display readings with the heat exchanger in the loop, I was playing around with the bypass valve whilst driving to ensure all is working as intended.
Explanation of the short display names so that it make sense.
KCT - In-line sensor reading of coolant between the Chiller and Intercooler.
RVCT - Sensor reading of reservoir coolant
IMAT - Intake manifold sensor reading
IAT - That is the OEM intake reading from the MAF before the blower, so that underhood intake temps
CJT - Ignore
KCT readings, something is wrong, doesn’t make sense so still looking into it.
RVCT readings, correct.
IMAT readings, as explained earlier, incorrect placement, will relocate soon
AIT readings., correct
Run 1
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Run 2
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Some additional information on the Bypass and Drag Valves and how I opted to control them. Pretty obvious from the initial pic’s of the kit and also thereafter that I opted for the electric options. They Bypass valve is available in a manual option as well but that require you to fit the valve somewhere convenient so that you can reach down and switch the valve manually. Not an option I was keen to do but given the location of my valve absolutely not possible.
Kincaid does provide you with 2 x button switches but I opted to keep the look and feel OEM and had two switches made up to match the look of the other switches. They were hooked up to two small latching relays to make sure I don’t run into any electrical issues down the line. The relays are driven by two fuse taps from the main fuse box which only draw power when the car is switched on so no change of malfunctioning switches draining the battery or starting an electricall fire.
I have limited pic’s about the whole setup and the wiring but I will get some more and update when I relocate the intake manifold sensor. I manage to snap two pics of the switches whilst installing.
Drag & Bypass Valve Switches
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There are no words for how awesome and exciting this is. Your a great ambassador for the platform. I have mentioned a few times I was lucky enough to work and drive a stage 2 JHM supercharged car they are amazing. Add in what you have done and its an entire new level of awesome.
Incredible work.
Thank you, much appreciated!!
Just some cool pic’s from the underhood fittings, proof that the chiller is actually doing its thing, considering that these pics were taken in our summer they should get down to some ice flakes/drop’s come winter.
Coolant Fittings
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Just another interesting comparison I did and I am not putting it out there as fact. This is purely for my testing and data and I am just sharing it here out of interest.
I did a dyno run last year middle of winter on a real hart breaker dyno and went back last week with chiller to compare. And for the sake of sanity and to not skew the proven whp figures we know these Stage 1+ cars constantly produce, I won’t quote actual numbers but just the interesting bits that are applicable to this thread.
WHP loss between Run 1 & 2
Winter Run(102 Octane) - 6whp.
L/week Run(95/Pump Gas) - 2.7whp.
WHP Difference between Winter run(102 Octane) and last week(95/Pump Gas)
Run 1 - 15whp increase over Winter run
Run 2 - 18whp increase over Winter run
For what it’s worth last weeks run was done with the AC running as well.
Ok, so with all being said and done, what is my opinion on the Chiller and what still need to be address.
Overall I am satisfied with the results and about 98% of the product. The unit itself is absolutely sized spot on for my requirements considering the space constraints and the JHM Stage 1+ Supercharger setup. The electric 3 Way Bypass Valve is junk and overpriced. Kincaid should look at that and replace with a different unit. Then there is also the question on the Drag Valve, do we need 1 or 2? See comments lower down. Of more importance is the question whether the product delivers as intended and advertised? I have to say yes, and I am making my assessment and judgement based purely on my needs and car with its current mod list. You need to understand what you are buying and I believe in this respect Kincaid has outlined the product quite well.
If you are looking for an out and out performance mod then this is not for you. Go spend your money somewhere else. What this will do on a JHM Supercharged Stage 1+ RS4, is lowering intake temps significantly. It’s good for the motor and that’s all I need to know. However, I also know from logging that the tune does pull a fair amount of timing and with good intention and safety in mind. I am not going to get into those details because firstly, I am not educated enough to do so and secondly this is not what the thread is about. But here is where this mod will give back power, please note, give back not add! It will allow the tune to give back some of that timing which will result in more power and I believe the dyno test confirmed that theory. But that’s a bonus, the motor just loves that cold air and I can physically feel the difference it makes whilst driving.
As is the system runs about 95% as intended, what’s missing to complete the picture is a 2nd two way Drag Valve that needs to be installed in the High Side/Liquid line. Jimmy experienced and described a similar problem in his Chiller feedback and I ran into the same problem. The single Drag Valve on the low side line doesn’t work on these cars. Bypassing the cabin also shuts off the AC and until I get the additional valve shipped to me from Kincaid the Drag option is currently not being used. Once installed that should bring down the temps even further similar to what Jimmy experienced. That begs the question of do we really need the Drag valve on the low side line? I don’t know and given the trouble I had to get it installed there is no chance in hell of me removing that now to test, perhaps at a later stage. Then there are all sorts of additional shielding and wrapping one can add to the hoses, intercooler and reservoir to extract extra cooling, but I am not going to go to that length. As is, it meet my needs and expectations and is more than enough for my use which is mainly on the street.
Thanks to everyone that followed/read the thread and once I have addressed the outstanding issues or have more useful information I will update the thread accordingly.
Just so I can better unerstnad what you posted. In the winter there was a small drop in power on back to back runs before the KC unit. This time with the KC unit there was a small drop on power on the back to back runs but its was about 1/2 of what it was before.
BUT with less octane on hotter temps the KC unit allowed the car to make more overall hp by almost 20whp.
Was this 20whp and no TQ gain… With the added hp was it all over the rpm range…
To summarize your last post. The KC unit isn’t a bit hp making add on. Its is an add on to keep the car out of heatsoak longer than before without it… Would you say that’s accurate.
You have summarized it spot on and the 20whp was peak power.
Torque figure gains were minimal, 1st pull resulted in the same but the 2nd pull did produce 4nm more.
It won’t give you more HP than what you already have in the car. All in all the KC will keep you out of heatsoak longer and it will bring those intake temps down so much faster if you have done some hard pulls.
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The dyno comparrison was done out of curiosity just to measure whether there would be any gains. And my test definitely indicate so but as mentioned before it would only give back some of the power that you normally loose due to heatsoak, it won’t add power which you don’t already have in the car. If that make sense ;D
Thank you rs4fan for posting all of this information. I have not posted much in a long time because I have been extremely busy with a lot of things.
Your install looks great and hopefully you have the soleniod valve by now. It really does make a difference with being able to switch into single zone for maximum cooling.
I installed my temp sensor in the side of the intercooler by the outlet so that I got the most consistent readings that I could with the least effort.
Would recommend that you lower how much AC refrigerant is in your car. My AC compressor died recently so I am having to replace it. Thank you very much for the lifetime warranty through FCP! To try to prevent this from happening again I going to lower how much refrigerant that I am using to keep the pressures more in line with what the stock numbers are. Over the past weekend a friend of mine let me borrow his car to check everything and on his car I saw 30 psi on the low side and 155-160 psi on the high side so I am going to try to mirror that. Before I had something like 37-40 psi on the low side and 155-160 on the high side. Those pressure readings are by using manifold gauges that hook to the service fittings. The vagcom pressure readings were like 12 bar stock vs 14 bar for mine in similar 50 degrees F conditions.
No problem, I did noticed your absence. ;D
[quote]Your install looks great and hopefully you have the soleniod valve by now. It really does make a difference with being able to switch into single zone for maximum cooling.
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Thanks Jimmy, and No, haven’t received the solenoid as yet, really disappointing, will call Joe again he doesn’t respond on my emails. 
[quote]Would recommend that you lower how much AC refrigerant is in your car. My AC compressor died recently so I am having to replace it. Thank you very much for the lifetime warranty through FCP! To try to prevent this from happening again I going to lower how much refrigerant that I am using to keep the pressures more in line with what the stock numbers are. Over the past weekend a friend of mine let me borrow his car to check everything and on his car I saw 30 psi on the low side and 155-160 psi on the high side so I am going to try to mirror that. Before I had something like 37-40 psi on the low side and 155-160 on the high side. Those pressure readings are by using manifold gauges that hook to the service fittings. The vagcom pressure readings were like 12 bar stock vs 14 bar for mine in similar 50 degrees F conditions.
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Thanks, will check those refrigerant levels again but if my memory serves me right we loaded with around 17-19oz’s or 550ml. Not sure what the pressures are though, I did check ones with Vagcom and I saw figures of both 14 & 16 Bar, must be those you are referring too! Now will the RS4 and S4 be similar in that regard?
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Time to update, at long last manage to sort the gremlins with the vFiz system and my sensors out so I am now totally satisfied with the placement of the sensors and the readings. The temps have been verified with an external meter and readings correspond with the temps from the vFiz which confirms that the firmware and internal calibrations are correct.
For reference I am just going to re-post my Sensor names as displayed on the DIS by the vFiz system. Also added the Boost sensor which I now have connected.
Explanation of the short display names so that it make sense.
KCT - In-line sensor reading of coolant between the Chiller and Intercooler.
RVCT - Sensor reading of reservoir coolant
IMAT - Air intake Sensor Post Intercooler
IAT - The OEM intake reading from the MAF sensor before the blower, so that’s underhood intake temps
BST - Boost reading from the Intake Manifold
In the previous pics of the temp readings all readings were skewed except for the RVCT(Reservoir Water) sensor. I also mentioned at the time that Mario from Qmatis was in the process of shipping over a new system to me which I now have installed in the car.
Before I post some pics just an update on the changes I made and the work rounds to fix the things I weren’t satisfied with.
Firstly, the new vFiz fixed the skewed reading from the in-line temp sensor between the Chiller and the Intercooler. Common sense suggested that it should read a few degrees cooler than the Reservoir sensor, which it didn’t >:( The Thermocouple manufacturer wasn’t concerned as it was within parameters but it irritated the hell out of me ??? Anyway, all good now as can be seen from the pics below.
Secondly, as mentioned before, in my haste to get all the sensors installed I placed the sensor for the IATs after the Intercooler just behind the throttlebody :
Bad placement, as explained before the Throttlebody butterfly diverted air flow away from the sensor probe so those reading were way off. Moved that sensor to the intake silicone hose between the Intercooler and Manifold and the results speak for itself ;D
Last but not least, fortunately I never hooked up a Boost sensor when I did the initial install so I could now use the vacant tapped hole in the manifold, that use to house the IAT sensor, for my boost pickup. Got a suitale NPT boost nipple and hooked that up to the vFiz boost sensor.
Display of DIS with new vFiz - In Garage
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On the Road
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Ok, so what’s outstanding? The current system still run “Dual Zone” only, meaning both the Chiller and the Cabin is getting cooled down. As per Jimmy’s writeup I ran into the same problem when switching the Drag Valve to bypass the cabin to enable Single Zone. As intended the cabin does get bypassed but the the Chiller temps also started rising instead of getting colder. The solution is to install another Solenoid on the High Side of the AC system anywhere before the orifice tube. Jimmy explained that in his writeup as well so that’s something I still need to do.
As things would have it though, the long overdue Solenoid eventually got deliverred today from Joe @Kincaid so I need to find the time and energy to pull the bumper again to get that installed. Will report back again once that’s done. Based on Jimmy’s tests I do expect the temps to go down even lower due to all the AC coolant being directed toward the Chiller.
But, as things stand I am pretty satisfied with the results of the system, definitely a must do mod for any boosted car with a separate Air to Water intercooler setup.
amazing work…and amazing results!!!
well done my friend!!! will be in touch for my order!! excellent cooling effect.
have you measured the the advance gains?