Badger's Timing Adventure

B6/7 S4/RS4
#1

Hey guys. After long hours of reviewing timing threads and woes and DIYs and finding what I can, I am just about ready to drop the order for my timing components. I have planned to do the work (pull engine+trans) starting March 28. However there are still a couple questions I’d like answers for before diving in. This is being done as preventative. I haven’t jumped timing yet (knock on wood.)

Background Info:
2005 B6 S4
163,500 miles
Compression test results here: http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=727.msg94440#msg94440

Scope of Work Planned:

  1. Replace timing components and mechanical adjusters
  2. Oil check valve service
  3. Change motor and transmission mounts
  4. Piggie Pipes

Parts List:

  1. JHM Intermediate Kit
  2. Valve Cover Gaskets
  3. ECS Oil Check Valve Kit
  4. Motor mounts w/ resistors
  5. Transmission mounts
  6. Rear Main Seal
  7. Exhaust manifold gaskets
  8. Flange Sealant (“50ml Tube for Rear Cover, Oil Pan, Girdle”)

My questions! Some of these might be stupid or obvious and I missed the answers in all my research. If so, sorry!
1. Do I need any other exhaust gaskets to do piggies?

2. Will I need to drain transmission fluid at all? I know I need to disconnect the cooler lines but do I need to drain any more before taking it off the engine to get to the timing components?

3. Maybe the stupidest question, do I need to drain engine oil before pulling the engine and doing timing? I am assuming yes but not 100% sure. Literally just changed it all like a month ago so I’d like to avoid it if possible.

4. Timing tools: JHM kit has a “crank holder/pin”. ECS does not seem to offer this tool. Is it required?
—4a. Does anyone want to rent me the tools? I would want them next week until the week after Easter or so.

5. Since I am just getting the intermediate kit, do I need the “cam chain tensioner gasket cyl 1-4” and “cam chain tensioner gasket cyl 4-8”?

6. Any good resources or DIYs out there for removing the subframe? What bolts to buy, if any, etc. I haven’t looked through the Bentley on this part yet but plan to.

7. Did I miss anything obvious? Parts or tools? Any other tips?

Thanks in advance for any help. I have the Bentley CD already and the motor pull DIY already printed off. I hope to update this thread (or start another?) when I start work and document my progress/issues as I go.

#2

Welcome to the site your in the right place. Give me a few min I’ll type out a longer response to all your questions.

#3

Instructions and proper tools are MOST important. Follow the procedures verbatim and stop if you get frustrated. If you have any questions come here and post or PM us. If you are confused about torqueing procedures also ask for clarity.

I would read through everything before hand, make a list of questions and we may be able to help with tips and pictures.

#4

Updates after talking with JHM:

  1. Not doing piggies at this time. I don’t have the JHM tune planned yet (no catback or anything anyway) and I don’t have the tools to relocate the main O2 sensors to downstream the main cats. And I don’t want to mess with codes.

  2. They have the rental tools available so I am going to rent from them.

#5

Yes get the tools from them. You can get everything you need from jhm even the oil check valve kit. The oil check valve is snake oil tho. I wouldn’t waste the money. The check valves can get clogged but that’s so rare and it takes less then 5 second to fix it. You should save your money and time. You can even check to see if your valves are bad by draining the oil and pulling the oil filter housing. I’ll try to post a picture so you can see.

You also don’t need exhaust manifold gaskets. Even if you do piggies.

1 no
2 I’d didn’t see if your an auto or manual
3 yes
4 yes get everything from jhm they can rent you tools
5 I think yes but ask jhm what they think. If you get the kit from them they will give you everything you need
6 check the DIY section on this site. JimmyBones has put up tons of content
7 that looks good come back and ask if you have more questions. There are lots of sites but this one has all the technical guys and most of us have done the job your doing already and helped others. So don’t be shy with questions

#6

Thanks for the quick response. I have an auto trans.

Re: exhaust gaskets, I described them incorrectly. I am under the impression I need to separate the exhaust at two locations to (1) get the motor out and (2) access the timing covers.

(1) is the connection between the downpipes and catback (uses clamps)
https://jhmotorsports.com/shop/catalog/clamp-exhaust-oe-type-downpipe-to-cat-back-54mm-or-2125-in-p-654.html

(2) is the connection between the exhaust manifold and downpipe (uses gasket)
http://www.ecstuning.com/ES436570/

#7

Parts ordered!! Work in T-4 days. Also, additional question re: piggies.

Am I correct in assuming I have 4 options for DIY piggies (gutting pre-cats ONLY):

1.) Do not touch O2 sensors at all. This will result in constant CEL

2.) Add spacers to the two rear O2 sensors (just upstream - engine side) of main cats. This is temporary fix to hold off CEL, but will not last.

3.) Move two rear O2 sensors from upstream/engine side to downstream of main cats. This will require lengthening the wire, fabricating new bungs, and plugging old bungs. This will keep the CEL off.

4.) Do not touch O2 sensors but get JHM tune. Tune will ignore code and keep CEL off.

Are these assumptions and the outcomes correct for each scenario? Or do I need the rear O2 sensors moved regardless of tune or not to keep the engine running correctly?

Thanks,

#8

AFAIK, all of those assumptions are correct. I would do the piggies now while the engine is out. Even if you don’t have tune or cat back planned for the near future, it helps keep unnecessary heat out of the engine bay which is better for long term engine health. From what I have heard there are’t really any issues with using the spacers on the rear 02’s, I wouldn’t hesitate to do it anyway.

I guess the way I look at it is like this (hypothetically): You spend all this money doing the timing service, don’t do the piggies, put it back together and then clog a pre-cat. Now you’re going to be pulling the DP’s off again to do what you could have done easily (and for free) while the engine was out. But in the end, it comes down to whatever you’re comfortable with.

#9

Yes, that is my line of thinking. Especially with a tip, if I don’t do piggies now I will likely not do them, ever. But I am not sure how soon I will be able to get the tune.

I am not super concerned about running with a CEL for a few months - my chief concern, if I do not tune, or use spacers, or relocate (basically leave all O2 sensors stock), would this negatively affect the engine running/management? Or is the only consequence simply a CEL?

#10

There are no gaskets for the exhaust other than the actual exhaust manifold gaskets that mate to the head.

#11

Then what is #3 on this picture:
http://genuineaudiparts.com/parts/2005/Audi/S4/Base?siteid=214407&vehicleid=184632&diagram=1398420

#12

That is the dp flange gasket normally you can just reuse the original one.

On the piggies and no tune. The car will be fine but your not going to get the best fuel mileage until you get the jhm tune. It helps add the power and the fuel economy. Other then that you will be stuck with a cel until you get the jhm tune

#13

Thanks for the answers!

I think I am going to do the piggies while I have access, and then use the CEL to convince my better half I need the tune ;D :stuck_out_tongue: - so I will NOT need to relocate any O2 sensors.

…so anyone near KY that wants to help pull an engine this weekend? And bring along a JHM cable? :o

#14

Great idea. I know JimmyBones lives in the sticks he might be close pm him he is very good

#15

JimmyBones lives in about the opposite of the sticks. He lives right off the beltway in Northern VA.

Do the Autos have DP flange gaskets? My manual S4 never had gaskets, but I guess I was wrong.

#16

He lives in the sticks quit trying to glamerize VA. Lol jk I just new he lived south but not in Florida. Someone said they lived in Tennessee and Jimmy helped them. So it was just a guess

But yes the dps have gaskets at the manifold connections

#17

Most of VA is the sticks other than northern VA outside Washington DC. It is fairly built up suburbs for the most part. I wish that I could move because winter sucks and I would rather be in Florida where it never snows.

I am actually about to start my timing service and other big repairs/modifications soon.

#18

Hurry up with that, we need to meet up soon.

#19

Well regardless of what does and does not qualify as the sticks, I am starting the project this evening.

Had a hell of an experience with JHM over the last two days, since they messed up the order I placed the other week. They recalled my box the day it was supposed to get here, so I was forced to shell out $100+ extra in shipping and drop two parts from the order just to have them re-ship everything a week late. >:( >:( Jake apparently did what he could, but overall the experience really sucked. Not exactly how I wanted to kick this project off.

Oh well. Stay tuned. Hope to have the motor out and apart Sunday or Monday.

#20

Oh man that sucks. Let us know how the motor pull goes and feel free to let us know if you run into any issues or have any questions