Badger's Timing Adventure

B6/7 S4/RS4
#21

Motor is out! Wasn’t so bad. I am afraid getting in back is in gonna be bout 100x harder.

http://i.imgur.com/pEobRa3.jpg

Questions I have now:

  1. Are there holes for an engine stand? I see two that might work… two is not enough. And anyone know what size threads they are??

  2. If no engine stand capability, whats a safe place to support the engine+trans to separate them and then do all the work? Anyone have pics of they supported it all once its out?
    —I don’t really want to set it all on the trans or oil pans. Or is that OK? I was thinking of fabbing some haphazard 2x4 gimmick to mimic the special engine table as shown in the bentley, but don’t know if that will work.

  3. The rear coolant hose connector broke at the engine at like 2" of separation from the firewall before I could get to it to disconnect. Is this the correct replacement part? Any way to just get the plastic connector rather than the whole hose?
    http://www.ecstuning.com/ES441708/

#22

Also, my downpipes are in pretty rough shape. Is there a way to repair that flex joint? The sheathing on mine is separated and it’s looking pretty bad.

#23

1 don’t use an engine stand with an aluminum block. So don’t use an engine stand.
2 put a piece of wood under the snub mount and then one right under where r he transmission and block meet. That’s a great place to prop the motor.
3 that looks like it should do the trick.
4 show how bad it is. I have seen some nasty condition flex joints that were still able to hold on.

#24

Excellent, thanks. I have support where the trans and motor meet already (not shown in the pic i posted), just needed a good spot on the front. snub mount, duh.

I will get a pic up of the exhaust later this afternoon. The actual expansion joint looks ok maybe (very rusty) but the SS braid is all garbage.

#25

Ok, got some pics finally. I think I’m about ready to start cleaning and disassembly!

Exhaust expansion joints

Drivers Side Pic 1

http://i.imgur.com/zSlZOJ0.jpg

Drivers Side Pic 2

http://i.imgur.com/LDMWZiQ.jpg

Passenger Side Pic 1

http://i.imgur.com/fFebIaR.jpg

Passenger Side Pic 2

http://i.imgur.com/bFuLeiZ.jpg

And my homemade engine+trans stand:

http://imgur.com/a/zIgRq#PLVtrI2

http://i.imgur.com/jSR0Zsa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZSDtRge.jpg

DPs:

Album here http://imgur.com/a/zIgRq/all

#26

That outer braided section is helpful and it definitely needs to be repaired depending on how long you plan to ride with the stockers. Catless dps are a big help if you can grab some. If you plan on keeping the stock ones on for a while hit them hard with penetrating oil. Look for the oils that leave behind a slick coating like PB blaster. That should help keep them in good shape.

If your mechanical work is as good as your wood work your going to be fine. Thank about getting the light weight crank pulley and auto tensioner from jhm while your in there. It’s a great time to replace it and it’s much better then the stock unit.

#27

I do have plenty of PB Blaster, I’ll soak them good. I wouldn’t mind catless DPs but just don’t have time to wait for parts as this is my DD.

I’m thinking piggies will have to do for now, and just hope the expjts hold.

Unrelated, is there a DIY or good guide anywhere for separating the trans + motor? I might get more clear once I get the electrical harness off but a guide is always helpful.

#28

Getting the transmission off is simple. I’ll tell you and if you snap pictures we can make a DIY after your done to help others if you want.

Most important thing before you start or remove any bolts number the bolts starting with the number 1 on the farthest lowest bolt located on the driver side. Get a paint marker or permanent black marker. The bolts are different lengths and of you get it wrong on reassembly your in bad shape. You can crack the back of the mounting flange.

So start with the number one in the driver side and mark each one all the way to and including the starter bolts with its number of location. When you removed the bolts just make sure room boldly right there number in them.

There are 3 8 mm bolts on the opposite side of the transmission at the very lower part where the transmission and block meet. Your going to want to remove them first.

Them remove the wire harness for the reverse switch and speed sensor.

After that take put bolt 1 and the bolt I think 12 or the first bolt on the left side and the last bolt on he right side. Go back and forth working the bolt removal out until you get to the very top pull those two last tip bolts out and pull directly back. You might need to rock and twist the transmission to get the input shift to come out but it will come out over time. You can rotate the transmission and rock the transmission slightly up and down but be careful rocking the transmission from left to right. It’s hard to break the input shift but you can do damage if your not careful

#29

Wow what a day. Got the rest of the coolant lines off, IM off, DPs off, transmission off, and timing covers off. I owe my dad a steak dinner and some beer for helping today. I dropped the DPs at the local exhaust shop; they think they can replace the flex joints and relocate the rear O2 sensor bungs.

Some comments/questions/clarifications:

1. On the DPs, is there an exact spot for the rear sensors to go or just somewhere in that general triangular plane immediately downstream of the cats?

2. How deep does the crank pin go? It seems the diameter is too large to actually seat all the way. This is how far in it got. I put some paint on the tip and ran it in, It does NOT seem to bottom out in the guide hole, it stays about 1/4" out. Is that normal?

http://i.imgur.com/akB2XsN.jpg/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/zLOWSLy.jpg

3. For the cam shaft locking bars. Bank 1 went in smooth. Bank two was just a smidge out. I tried the rotate 360 as recommended in bentley, twice, but couldn’t get the bank 2 bar to go in across all slots. It would go in half of each cam bolt, if that makes sense. They were maybe 1/2 mm, maybe less, off from parallel. Took a crescent wrench to each one to push it just enough to get the locking bar to seat properly across each entire bolt head on camshaft of that side. Was strange, didn’t know if this was normal or not. Got them both in though. Crank pulley was lined up TDC, I think the crankshaft pin went in as much as it should.

4. The gratification and justification!! Guide was very cracked in the expected spot, and there is actually another crack about an inch down, partially through. If that had gone through the guide would’ve been defunct and I’d be SOL. It was at least good to see I didn’t tear everything apart for nothing!

http://i.imgur.com/LEQK68n.jpg

5. On the passenger side, the guide pin (?) for the timing cover. Is this RTV or an oring?

http://i.imgur.com/5gicIKA.jpg

Bonus Pics:

http://i.imgur.com/k9AIaaU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jwXRiZN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Od9D8OT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mnlJLXw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jpEXOYX.jpg

#30

Is clicking/adjusting like at ~:09 - 0:11 normal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcJqmU9WL00

#31

OK so to answer your questions

1 it needs to go just at the base of the main cat. Too far and you will get codes every now and then
2 the crank pin will bottom out but not go in all the way. The best way to test to make sure you have it right is to try and move the crank in both directions.
3 yes you need to often spin the cam a bit to get them to line up. Not abnormal
4 yes I’m thinking about making a must have must do thread. I don’t think people realize that guide is going to or has already cracked on most cars

#32

Someone posted this on AZ:

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q72/footwax/o%20rings%20on%20two%20tensioners%20for%20Audi%20S4.jpg

How crucial is this? I did not take the old one and move it to the new one. Does the JHM kit come with it installed already?

Looking at it purely mechanically:
I can see missing this seal being an issue on that center lower one, that doesn’t have a spring and relies solely on oil pressure to keep tension. But this tensioner has a spring. How much of the “tension” is provided by the spring vs the oil pressure? I can’t see it leaking by very much at all and losing any appreciable pressure. It’s a machine fit right next to bolts.

That said it is likely there for a reason. But just how critical is it? ???

#33

I think they just were posting to be relevant. The units should have come ready to install. I don’t ever remember transferring anything that almost makes no sense. I wouldn’t worry your right about the ones oil pressure fed. Even the oil pressure fed until has a reliever hole to bleed off oil pressure

#34

I hope so. There is some good discussion in the AZ thread I have going about it. I will try and do a final write for here when I am totally done.

#35

That’s all AZ guys will do is talk. I took a second look at what I believe are the parts you listed. Who ever posted you needed on rings on some of that stuff was just plain wrong. But so is 90% of the information you get on AZ.

#36

Jake from JHM mentioned he thinks they just re-use that little o-ring but I didn’t get anything more specific than that. So I doubt it comes preinstalled on the kit tensioner they sell. I don’t have any rattle in the 12-15 starts I’ve done so far.

Here is a fun one for you: I didn’t remove any other sprockets during the timing other than the mechanical adjusters. So I never removed any chains or unlocked the crank/cams as per the Bentley timing procedure requiring a +/- 30 deg cycle, etc. I think I saved a lot of time this way. Is this common? I didn’t mention it on AZ (don’t want to confuse anyone) but the way I did it I could not see a need to realign anything like that. I just marked the chains on the locked sprockets and swapped my adjusters, guides, and tensioners and made sure everything lined up again. I know it doesn’t matter for the lower two chains anyway.

#37

Not sure if it’s common, but I did pretty much the same thing.

#38

Good to know! :slight_smile:

I was reading through the procedures in Bentley and was like, man this seems a bit unnecessary. But I can see how it would all need to be done if changing the drive sprockets and/or chains themselves. I imagine anything beyond the “intermediate” kit would require full timing reset.

It was a bit tight to get the adjusters in and out without the other sprockets loose but not overtly difficult.

#39

justincredible,

Any interest in a brief DIY here? I didn’t take a ton of pics but I could probably write something up in the next couple weeks and try to capture the little stuff (i.e. sneaky O-rings) related to the timing job. Do you have a specific format or template to follow?

I could include:

  • Pulling motor+trans in a TIP car (anything I did different from the joeyC guide)
  • Parts list including the one time use bolts I did and did not know to buy up front
  • JHM ATF cooler install
#40

I definitely think we need a new DIY for all of this. Some thing new and here for sure. I’m game to help just let me know what you need. I say we should just follow how Jimmy does his DIY stuff. That’s all really good.

As for the guides. I have some old guides and stuff out in the garage. I looked at the backs of them and I think the person who said you needed O-rings is out of there mind.