Confirmed - B8/8.5 TFSI Carbon Buildup

B8 S4
#1

Well gents,

Carbon build is confirmed on our motors(not that it wasn’t already).

40,500 miles on the clock and intake valves look like this. While not as bad as the RS4s, clearly it starts, I imagine cars that are not injecting meth(intake or directly) will look worse. Don’t be too alarmed by these photos, it is NOT as bad as it looks. My mechanic is amazing and wanted to tackle this after I sent him the 3.0 TFSI PDF.

Before Cleaning:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/e5a2yvu3.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/e8e4upu3.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/nyme7u7e.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/ra4udaqy.jpg

After cleaning:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/udehaje7.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/e7e3a8ep.jpg

My tech is fabricating a PCV system that will block off the port that sits on the bottom of the supercharger, along with venting the lines coming off the valve covers.

Going to use this Moroso Breather Tank to collect the oil vapors from the valve covers.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/16/asujume7.jpg

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/mor-85473

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/ana7enyj.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/zymutyby.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/egavyvu5.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/e5esy6as.jpg

#2

Jeff, Good information thanks for sharing… Doesn’t look to bad really… What made you do the cleaning? Wonder how much it will impact performance?

#3

My mechanic really wanted to custom fab a catch/breather tank solution after I sent him the 3.0 TFSI document and asked him to review it.

Once he took the charger off he basically said: “I’m cleaning this…”

I’m impressed, I have one of the best mechanics ever.

#4

Nice! That’s pretty cool of him for sure… Will be interested to see how his setup works but you won’t know for a while… What was his method of cleaning them?

#5

Not sure, I’ve been stupid busy working 12 hour shifts. I believe soaking them though, I’ll confirm.

#6

Good stuff, thanks for the info and happy to hear Ray knows how to deal with it. So what are the negatives to plugging that valve? I don’t know enough about engines/oil systems to say anything intelligent or critical, only that there has to be a reason it is there. Can’t be only for emissions, right? How long did it take him to perform the cleaning? You just did this because, or felt you were losing power?

All my friends in engine research hypothesize that EGR has to be a contributor to carbon buildup, but they are pretty far removed from the real world. But we know any DI engine should develop carbon buildup issues on the intake valves simply because there is no fuel to clean them.

#7

Everything I have read would lead me to believe there are no negatives. Ray also agrees, everything will be sealed, so no unmetered air will enter. If it throws a code everything can be returned to stock. Car is in for nurmerous “projects”, so exact time on cleaning is unknown so far. He had 3 of 6 done when he sent me these pictures.

As stated, this is Ray’s initiative and what drove us to this point.

#8

sweet, yea mine looked about the same as your buildup. I wonder what effects on removing the port separators from the chambers would do. I know JHM takes them out when you use their intake spacers. Anyone know what purpose they serve?

Looking forward to seeing how the PCV mod comes out.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/384535-JHM-just-acquired-a-B7-RS4-for-more-R-amp-D-and-track-abuse-(Offiicial-build-thread)?p=6216990&viewfull=1#post6216990

http://jhmotorsports.com/products/pictures/IntakeSpacers/RS4/05_Remove_port_separator_plates_not_needed-with_spacers_installed.JPG

#9

I believe they work in combination with the manifold runner flaps under certain load, boost, etc… Directing airflow over the valves. What actual “purpose” this serves I do not know.

Should I take em out? :wink:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/16/7e5utata.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/16/yjabahag.jpg

#10

that buildup is child’s play :slight_smile:

Especially for 40,000 miles. Mine was done at around 40,000 as well and was double that. Despite it, my car ran the fastest stock RS4 time ever, so at half that level of carbon, I don’t think that should be choking anything for you guys. Good to clean it out for sure. I often worry about chunks making their way into the cylinder and ending up scoring a cylinder wall or something.

#11

I was thinking of taking them out on mine since i have the spacers from the meth, in sense it would be like the jhm spacer, kinda. someone needs to make a small piece of metal to fill the side gaps, i guess you could cut the plates, that way it will be a more smooth air flow going to the cylinder.

#12

Yes I was thinking the same thing, are there any spacers designed for our cars? Non metal, I understand the simple principle behind them, might help us out a little bit.

I know it increases velocity slightly, just wondering if removing the separators without a spacer would harm or benefit us.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/515271-De-flap-and-de-vaning-of-manifold-intake-with-install-of-manifold-spacer

#13

A phenolic spacer wouldn’t do anything as the flap assembly on our cars is plastic already so it won’t transfer much heat from the block.

#14

True,

I think we are going to remove the port separators and see what happens. I will do some logs and see if everything is the same. As long as no noticeable driveabity issues, and airflow is not hindered, I will leave them out.

Also edited first post showing the breather tank my tech is using.

#15

Not too bad on the carbon. Take out the spacers. I was told they’re just for idle and low speed air flow. I removed mine and felt the car ran better.

#16

DON’T use that Moroso breather tank. It is not baffled so the filter will be soaked with oil in no time. Use an Allstar performance catch can. They have baffles on the top to prevent oil mist from soaking the filter. Cobra guys do this mod all the time and everyone ends up throwing those junk Moroso tanks in the garbage. Also, do not install the catch can in the engine bay. Install it on one of the fenders if you can. If you install it in the engine bay, the HVAC system will pick up that blow by stink and from the catch can and your interior will smell like a dirty mechanic.

I just did the exact same thing on my car(03 cobra). Blocked off the PCV on the bottom of the intake manifold, and the ones feeding into the intake. Then I ran lines directly from the valve covers to the catch can.

Is there any PCV lines that dump into the intake before the supercharger? If there is then you should clean the intercooler. Cobras have the valve covers both venting before the blower so the oil mist clogs up the intercooler. It also eats away at the coating on the lobes of the supercharger itself. You can clean the intercooler with BG Intake System Cleaner in a spray bottle. Melts it right off.

86 the EGR if you can. Obviously tuning is needed to avoid a CEL. I think the majority of the carbon buildup comes from the EGR.

Another benefit of getting rid of the PCV system is that you lessen the chance of detonation caused by oil in the air/fuel mix. Oil lowers the octane of the air/fuel mix. Not a huge deal on the B8 since the ECU will pull timing accordingly but it’s still power lost.

#17

The moroso can does have a baffle to force the vapors to the bottom of the catch can and filter through the steel scrunchies which were also included.

Lines are being routed along the engine(no freezing), can will be mounted in right front bumper.

We have inspected the coolers built into the supercharger unit, they do have oil on them, cleaning that as well.

#18

I think I PM’ed you but if not.

Why did you take yours out? 3.0 TFSI? What exactly did you notice was “better”

Any insight would be helpful, thanks!

Also, did you block the circular slots the separators are held in place by?

#19

he has a 4.2 FSI

#20

What do you think Saks?

Any idea, or is it hit or miss?