Dyno Day: APR Stage 2, EPL Stage 2 with Dual Pulleys/E85, and EPL Stage 1

B8 S4
#1

Yes, yes… I know everyone hates the dyno, but here is a copy of my post from the other site. It’s interesting to look at none the less. I think, but whatever. Here it is…

I got together with two other local members today for some dyno runs (andthen and GRUMPY-S4 on here). We each made 3-4 passes on a Mustang dyno in various states of tune. Let me get this out of the way… Dynos are a tool to use for tuning and logging. That’s it. Please don’t try to compare these results to results from any other dyno, or read too much into it. Just take them for what they are. Our 1/4 mile strip is closed, and more than anything we wanted to do some logging to see how everything is working right now. The dyno is a great place for that.

Here are some details on the dyno.
Location: PRT Performance in Lewisville, TX
Type: Mustang AWD Dyno
Conditions: 45 degrees F, 100% humidity. Corrections for conditions were used. Corrected numbers were considerably lower than actual due to the cool temps.

This Mustang dyno reads low by most people’s standards. It’s known as a heartbreaker locally. I’ve now dynoed on it several times including several different stock B8/B8.5 S4’s, and it has always been amazingly consistent. Every single stock vehicle has dynoed in the 265-270 awhp range. For another point of reference, a new Dodge Charger SRT (392 Scat Pack) came by as we were finishing up, and dynoed at 347 whp/378 wtq (they are rated at 485hp/475tq). He was pretty heartbroken… By all accounts, this dyno reads about 10% lower than the common DynoJets in the area.

Here is a link to the results from several other B8/B8.5 S4’s that have dynoed on this same dyno: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/619767-Stage-2-Dyno-Results-2014-GIAC-V1-and-V2-2014-Revo-2012-APR

OK, with the formalities out of the way, here are the results. I also logged all three cars. I’m not going to post the logs here because it brings up a lot of wannabe tuner conversations, but if you’re truly interested in the logs, shoot me a PM, and I’ll see if the owners are willing to share.

Grumpy’s 2015 DSG. 93 octane. Thanks to EPL’s flash at home setup, we were able to easily test the stock and stage 1 tunes.
Stock tune, APR DSG tune, APR intake (1/21/2016): 268 awhp / 283 awtq
EPL stage 1 tune, APR DSG tune, APR intake (1/21/2016): 337 awhp / 341 awtq


http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss146/jran76/Scan%20Jan%2021-2_zpsbu12y880.jpg

Comments: The stage 1 tune gained 69 awhp and 58 ft/lbs. If you’re still driving an untuned car, you’re missing out!!! We also only drove the car on the dyno for about 10 minutes to let the stage 1 tune adapt. It would have probably gained a little more power if it had more time to adapt, and if the car was a little cooler (temps were cold today, so heatsoak wasn’t a huge issue as we kept an eye on coolant temps and IAT’s).

jran76’s 2012 DSG. 93 octane. The dyno graph is comparing today’s runs with previous runs for October 2014.
APR stage 2 V2, AWE exhaust, CTS intake (10/11/2014): 349 awhp / 335 awtq
APR stage 2 V3, APR DSG tune, AWE exhaust, Alpha coolant system, ECS intake (1/21/2016): 383 awhp / 351 awtq


http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss146/jran76/Scan%20Jan%2021_zpssyrw0urh.jpg

Comments: The new (V3.x) APR tune and DSG picked up 34 awhp and 16 ft/lbs. The coolant system was new, but it didn’t play much of a role today due to the low temps. Obviously, I’m very happy with the changes.

andthen’s 2012 DSG. Mostly E85 (maybe a little 93 octane mixed in).
EPL stage 2 for E85, APR DSG tune, Autotech HPFP upgrade, JHM overdrive crank pulley, Roc-Euro intake (1/21/2016): 414 awhp / 413 awtq


http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss146/jran76/Scan%20Jan%2021-3_zpsafrqqa34.jpg

Comments: Holy torque monster. Here you rally see the gains from the second pulley with massive torque gains up top. andthen has done some 1/8 mile passes that work out to mid-11 times, and this gives you a pretty idea why.

Just to compare, here is andthen’s graph (red) overlaid on top of my graph (black). The big difference being the dual pulley setup (worth an extra 2-3 psi of boost), and E85 (worth an extra 4-5 degrees of timing).

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss146/jran76/Scan%20Jan%2021-4_zpsuefaljgu.jpg

#2

Nice! Good stuff josh…

Nice numbers for your car… Huge pickup… You don’t think the intake change factored in? You should hit the strip with andthen!

Andthens car put down some impressive numbers! TQ is crazy… Did he bypass or pull timing up top or did they let off on the dyno? The numbers could have actually been higher if he went to 7k… He may get the record Saturday…

I’d love to see the logs if those two are ok with it? Again great stuff and good comparison!

#3

I think he just let off a little. There was a little bit of timing pull up around there, but like 1-2 degrees, and no bypass. I’m cleaning up the logs now (both of ours are in the same file), and I’ll send them to you when I’m done making sense of them.

He doesn’t think he quite has what it takes to get the record, but it will be interesting to see. The strip is almost 5 hours away and I have some things to do this weekend, so I can’t make it (I tried…). We’ll both hit the strip in March when our local one opens. It’s stupid that it’s closed. Today was probably the coldest day we’ve had, and the high was 45F. Next week we’re in the 60’s all week.

I logged the CTS and ECS on back to back nights in almost identical conditions, and everything I logged looked almost exactly the same except IAT’s were maybe 2-3 degrees cooler with the ECS. I also made some 1/8-mile passes with each a few weeks apart in similar conditions, and I was within 0.05 seconds and almost identical trap speeds on my best times with each.

#4

So did you guys do any friendly side by side pulls? If not,that’s gay

#5

It was raining pretty hard today. Soon though…

#6

is there ever a dyno where people don’t say ‘This dyno is known as a heartbreaker’

?

#7

Oh, that’s a good reason not to. Make sure someone has a GoPro when you do…side by side acceleration paints a nice picture.

#8

I’m no dyno expert, but I think DynoJets typically read considerably higher than Mustang and Dyno Dynamics (probably the three most common types). I’ve dynoed on both this Mustang and a DynoJet, and the DynoJet was about 50awhp higher with similar mods. For me personally, it’s a great place to log in a somewhat controlled environment. I went along this time because andthen was testing out a few tune revisions before he hits the strip this weekend.

Those disclaimers are really there because some jackass will come out and say “XYZ put down 500hp with his Malone tune so your cars sucks…” I wish I could link the B8 S4 Facebook discussions where people ask which tune to go with it, and it turns into the same 10 guys comparing dyno numbers from 10 different dynos every time… It’s a trip.

#9

I don’t think you need to worry about anyone doing that here.

#10

Most of that was obviously directed at the AZ crowd.

I know dyno results are not a popular topic of discussion. Like almost everything I end up in the middle of, I have mixed feelings about it. I think it’s a great tool for tuning and testing. I have done a lot of that, and it is much better than doing it on the street in many cases. It’s also a tool that often gets misused and/or twisted in the wrong way. Unfortunately, my dyno posts probably don’t do a lot to help that issue, but I do think it’s information that should be shared. If people don’t get it, they probably don’t get a lot of things. Like I said in the post, take it for what it is.

#11

Yeah, the logs look good… Both cars did very well… great IAT’s, nice timing, and no bypass = great #'s… His car is making some very nice tq down low and I can feel that on my car as well which is why I think I’m now able to cut sub 1.6x 60’s… He should be able to as well, he just needs to really really shallow stage… Can’t wait to see his run results, the track is at a low elevation so he may get great DA’s… Sucks it’s so far away for you guys…

Yeah, now that you mention it I remember us talking about the intake stuff… Either way I bet your car is in the 11.7x-11.8x range now in good DA! Thanks again for putting this together! Great example of how the dyno should be used and what it can show…

#12

Thought Tony made a good post… I feel he has marketed his product well, been active on the forum in a positive manner, and so far produced results with his product. Tuning at home is no doubt a good way he is differentiating himself and getting people to purchase his product and now with some of the results we’ve seen looking favorable he’s going to do very well, just look at his group buy. I think it’s good for everyone anyway. Someone needs to get him a dual pulley car… lol

Looking forward to andthen’s runs Sat. with the right DA he’s going to be real fast!

[QUOTE=Tony@EPL;11347542]First off… Thank you for putting together a great post. Good data from different cars, set ups, but most importantly same dyno and same day.

Quote Originally Posted by jran76 View Post

The EPL stage 1 car suffered there because it didn’t have the smaller pulley, and the bypass opened a little up top. I’m sure that is something EPL will address, but based on the timing and everything else, I don’t think you’ll see a huge gain. There probably is a little power to be had there for sure, and it may change the shape of the graph or whatever….
So by design… the file opened its by pass at a requested torque value JUST above gas stage 1 power. I don’t shoot for significant power gains on files that support “mixed” fuels. I mainly focus on smooth and constant power delivery when e85 is present. You would have seen fairly similar power on 93 honestly. You saw a fair amount of timing advance up top because load was lower do to boost being reduced based on calculated torque. Its actually cool to see in a “proof of concept” how smart these ECU’s are when you don’t just remove all the safe guards that are in place.

Quote Originally Posted by jran76 View Post

The EPL stage 2 dual pulley/E85 car ran out of juice because the S/C was completely maxed out. It’s not designed for that much pressure and flow, and there are diminishing returns once you get to that point. I think you can tell from the logs and dynos that it’s not able to push much additional air through once it gets past 6000 RPM’s or so.
I think I have an interesting “fix” for this when I have time to play with a dual pulley car on my dyno. It also looks like its possible that they just let off the throttle a little early as well!

I wish you were making the drive down with Tom tomorrow… It would be awesome to see both your cars run on the same day just a few days after you measured power on the dyno!
[/quote]

#13

Looks like low-50’s temperature and sunny skies tomorrow. The track is open from 11AM to 5PM, and the DA should be around -300 to -800 depending on the exact conditions. I wish I could make it… This is Lonestar Motorsports Park in Sealy, TX (outside of Houston). It is IHRA certified, but not NHRA certified. Not entirely uncommon around here.

http://www.lonestarmotorsportspark.com/tech-info/

The two things I’ll give EPL is the flash at home is pretty cool, and the fact he’s willing to do some custom tuning. That may not mean a lot in terms of results, but both offer some added flexibility, and that’s probably a good niche for a smaller tuner. He made a killing off the group buy for what amounted to $1200 all-in for the tune, pulley, and flashing cable.

#14

andthen ran an 11.407@119.74 with a 1.618 60’ time. I don’t know all the details, but pretty quick.


http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss146/jran76/C5A0D564-8668-42B2-9D36-AB7DB90266A4_zpsbewe8bkh.jpg

Edit: that was with APR LC at 4500 rpm. -872 DA. Said it hooked up great, and shifted with no issues. He tried a pass without LC, and did an 11.55. Wheels are Advanti HY Hybris and 255/40/18 PSS’s. Should be about 45 lbs. He’s on stock brakes, so LW rotors should help. He weighs about 250 lbs.

Just talked to Tom. Full weight except spare and tools, half tank of gas. Other mods are above with his dyno. It’s kinda cool to see the times and dyno together. Pretty good for a ECU/DSG tunes, couple pulleys, a fuel pump upgrade, intake, and LW wheels. He has about $6000 in upgrades.

#15

Very good indeed

#16

that’s pretty awesome. EPL tuned right ?

Funny that he also ran exactly what primetime ran. 11.40.

He’s down on MPH a bit.

#17

looks like he could eventually get into 11.3x’s with less gas in the tank. (maybe a smaller/lighter driver too, no offense lol).

That 60ft time is Tesla Model S P85D! very nice!

#18

seems like half the dragracers on the forum weighs 225+

lots of really tall Audi owners for some reason. We had a thread a while back about headroom in the B7 and like 20 guys checked in at over 6’2" and talked about how they find the space.

#19

Tom (andthen) and I made it to the track last night. The DA was in the 400-800 range, and track prep was so-so. Being the first open night, cars were breaking down pretty regularly, and several went off the end (not sure how that happens on a NHRA track). Even with the good DA, Ennis (Texas Motorplex) is not the fastest place to run just due to track prep, elevation, or whatever. This is easily the best DA I’ve run in there. We get maybe two or three open track dates a year with weather like this. So, overall, no complaints…

We didn’t get to run against each other since it was packed, but we ran a few runs in close proximity. I think Tom was running a pretty similar setup to what he ran on the dyno, and on his 11.4 pass. I was running the APR 100 octane map with a mix of a few gallons of 93 with a splash of E85, and I added 5 gallons of 104 at the track. I ran an 11.87@117.58 and 11.91@117.81. Tom ran an 11.63@117.74.


http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss146/jran76/EDF54113-60B0-4CE5-9AA0-83BBEF6288B9_zpsii1qkeqb.jpg


http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss146/jran76/91BC521E-953C-45B4-9962-AD8405713626_zpsp0b1qtwb.jpg

Sorry, bad camera placement in the video…
https://youtu.be/t0F99FpvVHo

#20

Nice- you held your own against that GTR, he was probably looking over a little surprised I’m sure :slight_smile: