Facts equal hate?

B6/7 S4/RS4
#40

Hey, that must be me, the new soft in the head pussy on that site. Nice to make your acquaintance, Saki. Better to pat the guy on the back for actually doing something with the RS4 than bash his work and look like a douchebag putting down what he’s done, no? And when his numbers are respectable, and in line with a properly installed/tuned MP112, you still look for anything to continue your bashing???..poor taste, brother.

Yes, Saki, I had a heat exchanger, too. https://www.magnacharger.com/p-40-corvette-z06-57l-ls6-2001-2004-magnuson-supercharger-kit.aspx
It was an MP112 running on a 5.7liter motor at 6700rpm…and I pulley’d it to 9lbs of boost.

And it heatsoaked just like most air/water heat exchangers do on the roadcourse. The methanol solved everything…it works better than any other form of intercooling available.
There’s a reason why many forced induction cars are switching over to E85, too. The RS4 application is not some voodoo motor, put in boost and fuel and cool it properly (there’s the key here, brother) and it will make repeatable power. Some are beating on the thread based on their past failed experiences, I’ll bet most of that is from improper tuning or set-up. I’ve run two blown cars with meth injection on the track and have had nothing but phenomenal results with heat-soak management. Twenty minute HPDE sessions, and the resultant heat-soak issues, are a little different than a 11-12 second run on a strip, no?

But enought about me, the random new soft in the head pussy writing about some random V8 car - I’m sure everyone would like to hear specifics about YOUR direct RS4 MP112 history. Please tell us YOUR direct experience with blown cars and methanol/water injection, and while we’re at it please tell us YOUR experience actually running a car with a MP112 blower, on track or strip? I’m sure everyone would love to curl up with the bag of popcorn and be enlightened with YOUR past/current experiences with ANY car that was blown and meth’d, be it the voodoo RS4 or other. Please???

:wink:

#41

so when you get right down to it, not sure if it was actually you that chose the blower or did ANY of the work on the car (kudos if you did) but if you knew anything about compressor selection, you would know the differences between a 6700 rpm 2 valve head motor and an 8200 rpm 4 valve head motor are pretty big. YOUR experience on ONE LS car is counter to MANY experience on MANY RS4s. nothing different has been done on the build in question than any of the other attempts/fails at this. The blower is too small and inefficient to make power high up on a very efficient high revving motor ala the RS4. sure the sheet looks pretty but i can ice down and throw hurricane force winds at any setup and make it look better than it is. im the end it will perform like…say a 430hp poorly supercharged motor not being able to beat a 330hp non supercharged motor… OH OR EVEN BETTER!!! It will perform similar to a current production supercharger kit that utilizes a more efficicient blower yet still struggles to beat tune and exhaust cars… and Im sure Count Vohn didnt tune the MP112 so its not going to fare quite as well…

#42

why dont you tell us your experience with the m112? Or better yet why dont you provide some facts and stats proving the m112 has lived up to what it produces on the dyno? Or how about some stats that it produces decent power at all on the road? I will cite the classic example: the JHM s4 NA car making 334? awhp vs the VF m90 that supposedly made 403awhp on the dyno. Guess which one came out on top?

Once you do the research you will see why people bash it. Its a complete failure. Period. Its just sad to see folks get suckered into these failboats time after time all the while the facts are loaded on the internet. People like you are why these idiots get coerced into scams. No sugarcoating it over here with results and facts and thats what I like about this forum. Its reality. The m112 is a failure, no need to make excuses for the guy he already wants to get rid of it

#43

As its been put so many times. FACTS guys.

ace996 is posting what he would like to think is facts and… fact is he is wrong.

A solid A/W intercooler can and will take temps down past ambient. So false on him for that bad fact.
Methonal isn’t better then a proper intercooler. What ace seems to not know is that a intercooler removes heat. Methanol helps dissipate heat and yet it still brings heat with it into the cylinders. ITS THE TEMP of the Methonal and its ability to have a lower preignition value that make it masking for heat loss.

Putting a M112 on is going to cause the same issues as the M90. people seem to just not get it.

After a set point. Lets call it 6lbs of boost. Every lb of boost increases the amount of heat. So a M112 and a M90 when you add boost past 6lbs your creating heat. Then there is the heat from the heads into the units. None of this is being addressed.

#44

Right, good eye! Correct saki. The physics of it is:

  1. The energy required to move the rollers can be adjusted - tech imputs 4250 lb vehicle weight

  2. Dyno thinks it has a 4250lb vehicle and “wow this 3850lb vehicle sure can accelerate this rollers fast”

  3. Torque numbers burst the charts just like his results

Also the artificial cooling like many have already stated, produce falsified results.

Ace you’re going to get raped here. It would be in your best interest to back down now, unless you enjoy that sort of thing ;D

#45

Question. If chemical cooling is so much better, why use a IC unit? I would say because its just not that easy.

I fully agree. We had my skyline way too under weight and the results were much different then when we put in the proper weight. I think I gained almost 40hp if not more.

#46

Lol at ace

He fails to understand that my car and experience have nothing to do with anything I mentioned to him.

If a guy wants to m112 his RS4 I say go get em. I have no problem, and welcome it AS an RS4 owner because it’s a not terrible blower and the car should show a meaningful gain. Ace would have you believe I am hating on this Mmmrs4 for trying something. I am not. I am hating on him for LYING and saying he can get 650 whp from the PES m112 kit. Or 600. Or 550 frankly. I want it to be well known that this is a ludicrous claim.

You? You kiss his ass and call everyone a hater. Way to go.

As for your car, sounds like me being right about you had hit a sift spot. You did not have an m112 on a PES kitted RS4. So when you compare your lsx experience and criticize Chrisk and his comments about THE PES MMMRS4 setup and meth not goint to be able to sve the kid’s problems, and you get called out on it you blow up and suddenly ask me about my m112 experience. I have none thankfully…and that is irrelevant. Attacking me for calling you out for being dead fucking wrong and for contributing to the steady flow of misinformation on Audi zoo…well that is understandable. You are, like Mmmrs4, fragile, and used to people kissing your ass and patting you on the back for being dyno speed champion. That won’t happen here if you’re wrong. Sorry.

It’s a Bitch when you lose sight of what you are actually talking about and react emotionally.

#47

Techno-speak/paper on W/I located here: http://www.rx7club.com/auxiliary-injection-173/turbochargers-knock-858576/

It is a famous paper on W/I, this is posted on several forums, too.

Be good,
TomK

#48

Be good!!!

#49

bring one case of a m112 or m90 supercharged rs4 or s4 that performed well… please do so since you have yet to cite ONE specific accomplishment thus far. There have been plenty meth and intercooled applications yet none of them perform. You are comparing apples to oranges when you think your old m112 on a different car has the same applications to this platform. You have zero experience with the m112 on an rs4 so who are you kidding?

You can call people out all you want for hating, its just a sad sight to see when someone has so much information available through the internet where there is proof it does not perform to fit it on their car and make ridiculous claims. That is what this thread was based on. right here: “its an mp 112 capable of 600whp lots of drag race mustang guys use them” Guessed you missed that quote on the thread at the zoo huh? Its post #14 for reference…

Do I need to experience a gun shot to the torso to tell you it sucks? No. There is plenty of information out there to prove us correct about the performance of the eat roots blowers on these cars. The m112/m90 fails are the inconvenient truth…something you happen to have a problem with and cant accept

Until you post facts citing the magnificent accomplishments of the m112 on this platform your points will be invalid. We are all waiting for them…

#50

Who is this guy?

Saki may stir up shit, but he also outs the bullshitters and has contributed a wealth of information to the S4 and RS4 community. In the end this guy made dyno numbers…which also may have been tampered with. He put out no “real” performance data as far as 1/4 mile times and then he dropped the supercharger in question in order to try something new.

I think if you don’t like the “bashing” (which I call “revealing the FACTS”) over here, you need to go somewhere else…then you can smack whoever you want on the butt… but make sure you say “good game” otherwise it’s gay.

#51

Be good.

#52

guys to help anyone out. Ace is fucking clueless and has no concept of what he is talking about.

Not only can he not answer on a forum properly he seems to be just making things up as he so wishes. There are reasons why some people fail and some people don’t.

If your looking for facts look at what I wrote and just ignore what he has. As its a waste of time.

#53
#54

Yes, here’s your post…brilliance!!!..

Be good.

#55

Ace facts are truths not stuff you make up that you want to be true… lets get that stright… Second you got schooled by flowtech and well basically everyone else on this board. Still for a second. history will own you. As your concpet was just shown fauls by the guy that is getting away from the PES kit. He had methonal and it still didn’t work.

You have no proof of what you just mentiojned. I have countless amounts of proof that in this audi app with the M112 or M90 you can’t just add methonal and have it work.

and take time to read dumshit.

From the bell core water cooled intercooler website FAQ
[b]Water to air means extreme drag racing advantage.

You can add ice to your reservoir, if so equipped, which will drop your intake temperature BELOW ambient. Of course, the ice melts, which is why this is so good for drag racing. [/b]

that quote is on teh front page and maybe its just you that didn’t know that. Seems several others already knew that. Try educating yourself first…

#56

http://i.imgur.com/aVZgT.gif

#57

so when you get right down to it, not sure if it was actually you that chose the blower or did ANY of the work on the car (kudos if you did) but if you knew anything about compressor selection, you would know the differences between a 6700 rpm 2 valve head motor and an 8200 rpm 4 valve head motor are pretty big.- the Vette was mine, the RS4 in which everyone is bashing is not. I did not work on said car, do not know the owner…just could not sit by and say nothing to douchebags slamming him for experiences from past people. I do understand that “the MP112 is not even optimal for an LS6, it falls off up top…it’s a blower that has it’s main focus at the lower. When speaking of a car that revs to 8200rpms, sure, it’s going to fall off but not completely out of the bed. Based on the OP’s (on the other forum, this OP just started a bash-fest here) performance, I think he did One cannot expect the blower to haul all the way to redline…if that is needed, a centri or turbo would be needed.”
Wrong. just needs homework done on the power desired and flow rate required. plot that shit on a compressor map. SImple as that. Garrett even has a nifty application for the mathematically impaired.
“But based on MY past experience with an MP112 on a V8 (yes, a different V8 but still one that was 1.5liters larger) it does make a beautiful street/track car. I spend very little time in the top 15% of the rev range on my vehicles and would prefer a meaty low/mid range for scooting out of corners than a motor that just hauls in the top 30% of the powerband.”
right, so the blower wasn’t enouhg for the rev band on a lower revving motor… why slap that blower on an 8k rpm capabl ecar when you’re limiting it to 5k rpm. again the increased volumetric efficiency of the rs4 not to mention subsequent heat issues is what kills this blower.

Look guy, we’ve seen the dog and pony show before, dynos magnificently yet doesn’t perform as advertised. no one here buys a car to drive on the dyno. if the numbers were backed up, there would be a slightly better attitude… this kind of thing has been the bane of the 4.2 development and quite honestly has turned into a “fool me twice shame on me, try and fool me again and ill shit in your hat.” The car owner hasn’t accomplished shit other than buying a pretty picture then broadly pronouncing his naivete. Before he, you, or anyone else can argue they need to know at least an inkling about what the hell they’re talking about.

#58

Hoping this post will help a little. If your example isn’t an Audi you might as well throw your results out the window. As a tech for SVT Ive learned that there are many a new variable when trying to simplify the results from a large displacement low RPM motor to the small displacement high rpm motors. The euro motors actually run about 50 to 60+ deg hotter then most domestics. That is a large impact to start from.

People use Air to water intercooling systems for there ability to drop charge temps below ambient. That is kinda the concept of them. That you can pull out more heat due to the large temperature variance.

Using ice in a recirculation storage system can bring the temps down well below even 40deg. Dry ice can bring temps down to even -0

This needs to be used in conjunction with a proper exchange unit and size.

Also Chemical cooling helps but I would be careful at saying its better. There are many variables to both. Still remember the methanol absorbs the heat but its not dissipated till its removed from the system. A large part of that system is closed and will carry the heat with it. Law one of terminal dynamics.

The point.

Is, just like a intercooler needs to have enough surface area and temp charge to cool the charge. You also need to have an abundance of methanol to exceed the transfer of heat needed to be impacted by the addition of the fluid to the charge heat raito… Sorry for the hard read on the last part.

Bottom line. They both work. But what is more efficient. That is difficult to say. In this case you would need so much methanol to cool the intake temps that you would just be better off taking out the injectors and just spraying straight methanol across the air charge. and using that much methanol you might as well just use it as fuel.

#59

Ok lets not get overzealous now. He produced 425awhp…20 awhp more than the s4 with the m90 and somehow that is proof it performs (add in the dyno manipulation via weight)? Now claims 528 without posting a picture…sound fishy? What smells even fishier is that he wont run at the track!! Whys that? because he is 1- lying about the dyno figures or 2- knows it wont perform. Shall we use the s4 with the m90 as an example of what it does at the track? I can show you a great dyno with a terrible track record (ngng m90 fail) vs a mediocre dyno with a great track record (JHM NA s4)

You claim it to be the best blower on the planet for this application, if so then why are there plenty NA cars running faster? Again you fail to cite any information about its application on this platform to substantiate your claims. Look at the rs4 quartermile database, that is enough to substantiate mine.

For the record saki isnt the king of inconvenient truths for no reason, he is one of the few car guys on the forums with an open mind. is he “talking shit”? Thats your opinion, we have seen this crap many times, folks like you are nothing new. Its people with open minds about products that help save people from getting scammed. Call us shit talking haters all you want but in reality its just unbiased information that has been countlessly tested against your favor