Fleabay headers, Part Deux

B6/7 S4/RS4
#64

Heh, don’t be bitter because you’re predictable Sakimano. I even offered to buy you a beer to say thanks for making me money!

I don’t care what happened to the threads. I care that there aren’t any (consumable) to reference, regardless of why. I care that there are no facts. We all require facts and not ‘hearsay’ to make informed decisions everyday. This is no different.

I’ll ignore your venting in frustration, but I will let you know that it makes you sound a little childish-which is unfortunate for the official keeper of all 1/4 mile times.

As for all this “history” that everyone is talking about. You guys are the only ones with that history-new users know nothing about it and when they come for the facts from the community and instead of getting those facts, the community (you guys) shit all over them instead of pointing at the facts. I am trying to bring back the facts… So we have something to point at… But it seems that you are missing that point, you all seem to think that I am an xs customer that bought these headers thinking they are a suitable alternative to the tried and true Jhm headers… You are all wrong.

I’ve given neither money nor endorsement to either company or any xs product. I am infact interested in proving once and for all, with a fact filled thread, that they are not a valid option…

For as long as these parts have been out. I’m baffled as to why there isn’t a single thread about them, anywhere, that has more than speculation and hearsay.

They are a shit product-so why do people keep asking about them and not have endless threads that can be pointed at.

There are none-good or bad (backed with facts) - that have facts.

#65

I found threads that XS didn’t have deleted, with firsthand customer accounts of various issues (horrible fitment, bad welds, rapidly degrading metal, etc).

We aren’t the illuminati, there’s plenty of people on AZ and other forums who are aware of the threads that XS has deleted. Some of those people have never been on this forum. But regardless of that there are still current threads which are easily found on google. There is even a thread on here that references them.

They are a valid option. They are pieces of metal that will improve the performance of your car with a tune. They are poorly made pieces of metal that are direct knock-offs of another company, which is why noone here has much interest. There are companies that steal other companies tunes and sell them. Those tunes will improve the performance of the car, which you could measure on a dyno and 1/4 mile test. Again, noone here would have any interest in those.

People keep asking because they are a less expensive than everything else, and those people don’t understand the “buy nice or buy twice” concept.

Where are you located? I would be interested in taking the beer, since Saki doesn’t seem interested.

#66

Can we lock this thread now please? Nothing new has happened in half the posts. By relationship standards, that makes this break-up complete.

BUT - if icanfly wants to be one of the few who buy a product like this and actually have the fortitude and character to post up real results, then please start a new thread with results. My offer will still hold true at that point to help defray some of your costs for dyno/track time.

#67

This is like a drinking game. For those of you at home. It’s more lolz

Let me help give you the answer for the 15th time.

There are threads. There are still threads. But there are threads that were deleted by the company to try and cover up the bad results. Maybe you don’t understand what that means.

Hear say is I hear something then say it. I see say… I see and saw (so did several others) the threads that had several bad reviews. I’m telling you about it. Just like you read the paper for current and past events. People read the forums. It’s not hear say it’s saw witnessed and experienced first hand say.

#68

As a side note, I’d like to remind you all that I posted here because squiddy was trying to see these first hand. I have them, in my garage - it cost me virtually nothing to get them. So primarily my inquiry was to squiddy and those curious about this topic and seeking a real-time review. But I’m glad that the 5 or so voices of the community thought they needed to come and dance all over the thread with the “we’re the smartest guys in the room” attitude instead of saying anything resembling “yeah, shit, get us pictures, whip out that micrometer - I wanna see how bad they actually are, let’s make a thread that shuts down that company. a thread that they don’t own”…

It’s unfortunate that you guys get so caught up in talking to yourselves about how experienced and knowledgeable you are. Because you forget that you are the shepherds of the community and if the body of the community doesn’t listen or care, perhaps the shepherds have something to think about with regards to how they are interact with that community. About what it takes to be at the lead of a group of people impacted so dramatically by shared knowledge… I want nothing more than for all your history, experience and value add that you bring to this community, to actually make it to this community.

In fact, I’d like nothing more than to directly contribute to that knowledge base…It’s unfortunate that you are willing to sacrifice contribution in the name of ego - I’m glad that the skydiving community doesn’t work this way, entirely, or I wouldn’t be able to fly my wingsuit…and I fucking love my wingsuit.

so, SquiddyB6S4 - I have these parts, if you’d like to know anything about them, pre-install, pm and let me know - I’ll send along whatever you need to evaluate the product.

#69

No way. Threads don’t get locked on AR. That’s partly why we’re better than any other Audi forum.

#70

And this folks is the ideal XS customer. Not good at detective work but sure can talk circles. Icanfly is more interested in his ego then the CONTINUED LONG list of available data on google and the first hand experience of others. Don’t be fooled icanfly was always going to install these. I don’t now after reading the lack of comprehend understanding believe that he didn’t pay for these. Each post his credibility got less and less.

Anyone that is worried about the performance aspects of a part made by a company that has been so dishonest and has such a bad track record clearly isn’t getting why nobody cares what these parts do. It’s a company nobody cares about.

#71

Icanfly is just like the guys (usually engineers) who buy the pes m90 supercharger kits and think they’re going to make them work. They think they’re smarter than everyone and that there’s something they’re going to be able to do to turn a piece of shit into something special. And cheap. Only to sell the kit and car and disappear within months.

The good news is that Icanfly showed his cards quickly enough that he will drift back to audizine where dyno worship and Chinese knockoffs are King. Not even sure why he signed up here or posted in this thread to begin with. Strike that, I do know why. He was looking for an argument. He wanted to prove everyone wrong and show what a genius he was to buy the shitbox headers and produce the results nobody else has.

Problem is he’s too dumb to understand that the threads for the people who came before him were moved to the moderator section on audizine long ago, and he won’t see them, nor will anyone else.

In fact I should also strike that… It’s great that he doesn’t see the threads because it makes him think they don’t exist and will lull him into a sense of security as he installs this junk on his s4. This will certainly lead to lulz when his car doesn’t run well, and he has to again pull the motor to remove the rusted cracking underperforming lumps .

When he does that let’s bump this thread.

#72

The prediction and the bet…
“Sakimano will post in this thread one more time, and he will use the word dumb. Directly at me. Bet you another $50”.

heh. It’s too easy with you man, what’s your paypal, I’ll buy you a half rack. You couldn’t be further from the facts - for the record, I am the absolute opposite of an engineer.

but who cares.
threads dead man. threads dead.

updates will come when the new clutch breaks in.
thanks everyone!

#73

Lol why are you so obsessed with this bet and buying stuff for sakimano?

Strange thread is strange.

#74

Man, im gone a few days and look what i miss lol. OP Threads exist, and many were deleted. just search. Your on some holier than thou crusade and it seems your purposely just trying to spew shit and piss people off over here.

Have fun with your POS headers and let us know how they dont perform. Make sure you post the info over here as Audizine has become the biggest joke of a site only caring about the vendors and giving them free will to do what they want. That way when then the next icanfly shows up asking for proof, it wont be deleted.

And your arguement about only having dyno results was not a good one, but i will say you gave some hope when you said you would do some 1/4 mile runs. You dont have to break records or be a “drag racer”. Just make a few passes and give us your slips with vids.

Each side here is missing the point. Icanfly says he wants to put these on just to show people they suck. I dont know if i firmly believe that or not. I think he is more hoping they work so he didnt put a colossal POS on his car. Most know how that will end up.

Icanfly is missing the point that no one here really gives a shit whether XS headers work or not (most here already know that answer too). Even if they were great, this community here would rather support a company that STILL develops new products where almost EVERYONE else left. We would rather pay a premium for a company that develops top of the line parts and still cares for the platform. Not a bunch of assholes who try to copy off someone elses success and profit. Plain and simple. JHM will continue to get our dollar because of this.

#75

Fucking great post Eddie.

Your touched on my two big points. Who cares if the XS headers work or not. The company shouldn’t get any of our attention. They have been so Shadyside in the past. XS tried to give headers for people on the foundation of payment would be a glowing review. Do I think icanfly falls into this. Not to sure. The reason I say that is the proof he keeps saying he can’t find it appears everyone else can. So if he was so concerned he could start a thread here with all the links and data to show people. Save himself about 20+ hours of work to pull his motor again. Usually things don’t add up when they are not true and icanfly story’s keep not adding up. So I’m not to sure if I should care or applaud. Since almost all of us actually read two separate threads where the results were already posted and buried due to XS headers being a bad part. I guess we will find out more about icanfly depending on his thoughts. He already said they were made well so that’s off to a bad start. If you don’t know what a good part has its kinda hard to tell what a bad part is

#76

No I think you misunderstood. He is going to put them on his car because he wants to run them. Not because he wants to prove they’re garbage. He wants them to be good and he wants them on his car.

If he was truly impartial, or if he truly felt they were garbage, he would not say things like

Further, 10 people with extensive experience on mulitple Audi forums then told him this.

(paraphrased) ‘Actually this testing has already been done. Various owners found they either didn’t fit, or were poorly made, or rusted after a short while and had to be removed. People have also done dyno testing and found that they didn’t make any more power than a simple set of downpipes, and in some versions of these china headers, they actually HURT the car’s ability to make power. Many of these threads detailing this have been deleted by forum owners as a courtesy to the selling company who are paying advertisers on those forums’

When presented with that, did he say ‘Oh I missed that, thanks’.

Nope.

He rebelled, basically called everyone liars, questioned everyone’s motivation for sharing this information, and then demanded to see these threads (even though he was told multiple times they have mostly been deleted.

Why? Why would he rebel, defend the headers, and question a number of people with far greater experience than he has if he agrees with them?

#77

Bottom’s up!

Yeah, I’d love to see photos inside - inside the runners from the head flange, and inside the back end looking up into the collector. The best photos possible. If you happen to have access to an inspection camera / borescope, that would be sweet. I am endlessly curious, you know.

I respect that a lot. Although, referring back to my first quote above from Justin :slight_smile:

Hey, I resemble that remark! There’s nothing wrong with engineers. It’s just like any other profession; 90% of those in the profession don’t have the drive, interest, or aptitude to excel at it. Or maybe it’s just that 90% of us buy supercharger kits with little blowers, crazy shaft speeds, and leaky intercoolers. One of those.

For the record - no PES kit here, though I do wish a well made kit would pop up using a Whipple AX140.

#78

Engineers are great. However, for some reason, the guys who pull the ‘I am going to figure it out!’ and then fight the entire forum (who are trying to help and protect them and save them time/money) are usually engineers.

It’s a venn diagram with two circles, one being engineers, one being M90 supercharger purchasers, and the intersection being the guys who buy the M90 kits used for $1300 dollars and think they’re going to reinvent the wheel and somehow undo shit tune and undo the compressor map that makes the M90 a shit choice. They’re usually bad engineers (since they can’t read a compressor map lol)

#79

There’s also the shit engineers, like our buddy Arthur from the ea days

#80

good summary of why buying headers that ‘look nice’ is fucking retarded. This was written by the guy who developed the JHM headers for the B67 S4.

[quote]Now look at the B6/7 S4. When you look and know the manifold design you can already tell that the manifold isn’t too bad. It’s build with a nice collector and the total design is great for top end RPM. Since the B6/7 S4 already runs close to the upper 90% in motor VE. besting that would be no small feet. The first set of JHM headers was built trying to keep in the idea of production. The first test results of those headers actually showed the car lost hp. Yes, they lost hp. If you go do your homework you will see that expanding the primary exhaust tubes will help make tq down-low but at the cost of hp up top. So, another set needed to be made. The second set of JHM test headers was now an closer to equal length than the first set. Making the tubes closer to true equal length created more Tq down low but still left a big hp loss up top. So, now on to the third set of JHM test headers. The third set of headers now took into consideration the need for a merge collector rather than just dumping the pipes into the same collection spot. Looking at the OEM manifolds you will see that there is a stagger of exhaust collection leading into the collector. Taking this into account and looking deeper into collector angles the third set of JHM headers was just starting to come close to besting the OEM manifolds. The fourth test set of headers made the primary pipes the length they needed to be. Further testing the collector design helped gain that much-needed RPM range that was missed. On to the fifth set of JHM test headers, the collectors were further lengthened and now the approach angles and merge area was changed to help bring in power along the entire rev range. We found that cylinder placement of the tubes in the collector helped wake the upper range up. We found out that you need a few of the pipes to be just sized right to hit the window you need to get the pulse collection right. Not happy with that the sixth version tried to enhance some of the changes for more hp. After the dust settled the fifth set was the magic number. The formula was just right to help the motor get what it needed where it needed it. The only issue was, building them took specific requirements to get the power out of them. Mainstream production wasn’t going to be possible. The time needed to get all the bends right, to get the length perfect, to get the collector built right. It all had to be built by hand. It all took time and precision.

Now to current day. It’s so sad to see people getting scammed. Sure, a few years back some talentless hack tried to rip off the JHM headers sending them to China. As you would imagine anything that’s made in China, is notorious for lack of quality and construction. Well, as you can imagine most people were educated enough to know its China junk and it’s a sad attempt to knock off the JHM headers that have worked so well. Right away, you could tell the China headers were junk. So, nobody bought them. After years of selling zero china headers the sorry suckers who tried to knock off the JHM headers had to start giving them away. First the price for the China headers was $1400 and it was an attempt to scam and take advantage of the uneducated. Nobody fell for it so the price dropped to under $400 shipped. At that price point, you got a few people who thought “Why not try them for that cheap.” As expected, the China headers not only didn’t fit but, they would break if you did modify them to fit. The welds would crack and the materials used were so cheap that they didn’t hold in any heat and would start to rust after not too long. That wasn’t even the bad part. They weren’t even close to the JHM headers in terms of the needed components to make the headers outperform the stock manifolds and catless Dps. A few people tested them and found that they actually LOST POWER. Quietly trying to get rid of the headers these people took the junk china headers off and sold them as quickly as possible. The China headers are one more example of someone trying to catch a sucker or an uneducated individual. Most guys don’t know any better. They see a bunch of pipes and think oh, well that kinda looks close to the same thing. Well, it’s not. The JHM headers don’t have all that detail to them just for fun. The bends and merge collecting sections alone add 20 hours to the project. It would be much quicker to build the headers without doing all that. But, if you want the headers to outperform the stock manifolds you need to do more then just have some longer primary tubes that end up a few feet back. Anyone that says or even bought this china junk is what’s wrong with the community. When you see people like that just know they spend money to buy junk parts that actually make sell hp than their stock manifolds and a set of catless downpipes.
[/quote]

#81

Let’s set a few things straight.

  1. I happened into these parts as part of a bulk purchase of parts in a ‘garage cleanout’ wherein I bought a few parts for a friends S4 because I had the cash and he didn’t. I spent good cash on good used JHM parts, the guy then threw these in to get them out of his garage. I like having extra shit around for projects and figured -
    ‘whatever, just bring me all the parts you’ve got and I’ll hand you a wad of cash - enjoy your new platform and when you want to rip around in an S again, give me a call’. He showed up, unloaded the parts, and here we are. XS headers in my garage.

  2. I didn’t know anything about these headers when they landed in my garage, so I did the standard searches - Audizine, Audirevo, Quattroworld /r/audi… etc. And in the results I found a ton of dead ends and speculation and no fact, no evidence of their being good or bad, and that was interesting, because there is such a strong feeling about them in the community. And while this group of know-it-alls has all the historical evidence buried somewhere, in their backyards that no one else can reference… I, as a curious party, wasn’t able to find anything other than “Fuck them, they stole the design from JHM” to which I said “woah - fuck, these guys totally stole this shit” and then I kept seeing posts like “found these on ebay, anyone know anything about them?” which resulted in several demeaning insults and shitty posts about what an idiot the OP was for asking a question, instead of anyone saying anything like “we tested em’, they are shit, check out the thread [link]”. So I considered posting some info about these since I’ve not seen pictures other than XS’s pictures and I haven’t found a thread where I can see someone trying to install them and failing due to fitment issues - I see alot of “he said she said” but no “OP Bought parts and tried to use them, but it failed here are the pictures that show the fitment issues”… (this is usually the time when sakimano jumps in and says " we told you they all got deleted", to which I respond with “huh, I have them, who wants to know more about them, let’s make a thread that doesn’t get deleted”…

  3. at no time, throughout this entire dialog, have I EVER said a single positive thing about the parts themselves or the company that produced them. NOT ONCE. So Sakimanos repeated engagement and ‘popping off like an angry child’ seems to be either a. because he has nothing better to do than throw poop at strangers - as he does in most of his posts that don’t result in “thank you saki-god”, or b. because he is angry that I made $100.00 off of him, because I bet a friend that was watching this entire thing, that Sakimano would show up, ignore the very foundation of the original post start talking shit about me, the headers and the company instead of simply making a statement and moving along or contributing anything of value to this thread that he hasn’t already posted everywhere else, because his entire MO is that predictable. I bet not only once, but twice with my friend that sakimano would default into his usual childish behavior and call me dumb… it’s so sad that I made that money - I went on to offer to by him a beer for making me $100.00 for being a predictable man-child with his posts. if the shoe fits, eh?

  4. I offered a critical review, to do it openly and transparently - because my motor is already coming out for a service and it was convenient to do so. To be clear, I love my current setup and have no interest in installing headers on my car. If I wanted them, I’d buy JHM headers, the R&D that went into both the long tubes and mid-length is astounding! just like all my other parts on the car (and I have most of their catalog installed) - I don’t need them, nor do I want them. My car is fast, loud and I love it. I just thought it would be interesting to try to install them and see how bad they really are - and to document the process. I have two motor pulls planned in the next 6 months with two dyno sessions on either side of the pulls, so if I could actually get them installed, it would be interesting to post some facts - that can’t be covered up by anyone - because I am not affiliated with anyone.

that’s it.

nothing more, nothing less.

You can all spin it however you need to so that you can continue talking to each other about how smart and knowledgable you all are - or you can accept that I was genuinly trying to offer some facts for the new kids looking at these parts - since there are none that can be pointed at - today. And by facts, I mean users who buy a product and post a review (THEY’VE ALL BEEN DELETED!!!) Yeah, I get it… which only furthers my interest in doing this “for science / funsies”… not one person has posted one link to one thread that has factual information from an original purchaser of this product… simply. 3 pages of bullshit - everyone parroting each other “WE KNOW WE KNOW WE KNOW” … yeah, I get it, you guys are the smartest guys in the room. but if you all go back and read my original post - it says: “I have these parts - anyone care for a review”…

you all could have responded with “Nope, their shit and we know it for a fact - we have no interest, move along” but instead everyone came in and circle jerked with each other in the most pedantic, self-stroking way that I’ve ever seen in a community. which sucks because you guys have vast legacy knowledge that you can offer - you just get so caught up putting your dicks on the table that no one who’s not been in the scene for 10 years, will ever listen to because of the way you talk to people…

I don’t give a shit what Sakimano and the like think about me - my intentions or what my plans are for my car. I don’t need the validation of the community to feel good about myself. I love my car - I love the performance it gives me and I love continuing to tinker and find the best balance or performance and comfort out of my car and headers are not on that list - im not supercharging nor racing my car and as such - I don’t need or want them.

the fact that you guys are still posting on this thread at all is only a magnifier of your continued need to pat each other on the back and say “yeah bro, we totally showed that fucking newb”… well fella’s all you’ve done is dance around with each other and that’s it. congrats. now you can go home and continue to relish in the pride of your ‘telling me so’…

not that I asked for your opinion about the parts or the company or any of that shit. I asked if you wanted a review of the parts.

but this thread, is why so many folks I know that have awesome cars, have nothing to do with this community. Because of the way they are treated by the elders… you guys… which is like shit most of the time.

I’ve been an audi-dubber for the better part of 20 years and I’ve never been treated the way you guys reacted to my simple post about a parts review.

way to represent the scene fellas.

#82

So since you’re still freaking out and want all of this factual evidence why they are shit…then try them.

Just do me a favor and step back to look at the things we know.

  • there were other guys way before you who wanted to try these…they argued just like you and we said “go ahead” Where are they now? Who knows…but I haven’t seen on video or post about how great these headers are, have you?
  • XSpowwa advertises that these fit all of most 4.2 chassis, which anyone with half a brain knows is impossible.

If you don’t want opinions then don’t post on car forums, especially one like AR. You’re really just being a fucking crybaby about all of this whole situation. You are also full of shit when you say things like “I don’t even want headers” that is like turning down a blowjob. You’ve also expressed how important having great suspension is to you for going around turns/canyons…but you don’t want to accelerate faster? Make up your mind dude.

NONE of us here have racecars…none of us RACE our cars every weekend. Most enthusiasts modify their cars for performace and I’m not sure why headers or a supercharger in your mind equals racecar.

If you want everything you say or think to be “right” or uncontested, choose to post where weak minded and uneducated…they will love every bit of your experiment.

#83

Icanfly please read my post once or twice. Have an open mind and please feel free to help bridge the gap.

You asked and the answers were

you all could have responded with “Nope, their shit and we know it for a fact - we have no interest, move along”

We all saw the facts. We all saw the results. We all saw the people get fucked over. We all have tried to show you that not us but XS paid to cover up what your asking for. Most of us said. Any company that does that should be black balled. We all have decided that even if XS was to actually make a good product no body should be part of anything more that telling the past story and making a statement against these kinds of companies.

So again you asked. Does anyone want you to test these.
“Nope, their shit and we know it for a fact - we have no interest, move along”

You keep saying you don’t see it. That’s fine you didn’t see 99.9% of the history of the world or the events around you. That’s why there’s something called the news. You didn’t see water gate or the fast and furious government cover up. It was covered up. But there are people that did and even tho things were cover up they kept saying here is what you can’t see.

The true different here is. We are telling you about the cover up and the issues. The majority of the community (that with your current state of mind are not included in) have rejected XS and moved on. XS has a shit reputation. XS is a dishonest company. You don’t need to do more then google to figure that out. The XS debate is over. They lost there chance the nail is in the coffin. But you potentially try to say you want to help. You want to open the coffin to try and put another nail in the coffin. You think we don’t want you to test because were elites or something. .NO man your fucking missing it. Were not eliteites we saw amd read the threads were people got super fucked over. You can say you don’t have proof of anything. Well guess what. We or atleast I did. I remember sending dozens of emails and helping for weeks to try and help some of these guys that got fucked over. One in particular. A guy got suckered into the XS headers. Hacked up his car to have them fit only to have the shitty quality XS header fail on him. He had to pull his motor (now by himself because he was broke from paying labor the first time) he tried to do this on his own. It was a huge mess. I actually drove with a few friends to help him out. Because this shit XS product failed he lost money missing work and all the issues n his wife gave him. He commented a few times saying how the XS headers failed on him. Not to long after out of need and frustration he sold the car.

I get it you didn’t see that. Well I and a few others did. And when he and others went to warn others about how bad the XS headers were. The threads got paid to be closed by XS. So do I want to see you even try to put these on your car or do I want to even see , more testing
“Nope, their shit and we know it for a fact - we have no interest, move along”

I and I think others don’t want to have you open the coffin to try and help close the coffin again. XS is fucking shady. They are on there 6th or 7th attempt to compermise these things to get them to fit. Maybe they will fit on your car. I personally know XS has tried to send special sets of these out to people to try and get a paid review. Who knows what set you have.

So again do we care or want you to test
“Nope, their shit and we know it for a fact - we have no interest, move along”

What would I ask for. Stand with the rest of us. Don’t let the posts even if you didn’t read them die. People are passing on history that’s how it works. Seriously drop the hearsay. News isn’t hear say. Your history book isn’t hearsay. You have several unassocsted people all telling you the exact same thimg. Take a stand and say. Even if these fit XS doesn’t fit in to any company you would want to support. You do have an opportunity to share with the community and the new owners. How powerful would your message be if it was… oh XS headers. .ya I got a set for free and I threw them in the garbage because that’s all there worth.

If you truly believe XS isn’t a part you wouldn’t put in your car don’t put it on your car. You can do more by not trying to show they suck then by trying to test and show they suck. If you out the part on your car good or bad XS won. Your the sucker that’s doing the testing they will never do. They are dishonest. Once you show they don’t work. XS will do what they did when the mustang guys showed the XS headers didn’t work. XS just came out with the EXACT SAME header and said it was a new design. The mustang guys started the debate all over again. They all now reject XS but it’s important to know. Your an honest guy trying to show how a dishonest company works. They won’t be as honest as you.

Seriously hope this bridges the gap. I really believe the community can be helped by your excitement to help. I would just say take your talents and look to the other spots new members need help.