Going full retard

General Discussion
#1

As Sakimano so aptly described another users project car, I have always planned to go ‘full retard’ on my 2002 S6. I purchased it for a few thousand, and have, so far, put about $13k CAD into it:

H&R coilovers installed ($2000)
Brembo/JHM brakes ($2000)
Timing belt and water pump ($1200)
Enkei NT03 and snow tires ($2500)
Magnaflow cats installed ($500)
Rear hatch cover ($300)
Transmission replacement ($2500)
Rear ECS rotors and pads ($500)
Complete front control arms ($1000)
Rear wiper motor ($500)

For a total of $13k CAD.

My future plans were:

Custom paint w/ RS6 bodykit $10k
Summer wheels $3k
Custom Supercharger $7k
Headers and Exhaust $5k
6speed swap with JHM rebuilt trans $6k
Engine rebuild $4k
Miscellaneous $1k

Total $36k

I was all gung-ho for this project for a long time. However, when I added up the numbers, I started to get second thoughts. I am sure if I did all the above mods, I would absolutely love the car. However, if I ever wanted to sell, I would be lucky to get $18k. Right now, I can probably get around $10k, plus $3k for the bodykit that I already have. So, I would essentially be out $30k the second I finished. If I ever got in an accident that totaled the car, then I could potentially lose $35k.

So, as much as I would love to follow through on this project, financially it doesnt seem to make sense. I havent ruled it out yet, but here are some of my other options if I sell the car for $10k

2014 Allroad with body painted fenders

http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb11016353/p4pb11016353.jpg

B8 Avant

http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb11016352/p4pb11016352.jpg

BMW 535 xdrive (rare to find in white with body kit)

http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb11016351/p4pb11016351.jpg

keep car and go Full Retard !!!

http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb11016354/p4pb11016354.jpg

In the end, Ill have to work this out on my own. I know on previous projects, and my recent home reno, it doesnt make sense to go half way. Either go Full Retard, or dont even start. I recently talked to a buddy of mine who went full retard on a 700hp B5 S4. He is about as skilled as they come when it comes to cars (he runs one of the most respected tuning shops in Toronto). I asked him if he regretted the project, and I guessed the number at $30k. First, he told me it was much more than $30k. And yeah, he said he would have been better investing in real estate. I said, but the car project was more fun… his response was that it was more of a pain in the ass, and never really ran properly.

I guess when you mod a car, you can’t expect it to be an investment. As soon as you buy the coilovers, consider the money gone. But when you are thinking about going full retard on a 12 year old car, you have to think if it makes financial sense.

Anyway, like I said, Ill figure it out on my own. But welcome to hear about any comments or experiences. Come on… I know I cant be the only retard out there

#2

Sweet PS skills…

I think you kind of answered it for yourself. As awesome as it would be, I dont think it makes financial sense unless you have money to blow or you’re going to make it into a show car and keep it forever. You will never get anything close to what you put into it and the car is going to keep getting older and the mileage is going to keep going up. ‘Custom’ stuff like the body kit and supercharger will hurt resale unless you find the right buyer, IMO. Cause if something were to go wrong it could possibly end up costing the new owner a lot of money (or you for that matter)

I am a huge fan of the new allroads, especially with the paint matched fenders. And unless that B8 is an S4 I would just toss that out. Personally I would go for the Allroad, but that’s just me.

#3

Is your friend Chris from twins?

His car never really did run right. Of course that just makes it a b5.

Dumping money into a car and changing it materially (body kit is a waste of money. You will never see it back. It’s dead to you.

You could always buy the c5 rs6 avant that’s for sale in the US if that’s what you really want. Paul Walker imported it I believe.

What are your goals? You’re all over the map. Na 4.2, 2.0t, 3.0tt…

#4

What’s the difference with an allroad and a b8 a4 avant? They’re both 2.0t.

You threw out the b8 a4 because it’s not an s4. Neither is the allroad. It’s twice the price of a b8 avant and still not an s4.

#5

There are some cars I can see going nuts on, but an old S6 is not one IMO. I would buy an RS6 any day of the week rather than drop a penny in a S6. But neither of those cars should really be considered a primary dd type car these days imo and the maintenance may kill ya on the RS if you’re not prepared.

Allroad is the best looking and most rare of the cars you listed, but as saki said, with a price to match. And the 535 is a great car with some great easy hp mods, but they’re both “normal” cars to me, I.e. Not something you’d keep for 10yrs. But that’s not a bad thing, it’s fun to change it up! Sounds like you need some more self discovery on what type car you want, how to use it, and how long you like to own something.

#6

Another option would be to find a b6 s4 avant for 13k with high miles (or even better, find one with timing chain issues), then send it to JHM for a stg2 build and other mods with a turnkey built motor and probably be done for 30-35k. That would prob be your most reliable and most return value in a “full retard build” bc it’s not a one off kit but a well known company & product.

Edit: the more I think about, this path by far seems to be the no-brainer path IF you’re wanting to go nuts on a car like your talking about. Plus you can find it already with a manual!

#7

Yeah, B8 A4 Avants are slow as shit compared to your B6 S4. ::slight_smile: The AR version with all it’s plastic crap is by the far the better option.

#8

My bad. For some reason I thought the new allroads had the 4.2

#9

I never said they were…no need to be an ass. I prefer the styling of the allroad over the a4.

#10

Thanks for all the feedback.

Yeah, it was Chris I was talking to.

I believe the RS6 Avant in the US was sold on ebay for north of $60k
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261480563855

You are right, I am all over the map. It was only recently that I wrote all the numbers down for the C5 S6 project, and realized that it might make more sense to abandon things before I got in too deep. I have owned four C5s over the last ten years, and I think I am growing bored of the look of the car, on top of everything else. Time for something new, just have to figure out what.

My budget is somewhere from about 20 to 30k, but over $20k and I would have to get financing. I was even looking at the C6 S6s, but am having a hard time finding one with a good service history at a reasonable price. I wouldnt normally go with a black on black car, but in the case of the C6 S6 I think it works well, with the plan to eventually black out all the trim and wheels on the car. I know the v10 engine is not a top performer in stock form, but it seems to have enough ‘get up and go’ to keep me satisfied (test drove one last week). What scares the hell out of me is the maintenance on the car with the v10. And, I can’t help but feel that the cars front end (especially the headlights) already looks dated.

I think I want at least a B8, if I go with an A4/Allroad. I am tired of having a car that looks dated, and would rather just start with the latest platform (which I think looks amazing). Also, if I go B8 I would probably go Avant, since it is available.

Seems there are mixed reactions about the new Allroad. I havent seen one in person with the painted body panels. From the pics, it looks like you get a kind of widebody B8 Avant, but maybe in person the fenders look tacked on. Not sure, Ill have to check one out at the dealer. The other advantage of the Allroad is that I could order it in an Audi Exclusive colour (I like Nardo grey). Of course, with Audi exclusive paint now we are up to close to $60k, and I would be keeping the car for at least eight years. Heres a few more pics of ones with a drop and wheels

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/530/fucmelife.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/hmsilset/Alroad%20red/075-2.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/14/puqe9udu.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h110/tchun003/photo1-1.jpg

#11

In terms of my engine preferences, I definitely like the large displacement NA engines from Audi. However, after the B7 S4, it doesnt seem like that is going to happen with any of the cars I am looking at (aside from the S6). Of the newer engines, the 3.0t seems like the one everyone is raving about. Ideally, I would have a B8 avant with the 3.0t in it, but they dont seem to come that way. Actually, I just missed out on one for $9k with a bad engine. Maybe that would have been a nice 3.0t swap candidate (here we go again with the project cars).

Heres a nice A6 blacked out (with lightweight wheels to boot!)

http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s518/the_transporter7/2E9D9B47-1FBB-4C61-94A9-15D49644A175-9684-000005DD92B38FE7_zps062b3417.jpg

http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s518/the_transporter7/530F9A2E-3F1F-4B69-B95B-35117468B9C9-9236-000005AFC4EACE65_zps1ae1ec4b.jpg

http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s518/the_transporter7/6E1734D3-C88C-4CB5-A3AC-9A5D5E4FBF26-9236-000005AFB22B6DA5_zpsee9e2223.jpg

http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s518/the_transporter7/D76663F9-C575-4DB7-BDFC-7D12BA5E457F-9684-000005DD86EC0EE4_zps0c6d7e8d.jpg

#12

And to make things even more confusing, Im adding another model to the list; the A7. The car I once hated because of the looks, actually seems to make a lot of sense (and the styling is growing on me). It comes with the 3.0t engine and some of the functionality of a Avant, with the hatchback rear. Pfaff has one in black on black for a reasonable price. I am guessing that they should hold their value decently too, since it is a relatively new model.

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Audi/A7/Newmarket/Ontario/5_19906990_ON20070704174645978/?ursrc=hl&showcpo=ShowCPO&orup=1_15_12

Here is an RS7 in Nardo grey (not that I could ever afford one)

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=350805&dateline=1395759576

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/jayslay/IMG_3265_zps240370a3.jpg

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=F3K79gnmjLIo0M&tbnid=tGkBcTkOKD6lKM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoevolution.com%2Fnews-g-image%2Fnardo-gray-audi-rs7-rides-on-adv1-wheels-photo-gallery%2F199088.html&ei=dXaLU-ymE8iSqgbFooCYAg&psig=AFQjCNGlABhqiV-C4YT_3JkUTrNqNPsjsw&ust=1401735094744880

http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/nardo-gray-audi-rs7-rides-on-adv1-wheels-photo-gallery_6.jpg

#13

Not sure what rs7 has to do with it but anyway why not get a tdi a7? Monster modification path. The tvs1320 a7 will struggle to get out of the mid 12s even with tune pulley and octane. So ultimate performance is tough with the little blower. The tdi is far more interesting to me. Massive upside and not only look that but it will murder the relatively terrible on gas 3.0t for efficiency

#14

Interesting…Ill look into the TDI.

#15

I’d say we can all agree modification of one’s car isn’t exactly a investment we’d expect a great financial return. For me the return has always been enjoyment. With that what do you need and want out of the car? You’ve done several project cars so far and this looks like you’re looking for another one.

The consistent advice I give is work with what you already have. Any and all of the other cars you listed will require you to put more money in after you bought them. I’ve never heard of a b5 project build that didn’t end up with the owner selling it a few months after finishing. My response would be don’t let that guide you. B5s seem to be expensive and unreliable no matter how much money you spend.

I’d decided what you need and want the car to be. Then take steps in that direction. If your current path requires you to not take a loan then for me I’d stick with what you already have and own.

#16

I’d consider giving your current ride the new fresh look

#17

Thanks for the advice. You are right, I would want to add coilovers and wheels (and possible engine mods) to whatever car I get. Im going to look at the numbers again and see what makes sense. It is easy to get a hard-on when you see the newer Audis, but Im going to have to keep reminding myself how nice it is to have a car that is completely paid off. What is making this decision so hard is that the C5 S6 IS such an amazing car. I took a C6 S6 for a test drive, and was expecting it to put my car to shame. But, that wasnt the case. Performance seemed on par with my car, although it may have needed a carbon cleaning. My car is still very strong even with 340k KM on the clock. Only mods I have done to the engine/exhaust is some high flow cats. Style wise, the C6 S6 looks kinda boring, especially when you compare it to the aggressive fronts of the newer Audis, and the lack of fender bulge of the old C5 4.2s. Well, I definitely have to think this through some more.

#18

I am considering it still. I think it would look amazing in Nardo grey.

#19

this is what the car currently looks like, btw (right now it is only about half retard)

http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb10193155/p4pb10193155.jpg

http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb10193156/p4pb10193156.jpg

http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p4pb10190804/p4pb10190804.jpg

#20

Any thoughts on doing an b7 or b8 front end