Going full retard

General Discussion
#53

Had to look that up, as I didnt know what it was.

Vortech V-3 Si Supercharger

Performance Specs

Max Speed:
52000 RPM
Max Boost:
22 PSI
Max Flow:
1150 CFM
Max Power:
775 HP
Peak Efficiency:
78%

Yes, that would be awesome. A supercharger was something I was wondering about. A couple questions…

  • The ZF 6HP26a is rated to 440lb/ft. I am assuming it can take more, but how much more? Guys are dynoing about 350awhp/350awtq with an exhaust and tune, so it is already close to the max at that level. With the supercharger, would you cap the tq at around 500, and see the bigger gains in HP?
  • Right now, the car is very jerky in first, stock without a carbon clean. It has a 3.80 final drive with a 4.17 first gear. If I added a supercharger, is it going to make this car unsafe in winter with snow tires? Or maybe the answer is a detuned flash for winter driving

I have been doing some reading on the v8 and v10 Audi FSI engines. Seems that the v10 in the S6 is like the big brother to the v8 4.2 FSI found in the Q7. It has the more restrictive exhaust with ceramic cats, and shares the same forged rods of the Q7 4.2. It is also designed for a redline about 7000rpm.

The Lambo V10 560-4 is like the big brother of the RS4 4.2 FSI. The V8 has a balanced crankshaft and other items designed for the 8250rpm redline. Cams are designed to work well with the higher redline.

If you look at the dynos, the Q7/S6/S8 engines do very well lower in the powerband, where the RS4/Lambo and R8 engines blow them away up top.

Anyway, this was interesting to me because it shows that improvements definitely could be made in the exhaust portion of the S6 v10. Also, MTM does a supercharger for the Q7 4.2 that takes it from 350hp to 500hp. If you run something with similar boost on the S6, you are looking at somewhere around 600-650hp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXnqwSkrb7E

#54

Also, there is a modified version of the 6HP26a used in the RS6 that can take a TON of power. However, used RS6 transmissions are $10k and only found in Europe. I was looking for a rebuild kit to see if mine could be rebuilt with the RS6 parts. Havent found any yet. Would have to talk to the guys overseas.

LevelTen - they do rebuilds but I have heard mixed reviews. What is the opinion around here of them? Could they rebuild this trans to take RS6 levels of power?

#55

I was advised that the level10 stuff wasn’t worth it, doesn’t actually strengthen the transmission. Maybe it’s possible to use parts from the rs6 transmission…

Are there similarities between the lambo v10 and yours? Could probably get a ridiculous amount of power with the v-3 si.

#56

There is a guide that compares the Q7 4.2 FSI to the RS4 4.2. The S6/S8 v10 are more like the Q7 engine with two extra cylinders. The RS4 4.2 is more like the R8/Lambo 560-4 engines, from what I can tell.

http://www.vaglinks.com/vaglinks_com/Docs/SSP/VWUSA.COM_SSP_921603_4.2L_V8_FSI_Engine.pdf
http://www.vaglinks.com/vaglinks_com/docs/ssp/VWUSA.COM_SSP_923603_5.2lL_V10_FSI_Engine.pdf

I can’t find the study guide for the R8 or Lambo v10, but it looks to be a lot like the RS4 engine, and there is mention of it in the 4.2 and 5.2 study guides.

I would guess the engine and trans would safely make about 650hp crank with a supercharger. 500tq at 7000rpm is 666hp (that would be a nice peak number for a mean sounding blacked out S666). I am sure you could make more, but maybe the rods and transmission would be of concern.

#57

Actually, I am no expert, but I can’t see the forged rods being unable to handle at least 75lb/ft each. So, they probably wouldnt be of a concern. Just the transmission then. Ill have to investigate the RS6 rebuild kit some more.

#58

from the study guide

Connecting rods

The connecting rods are a familiar trapezoidal design
forged from 36MnVS4 high-strength steel. This
design reduces oscillating masses and distributes the
combustion force more evenly.
The lower end of the connecting rods are cracked after
forging. During the cracking process, the connecting rod
is split at a predetermined breaking point using a special
tool. The resultant unique breaking surface ensures the
high joining precision of the two mating parts.
The connecting rods are cross-drilled to allow engine oil
to lubricate the rod bearings and piston pins.

Pistons
The cast aluminum pistons are manufactured by the firm
Kolben Schmidt. They have a special piston head design
that supports the FSI combustion principle. The design
aids in the tumble effect of the fuel mixture during its
intake stroke.
The piston skirts are electro-coated with a special ironbased
friction reducing material to minimize wear under
load.
Spray jets located on the engine block provide cooling to
the underside of the piston and the piston pins.

#59

By the way, you guys are taking me right back down the path to full retardation. The whole idea of the new car was to be less retarded, not more LOL.

#60

I make well past what the 6hp19 should make. My peak Tq is much more then what the transmission says it should be able to handle. The differences between the transmissions you have and the more power ones. Are the clutches and the pump. I know CV can tune that transmission because he tuned mine and it dosn’t slip and shifts faster.

Also look at the B8 S4 guys. They are making well past what there transmission say they can make.

Motor wise I don’t know much. I hear a few motors have issues with head stuff. And some with chain issues. I was in a local S8 CV tuned and exhaust car they are crazy.

#61

Good to know. I keep jumping ahead, but you’re right, bolt-ons/exhaust should be more than enough for me. I actually find it fast as it is, stock.

#62

750 tq ain’t happening with a cfuge

JHM has been using that v3 si on the b7 rs4 and b67 s4

The s5 engine (virtually the same as the q7) has handled plenty of power with the apr tvsr1740 and tts rotrex kits. 600 hp and about 500 tq (crank)

#63

Good info. Seems like lots of potential to go FI

#64

A little more info from another v10 study guide I found.

I was thinking the engine was just a v8 FSI plus two extra cylinders. It is, but there are a few other things different. From the guide:

Basic engine
The V10 FSI engine is based on the V8 FSI engine,
which has, in principle, “only” been upgraded to
include an additional pair of cylinders.
The basic concept of the cylinder crankcase and the
cylinder heads, as well as the timing gear, the fuel
system and the intake manifold concept, have been
adopted unchanged.

On the other hand, the crankshaft with balancer
shaft, the double-chambered intake with dual
throttle valves, the exhaust manifold and the
ECU concept are features specific to the V10.

#65

V10 crankshafts are a bit funny, so that its different makes sense. Do they mention if its a split or shared pin crank? Lambo has used both.

The stock headers are slick, weird to have cats before the merge but such is the way in an emissions conscious world.

Interesting note on the dual throttle back plates. Iirc its due to the intake being split to either side. Would be interesting to have a tb with two different sized plated for idle stability and high end power.

#66

hey B

From the guide

crankshaft has been forged as a split-pin shaft

This study guide seems more technical then the one I posted earlier. Lots of cool details

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.a8parts.co.uk%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D4787%26d%3D1348124424&ei=PC6VU7mJO9WpyAT7sIH4Dg&usg=AFQjCNFSDVIDFDHmEpc7CwR1jDF0r50CTw

#67

I’ll take a look later, always cool reading more about the engines.

Split pin V10s will have an evenly spaced 72* firing order.

#68

I had to look up split-pin, after you mentioned it. So, is that design used to provide a smoother running v10, compared to shared?

#69

yes on a 90* bank angle V10. Vipers use a 90* shared pin crank and thats why they’ve got a bit of a funny sound (uneven firing order, I think it alternates between 54* and 90*). 18* split pin crank 90* V10s should fire evenly at 72* every time. a 72* bank angle V10 will fire at 72* every time with shared pins, I think the LFA V10 is a 72*.

the uneven firing pulses isn’t as big an issue with a V10 as it is with a V6 since the gap between them is smaller (90* and 150* on a 90* shared pin V6).

#70

Cool. I am surprised how smooth the engine is, especially at low RPM. It is begging for an exhaust though, as you can hardly hear it from inside the car, even at WOT.

#71

cool insight into the header design in there

600 cell cats :o

too bad they skimp on details for forged v cast for the rods/pistons, in the past not explicitly mentioned forged means cast

#72

The pistons are cast but the rods are forged, I believe. I think I read that in another study guide. Ill doublecheck