Why start your post with lol? Was it the nice car coment, that the kit ‘looked well put together’ (my guess), the wish for awesome results, or the thank you, sir?
Anyway glad that you passed on it, I’m loving it!
For dyno stuff: your stance is you have to take your car to a competitor to get a valid dyno result? Has any shop done that ever? Is that common practice? I’m a reasonable guy…that doesn’t sound reasonable. The dyno operator has no idea it’s AMD. AMD didn’t make the appointment, AMD didn’t pay the operator.
You got it, I’ll share when I have the final numbers (you don’t have to do the seemingly passive aggressive insinuation, though, that no one is interested in what I’m posting today. Let’s not go there…we’re off to a good thread here!) Your wording of it being “a beta kit in testing” is false as clarified above, and as evidenced by the hardware being for sale today…but that’s not my battle to fight.
Looks like I am defending on the points being brought up, because my experiences and facts are contrary to what is being brought up, and I think it’s only fair to present them. I don’t think price was clear for base kit, was it? Thought I added some value there sharing what I paid at least, and thought there were a couple of other nuggets in there, but OK I hear you on the confusion of it’s ready or not ready or whatever - - that’s not my battle to fight, and we’ve discussed the various reasons for why that confusion may exist.
Now, your last statement is really interesting, and amazing to me. Honestly. How do you believe you’re in the know on those results? Who told you that lie? It’s 100% false. The other dyno read about 20-25whp higher than the AMD dyno…I have no problem sharing that.
Lol was because you skipped over the clutch question. You came back to it. As I said I posted and a dozen posts happened between.
I wasn’t serious about dynoing in alabama. Just saying that if someone wants me to believe a shop provided dyno, have their competitor do it.
Really the dyno proves only that ink sticks to paper. I don’t care if you dyno 330 or 530. If you run 12.1 @ 116 it will say a lot more.
Looking forward to seeing it move forward. I like that they’re holding back. I don’t like that they come on this forum and attack the place because one guy kicks the shit out of Jason. I also don’t like epl tuning anything, so if what you said (about tuning being wide open) is true we may yet see great things from the kit. If epl is the only one tuning it (and so far they are four for four) I reckon we will see lots of ‘the dragstrip doesn’t matter’ posts from Jason and his troll customers.
Dyno - like I said before: i think it’s a useful tool for baselining and measuring improvements. It’s not the only tool, but it is one. I don’t believe in the reality of doing them at competitors, and I don’t think that means they don’t have integrity. If there is question on one set of results, certainly seems like going to another one to prove that theory false is a stand up move and should remove all doubt. Not believing that dyno’s results - - yeah, that’s too far a stretch for me. To me that’s getting towards believing Bush was behind 9/11(which, uh, I don’t believe ).
I can’t think of a reason to ever dyno my car. Tuners who cling to the dyno are often terrified of real performance measurements
At the end of the day we bought power adders to go faster, not to wave printouts of how great our car is. Ever pull up beside a friend at a light and declare yourself the winner because your dyno sheet is bigger? Ever see them hand someone the trophy or money before a race?
Nope. If you’re a tuner and use the dyno, that’s great, but if you’re using it to sell, something is usually wrong with the picture.
I understand your viewpoint.
I like seeing 1/4 mile results, I like seeing dyno results, I like seeing them both even more. Contrary to you, I do see a use for dyno data (if you’re always using the same exact one) as a (not ‘the’) measure of improvement. Especially as the scope of any one improvement is on the smaller end of power gains, I think the dyno does a better job of consistently controlling variables to pinpoint amount of hp/tq gains. What you interpret those gains to mean is a whole other question (and I believe this is what you’re getting at). Looks like differ in opinion on “using dyno results to sell”, also, which is, of course, fine :). I see most every shop post dyno results with their products to articulate hp/tq gains and I don’t see anything wrong with that practice. As I said, having both dyno and 1/4 is best. Having only one or the other only will always leave doubt (I don’t believe it’s truly possible to correct 1/4 results for wind, temp, moisture and normalize these across different days in a foolproof way).
I can make a dyno say whatever I want. I can’t make an nhra certified dragstrip timeslip say whatever I want.
It’s as simple as that.
If we as a community lower the barrier to entry by accepting the dyno as proof of a concept working, all kinds of scammers are allowed to play. You also end up with a slew of products and tuners who create products to be dyno fast (make power and accelerate in gear) but you find those products/tuners struggle when they’re put up against a real world acceleration test (rowing through a few gears from a stop like we all do dozens of times every day).
This is the current situation in the b5 s4 world that you recently left. Everyone focuses on the dyno. When there is pushback for more data, the tuners who have geared their tuning and products to excel on the dyno (but who struggle in real world acceleration tests) come up with an acceleration test that mimics the dyno. The 60-130.
Your shop is the prototype for what I’ve just described above. That is why they get so much flak on this site. People here recognize that the dyno or 60-130 have an inherent weakness, whereas the dragstrip exposes that weakness. Amd or epl HATE that we understand this a d speak about it. Then their fan boys (and even AMD’s lone employee) come here and tell us the 60-130 and the dyno are the way to go and that we are all wrong and that we and our forum are trash. All class. How about you just make a car that fucking accelerates properly and you will get a pat on the back.
We saw this in the supra world years ago. Then B5 S4. Wil it happen to the B6/7 S4/RS4? It will if we are not careful.
Welcome to the forum RS4Per! You are very well spoken and the car and supercharger look awesome.
$11k is a nice chunk of change, I gotta ask ya, was it worth it? I am not bashing the price at all, just wondering if you would do it all over again knowing the difference it made for the car.
I look forward to seeing more updates about this beast.
On a funny note, a buddy of mine who has a Supra with ~900hp (I sold mine years ago) just was wearing a shirt the other day, “ROLL RACE ME, BRO.” Thought it was pretty funny. ;D
My answer is, “Yes, 100%, it was worth it and I’d do it again”. It’s a different car altogether. I was looking for great value (performance @ price) on entry, ability to expand on power in the future without scrapping the majority of the setup, and I wanted the tuner / manufacturer to be local if at all possible. I got all three.
We can probably consider this horse dead and beaten
To summarize: I believe dyno results are useful tools and I don’t object to them being used as a piece of data to tell a story. I prefer seeing more than just dyno results to tell a complete story. You don’t see dyno results credible at all, unless it would be done by a competitor, due to risk of being able to fudge the results. We disagree here a bit, that’s all good. I appreciate that you’re passionate about making sure all tuners present the complete story.
Not wanting to get into the ‘shops make up other measurements because they can’t prove results on existing ones’ (but thanks for your perspective), I do find the 60-130 measurement interesting in that it probably speaks to track scenarios fairly well (not strip)? With that in mind, I’d probably find the most value if all tuners took these cars to the Nürburgring and leave the straight line to the Mustangs
Wow. Hi to you, too.
What makes you believe I’m lying?
What facts do you have to evaluate it as ‘some POS sc’?
11k is a lot of money, yes. I have gotten what I wanted in return. I would do it all over again, twice. If you don’t want to believe that for some reason or another - that’s fine, you’re entitled. If you wouldn’t spend that money yourself, that’s fine also.
looking forward to those numbers and 1/4 time. I would expect better than 11.6 (good DA) based on AMDs gloating and bashing of other products on the market. Anything less than 11.6 with your mod list is a AMD failure in my opinion.
Rs4per seems nice and its grest to have him. .he seems to be one more in the short list of amd blind dyno lovers…we all have seen the pes 460whp 12.6 1/4 mile cars…lets not forget he is saying the exact same thing that everyone who bought and sold there pes kit has said…he has every right to enjoy the car faster or slower…the attempt to not be overwhelmingly pro amd and to try amd help fix the utter disaster of amd and its terrible rep has gone over ok…it wont be enough to fix the terrible name or rep for amd…
Certian points rs4per is going to get from amd so that is all he will know. 90% of certian things told to him by amd could be all wrong but he wouldn’t really know so anything second hand as he has as facts are not his fault…
Agreed…I think there last 12sec results say there in big troubble…my million dolar bet is amd will just turn up the boost amd go typical amd…where results are more impronant then testing and customers cars saftey
I’m all up for having a grown up conversation and will engage in such, I won’t engage in something to the contrary.
The question that I answered was ‘Would I do it again?’, and that’s a question only I can answer, and I answered it truthfully. If you find that hard to believe - ok, there’s nothing I can do about that, but it doesn’t change the truth of my answer. If you wouldn’t spend that much yourself - all good, no one is asking you to and that wasn’t the question. Calling me a liar because you apparently wouldn’t answer the same way is totally off-base and inappropriate.
A key point in this discussion: I understand you or others are not in a position to make a buying decision at this point not having seen the data. Makes sense. I also realize the angst/doubt not having seen numbers / driven the car yourself. BUT - I’m in a different position as you and others, as I have witnessed the progress the kit has made and where it’s at today, and I enjoy driving the car daily. To beat another dead horse: I’m very happy with what I’m getting for the money I spent.
In regards to dyno numbers, please re-read my prior posts as it was covered in depth. I’ll share when I have final ones.
Thanks for the reply! As always there are haters but your response and the way you handle the criticism is commendable. $11k may seem like a lot but there are a lot of nice parts in this kit and the fact that they install for free is awesome. Do you know how many hours it takes to install the kit? Just curious.
Either way, I love to see companies pushing the envelope on this platform, and I appreciate real world information about people who actually have the product. (Ever notice that 99% of people who hate on something don’t even own the product?)
I can honestly say I believe you that it’s worth the price of admission and I anxiously await more data about this setup.
I hear you on the confusion of it’s ready or not ready or whatever - - that’s not my battle to fight, and we’ve discussed the various reasons for why that confusion may exist.