Hi All. Owner of the RS4 with the AMD S/C base kit checking in.

B6/7 S4/RS4
#161

Just for the record, NOBODY labelled the kit a failure until they took the 1.0 kit to Pacific Raceway

15 PSI
bigger fuel pumps
big cooling
catless 3" downpipes
2.75" exhaust

Density was well below 0 feet…in otherwords, PERFECT

The car went low 12s at high teens. That’s a disaster for the big kit. No matter which way you slice it.

I understand that it’s cheaper than APR. No offense Arin, but that’s because APR is FUCKING EXPENSIVE. You have said that the 0.9 kit is matching APR. It is not. It is matching it on a dyno run done by AMD compared to a dyno run done at APR. In other words, neither is useful.

Here is what APR has done: 11.8 @ 117-119

What has AMD 1.0 done? Low 12s on their $15,000 kit (that is slower than APR, at the same price FYI)

What has AMD 0.9 done? Here Larry…watch this video and tell me what you think. I think the AMD car vs. stock (left video) is pulling like a tune and bolt ons RS4 (the video on the right). Not pulling like a supercharged RS4.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz8lO2aLwXs

#162

“What you think” probably carries earth shattering weight but rest of the world prefers to view and analyze data themself. At some point there where be AMD and APR cars together and that will essentially tell the tale. You guys swear by 1/4 but not everyone does bc there are two many variable. For example, with my EPL I’ve run 1.82 60’ at 109 trap and still not a good ET. Why, maybe I’m just not that good at it or maybe there’s other factors such as tires, pressures etc. There’s just too many variables to compare 1/4 and ET and use that as an end all and be all.

#163

^^ so comparing dyno numbers is somehow better? Explain that

#164

No, comparing cross dyno is almost as useless

#165

Lots of good points on both sides of the spectrum… My big question is… Why does it have to come down to everyone having to guess, question, theorize, etc etc over a released FI kit. Why go through all this drama and having beta customers taking all the heat with questions. I’ve been there before and this is an exact repeat. I was very hopefull for amd but after seeing all the pressure they’re putting on their beta customers, its a turn off.

AMD (and other companies out there) need to learn from other markets (ie: Japanese) in releasing their own data and testing. Explain how the engineering was done, testing that was done to get the results etc. That’s what I admire about the Japanese market, most of the high performance mods are transparent in information.

I used to think it was cool and felt special when PES was telling me I was beta, getting custom tuned… Don’t share info with anyone its top secret… No one knows what they’re talking about on the forums, your car is way fast! Ps… Go do some dyno runs and 1/4 mile… Ok sounds great! Then you realize you’re paying out of your pocket to prove someones unproven kit for them…

per just be careful and don’t get in too deep… You can be easily taken advantage of here, as I did with pes. Don’t feel like you need to do all of their testing just because you got a “deal”. They owe it to you to prove the kit they put in your car performs your preference, not the other way around.

good luck brotha and hang in there… Enjoy the car and make sure to do the testing for your own pleasure, not to please anyone on the forums, especially AMD… That should be their job.

#166

These supposed “variables” can easily be corrected. Run the same tire pressure and similar tires. What other problems are there with 1/4 mile?

#167

you’re talking in circles

If you cut a 1.82 60’, that means you nailed it. The tire pressure etc. is out the window (along with your buddy’s timeslips). The fact you went 109 is nice. What is your modlist? Start a thread and we’ll go through it. No flaming. let’s analyze the information. If your ET is bad for 109 trap, that means 2 things

  1. your tune doesn’t handle the throttle very well and lags in each gear. APR experience problems with the throttle on their SC kit and when they brought in outside help, the result was night and day. Not much of a power change…but a tuning dynamics change that was huge.

  2. you are shifting like Mick and taking 0.7-0.8 seconds in between gears (where you’re coasting and not accelerating). This will also hurt your trap speed.

We all buy parts for our cars to make them faster, and the best way to measure how much faster we go is to measure how much faster we go.

#168

The problem is there are so many people willing to be the test dummies that companies can/should continue to operate in this way. For them, they get some payout regardless of whether the kit succeeds or not so they can at least limit their research costs. But if everyone just takes the stance or sitting back and just seeing what’s developed the market would be forcing companies to have final products before coming to market. It’s the same for all these venders. I think I saw someone mention they can get a beta RS4 JHM s/c. That just makes no sense either. Just let vendors develop their products and when it’s truly ready for consumer comsumption and the data can be seen and felt, have at it. Same thing happenned when the APR came out. People were upset with the initial performance and eventually it got corrected. If no one bought that kit until it was truly right all the first buyers would have been better off too. So there’s the cost of wanting to say “I had it first.” If it’s a cost people are comfortable with, so be it and be prepared for the up and down journey.

#169

Larry, you didn’t answer my questions

  1. So…if car A has a 10% ‘bottom end’ advantage from 0-6000 RPM…but is identical to car B from 6000-8000, please explain how in a race from 0 to 1320 feet, it’s ‘over’ for car B?

  2. what do you think of the AMD 0.9 kit when you compare these two pull videos, side by side?


http://audirevolution.net/uploads/player_thumbs/2Vqv5fT5noGRkEXKgLoA.jpg
Watch “AMD RS4 Supercharger JHM RS4 Tune/Piggies” on AudiRevolution.net

#170

I understand that want to think this is a great kit…frankly its not…everyone encluding apr realized the over extended low low tq reading on rs4pers car…lets start with that. . Not ome person missed that rs4pers car dynoed well below stock on both tq and hp…

The low tq is an issue because the 1900tvs luggs down low and isgoing to hurt tq…unless you have a 6.0 motor the 1900tvs is killing the 4.2 down low…amd knows that so they took the happy low dyno reading that no one believes…we saw the best dyno sheet from the paid amd spokes guys…ok…its the best they have still way lower then apr when you do the numbers.

I see your point about if the stage 1amd lowboost can keep in the apr ring is good…no here is why… for starters apr dynoed on a stock car before ajd after…amd didnt…one more attempt to pad the stats…two ok so the amd kit got a dismle 410whp corrected corrected is code for it did wose but we got a bump…so the amd kit can put out a noj impressive 410whp…the pes kits put down more then that…the argument can then jump to…one dyno vs another…ok… the apr kit will make 430whp back to back to back to back… the amd kit is just like the pes kit…one pull at 410 amd thats it…next pull after the rotors are heat soaked your at 370…next pull your at 350…and your just pushing a ton of hot air…people dont talk abkut how the tvs units are huge heat whores…show me one car a tvs blower comes on in the oem with no cooling…

We saw an acceleration test vs a stock s4… it was no better then a tuned jhm car with no bloser

#171

you’re talking in circles

If you cut a 1.82 60’, that means you nailed it. The tire pressure etc. is out the window (along with your buddy’s timeslips). The fact you went 109 is nice. What is your modlist? Start a thread and we’ll go through it. No flaming. let’s analyze the information. If your ET is bad for 109 trap, that means 2 things

  1. your tune doesn’t handle the throttle very well and lags in each gear. APR experience problems with the throttle on their SC kit and when they brought in outside help, the result was night and day. Not much of a power change…but a tuning dynamics change that was huge.

  2. you are shifting like Mick and taking 0.7-0.8 seconds in between gears (where you’re coasting and not accelerating). This will also hurt your trap speed.

We all buy parts for our cars to make them faster, and the best way to measure how much faster we go is to measure how much faster we go.
[/quote]
If someone can granny shift and trap into a 109.23 then I’ll clap for them

#172

You still haven’t answered the questions.

p.s. watch this video now. Bone stock RS4.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jwVIdAp3ZE

#173

Let’s start a PayPal fund to collect money to bring Per down to Portland to a dyno in town (I think there are more than 1…anyone picks that cares) and do some pulls. There is also an APR SC car here (unless Dean sold it) and they can get on the dyno same day. Then, maybe they can hit the strip, but if nothing else, should be able to do some pulls. That is the easiest solution to this “issue” that I can see (easy for me to say, when it isn’t my car and not my drive from Seattle to Portland)

I know, I know. You’re going to call BS at anyone other than AMD paying for this…just an idea.

One thing I’ll point out, is that while EVERYONE on this board is quick to talk about how worthless dyno sheets are, they sure are referencing them a LOT in the argument that is being made that the AMD kit sucks. Further, the super scientific videos are about as precise and reliable as a dyno sheet.

Very few, if any, people will question anyone for calling it a failure IF and WHEN REAL data exists and it under performs. At this point, the only “actual” data are dyno sheets. And lets not forget that we’ve already established that dyno sheets don’t matter.

So, with dyno sheets discredited, what EVIDENCE is there that the AMD kit is actually crap? Is it the hear-say times that the 1.0 ran at the strip? Why not wait until actual times are posted and “claimed” and then evaluate?

#174

I’ll paypal to see the car go to the strip…any driver he wants too.

Also would like to see him vs a APR supercharged car…or a JHM RS4

You know that the dyno discussions that come up the most on this site are of 600whp B5s that run mid 12s at the track. I don’t deny that the dyno isn’t a great tool, but I don’t think it should be used as the single basis for performance to launch a product. Dyno and 1/4mile…ok, just 1/4 mile would be fine. Can everyone replicate a 1/4 mile because of variables…well no, but it’s a pretty good measure and if a shop has a slip and video it’s going to make a huge impact.

I personally did both dynos and 1/4mile times in my S4 to see the gains. It was nothing more than for personal use that I shared with the forum, but my power numbers on the dyno were proportional to what my car did at a track.

I’d have less of a problem with the dyno charts that Per posted if they didn’t look abnormally low…and if he didn’t use terminology like “corrected.”

#175

I never thought I’d see the day that this thread went from a bunch of hot air with cell phone videos and dyno interpretations to actually figuring out how to generate useful data. Congrats Jared, you are a pioneer!

#176

Jareds941…why would we do anything. … rs4per is the paid spokesman he claims to have done all this indepemdent testing and even went to compair to the apr kit…that he pourpusly got the detials wrong on…the rolling joke is this is classic amd dyno fixing… we don’t like the dyno because you can manipulate it… just like amd did to make thsre results look better… if the amd spokes guy wants to go after apr the. Apr match dyno information as we already know amd flopped at the track…

We all see whe4e this is going. … amd will push there stage 2 intercooled high pressure kit way way further then anyone else will… doing who knows how much damage…they did the same thing with the b5…they will parade the dyno sheet around and maybe take the csr with unsafe boost levels to the track…at this point it almost dosent matter how fast it runs…they never posted the first results and we all know they had to go back to the drawing board…even tho…THE KIT IS READY FOR SALE…whe. its not done not tested and not proven

It seems amd has no care for customers…we can expect a 40 or maybe 50hp jump with the intercooler kit as they learned there lession here…amd has blown up several customer cars some more then once looking to sell products no matter how unsafe or how untested…

We here just keep putting amds feet to the fire because they couldnt talk enough shit on apr now 8t seems there parts are shit comoaired to apr

#177

What is your theory on UFOs and Roswell NM and Area 51?

#178

Much unlike this amd failure cover up and attempt to save the nightmare that has been a failure…

Area 51…weather baloons…mostly

Oh and a big shout out to axel. Dont fuck with him…he has made several razer sharp points. .

#179

I

  1. The 1.0 car already went to the strip Jared. It ran a time not dissimilar to the time Mick just added to drag times. If Mick really ran that time, he should understand that it’s pretty sad to be supercharged and match it or barely beat it. That was the ‘high pressure’ kit. Also known as the full monty. Or hail Mary. Or full beans.

  2. I don’t care about dyno results as much as I do about acceleration but amd won’t share anything else lol. What do you expect people to talk about on this board or any other?

  3. If the car races an Apr car and ties it or barely beats it what will that prove? That they have managed to use a giant blower and are as fast as the little 1320 they mocked so openly on quattrofail? Way to go AMD. You ran 190% of boost APR did, with four less cats, with much bigger downpipes and catback exhaust, 100% of the cost, 145% displacement of the APR blower…and you struggled to even tie the APR kit.

  4. Why do you need to see per do some pulls? He already did vs a basically stock car (had milltek catted stock diameter exhaust). He put the same gap on it as mistro did on my stock rs4. Thing is mistro only has JHM bolt ons: tune/piggies/spacers/clutch/lwfw/lwcp.

Rs4per on the left Vid, mistro on the right Vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz8lO2aLwXs

#180

  1. I covered this in my post. You are going off of rumor. There was no video. There was no slip posted. Didn’t an APR SC go to the strip and post a slower time at first? You are taking your “sources” accounts of this trip to the strip as the final judgement. That’s crazy. You are right that it went and ran whatever. But the 1.0 car wasn’t done. It was a development exercise. You’ll notice, they didn’t release any times because it is still in development.

  2. sure. talk away. But you should do it with the context that you don’t have complete info yet, if your goal really is to make sure that potential consumers are educated on the FACTS.

  3. Who cares what they used to get there? If it was even with APR, then you’d have a lower cost option for the same price. Further, it would be upgradeable if you wanted. Comparing apples to apples…seems like lower cost, same performance usually wins. Add the ability to upgrade for less money, and you have a winner, no? (this is rhetorical, as I know you’re not going to crown AMD a winner anytime soon. :wink: Oh, and then there is the part where you could buy the lower cost hardware and have it tuned elsewhere to “maximize” the hardware…again, not seeing the problem here.

  4. Your cell phone video comparison is just that…a cell phone video comparison. Four different cars. Two different roads. Four different drivers. 2 different POVs. You can hold that as your “proof”, but under any other context, you’d be the first to call BS.

A lot of times you seem pretty rational and I “think” your motives are sincere. On this, it seems like a witch hunt to lump AMD as a loser. Which is fine I guess. But at the same time, you’re basically doing exactly what you preach against. You’re posting and talking about a product/vendor in absolute terms. You’re no doubt swaying people’s opinions away from AMD to TTS/APR/JHM (ironic, because JHM has released NOTHING on the RS4 SC front, yet you’ve already put a gold star on it). Really, you’re doing the same thing that happened with PES, just in reverse. PES made performance claims that weren’t legit. You’re making anti-performance claims that can’t be verified at this point, which therefore makes them not legit.