That is a great looking car!
If I could get my gas reimbursement added to my vehicle allowance this would be a serious option for my next vehicle…
(If you look at the price, and anticipated depreciation (which is a total crapshoot) net of the govt’ reimbursement, it looks like a pretty interesting scenario to price out.
They’re being taken to task for their marketing…claiming it will only cost $200 a month to drive one net of depreciation and gov’t money. That’s a bit aggressive. The lawsuits should be plentiful if depreciation turns out to be just like normal luxury cars.
Compared to most of the other luxury cars on the market these seem to be holding their value it the moment. I can assume that is attributed to the cache surrounding the brand and the fact that they are the only electric car in the market that can actually stand up to a gas car.
Was hearing about GM claiming they are working on a 200 mile EV that will be priced in the 30k dollar range. It may get some traction but I believe that one of the biggest things that tesla has and no one else has is their supercharger network. basically 40-60 minutes for a full charge that keeps falling (something about getting it down to 10 minutes) or a battery exchange is what makes these cars quite practical compared to other EV’s that can take up to 14 hours to get a full charge (and only get 80 miles).
With an AWD model in pipes, an SUV and the next gen model that will be priced at around 40k and also the company working on a new hybrid battery system that will increase range by 40% PLUS the driveline agreements with Daimler and Toyota to supply units for thier EV’s the sky is seemingly the limit for Elon and Tesla.
Even Mercedes proudly touted their new Electric B-Class as having “Tesla inside”.
resale in 2012-2013 is awesome because htey had produced like 17 cars. However when you look in 2 years after they’ve been in full production I think it will be less fantastic.
It’s like when the R8 came out…you could sell a used one in 2008 for more than they were new. Now that there are a few years of production, those guys who bought them in 2009 thinking they could pull a fast one are seeing depreciation to the tune of about $30,000-50,000 over 4 years. Still pretty good for an R8, but nothing like the early days of 0 depreciation for 12 months.
Where’d you get that statistic on the cost of charge? I got mine from tesla themselves
Dollar-wise, anyone looking at a S7, 550i, cls550 would be ahead with a P85 after 100,000 km. This is assuming oil stays the same the next 5 years…ummmm yeah.
Ill post the picture again, but it’s pretty neat…so few moving parts, all big modules that are easily swapped. Battery pack is protected very very well with the algorithms such that it can’t be over-depleted or overheated, and an 8-year warranty. And replaced very very easily. I’d worry a lot more about a 100,000 km turbo Audi or AMG motor.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/20/tu8a5y8y.jpg
That’s also assuming that
a) someone drives 30,000 kms per year
b) depreciation on the Tesla is dramatically less than market, as it has been in it’s first 2 years…and that honeymoon continues
Those two things are not realistic. In fact b) is a bit foolish to bank on.
Driving an S6 and averaging 18 MPG for 12,000 miles per year (it’s better but I’m appeasing you), you’re looking at $2666 / year with $4 gallon oil and over 5 years that’s less than $13,000. So…advantage $13,000 to Tesla right? Wrong.
The Tesla owner, while being allowed to leave his local area, would spend what exactly on power to ‘fill up’ ? They have to do so around 300 times to go 60,000 miles over 5 years at 200 miles per charge. That costs about $10-12 per charge depending where you live. More in some places. That’s $3000-3600. So the advantage is only about $10,000 now. Last time I checked, my hydro bill keeps going up, and the costs of delivery are going up even quicker than the price of oil. You can’t forget that oil has gone from $29 to $100 in the last 4 years, but before that it went from $150 to 29 in 3 years. And from $70 to 100 today in 10 years. It’s not a runaway train. The irony in your oil comment is that the hydro bill you and I receive is driven primarily by fossil fuel power. Also, oil will move ahead if the economy moves ahead. I haven’t seen too many signs of that happening, especially when the fastest growing economy of size, China, is slowing dramatically.
How are you ‘ahead’ in the Tesla vs. the Germans you listed? The only thing the Tesla is ‘ahead’ in is thinking ahead on how to charge the thing if they want to go anywhere. Or thinking ahead to the phone number for Enterprise Rent A Car if they want to leave town for a weekend.
Full charge on a 85KWh battery back is around 3-6 bucks if you are charging at home (depending on your utility)
All cars above the 60KWh battery supercharging is included in the purchase price and to demonstrate range capabilities of the car and the supercharger network he will be driving one across the continent. Supercharger network is free for however long the car is in existence.
By 2015 all the red dots will be active supercharger stations…
http://www.teslamotors.com/tesla_theme/supercharger/images/supercharger-map_06-2015.jpg?20130912
For me as a canadian aside from the fact that one has to make their own financing arrangements, the fact is that the payment for the tesla on a standard finance setup is roughly 13-1500 a month. I pay 1200 a month taxes in for my S4 so jumping to a tesla is not a huge difference. Taking into consideration that I would buy 3-4 tanks of gas a month at about 100 bucks the tesla is a pretty decent option all things considered. If one was coming from a camry to a tesla that would be a different story. If you are already in the E class, Audi S4/A6, BMW 5er payment range it makes sense to consider it as an option.
Interesting listening to analysts at bloomberg shit all over tesla because BMW and Audi are coming to market with EV’s but the one thing that they don’t have now is the fast charging technology that Tesla does have and the network to back it up. Also the i8’s electric range is a joke at 25-35km and can only go up to 120kph in E mode. Just to point out as well the tesla is a faster car.
I think down the road if tesla starts to forge more tech partnerships we will start to see other manufacturers gaining access to their supercharger network. I would assume Mercedes would be the most likely partner on that front.
Where’d you get that statistic on the cost of charge? I got mine from tesla themselves
in BC at step one residential rate it costs $5.865 to “fill” a 85KWh tesla. (you get ~1200KWh before they step you up to 10 cents a KWh)
By comparison my S4 costs 95 bucks to fill up at todays 94 octane price. That’s a ~$90 savings every time I fill up and the range is roughly the same on both cars. With payment the same and say 3 fill-ups a month you are banking $270 a month if you went off payment alone.
In the end who am I to talk about fuel consumption, i daily a range rover with a 5L v8 :
(which is surprisingly not bad on fuel)
^^^ok, so you’re referring to solely the cost of charge, and you’re assuming the lower rate of a graduated rate scale…and you’re not accounting for any hydro delivery charges. Right?
How is the range on the S4 the same as the Tesla? Tesla should be good for 200 miles of driving with some spirited sessions in there. The S4 should be good for at least 300 or 350. No?
And just to be clear, nobody is arguing the Tesla won’t be ‘cheaper’ for the cost of it’s ‘fuel’. I posted on the previous page using national average for solely consumption, it is about $10 per fill which is good for about 200 miles of mixed driving (vs. 300 miles of hypermiling which is irrelevant since we’re comparing it to 400-450 hp German performance cars…and the 85P stands for performance). The point is the apparent ‘savings’ don’t add up when people quote 300 miles per charge or artificially high driving averages. It’s about $10,000 over 5 years if you get SHIT mileage out of the S6 (18mpg). I get about 18 mpg average out of my Rs4 and the S6 is far better equipped to be fuel efficient. The S6 has turbos, cylinder deactivation and DSG. There’s no chance it’s worse on average than my RS4. If you get about 22 mpg out of the S6, you’re looking at a gap now of only $8000 for ‘fuel’.
My S4 would get 420-430km on a full tank of 94. Mainly city driving. Though I might be more of an outlier than the norm…
in BC at step one residential rate it costs $5.865 to “fill” a 85KWh tesla. (you get ~1200KWh before they step you up to 10 cents a KWh)
By comparison my S4 costs 95 bucks to fill up at todays 94 octane price. That’s a ~$90 savings every time I fill up and the range is roughly the same on both cars. With payment the same and say 3 fill-ups a month you are banking $270 a month if you went off payment alone.
In the end who am I to talk about fuel consumption, i daily a range rover with a 5L v8 : (which is surprisingly not bad on fuel)
outlier how…bad mileage wise? If you’re 420-430 mainly city, that’s very good.
Driving a Tesla in traffic and city commuting without plugging it in every night, you get…well let’s let a Tesla owner who posted on the Tesla website explain.
[quote]85kw model s real life range test
teslabruin | 9 Février 2013
I decided to take a week of Los Angeles short distance commuting to see how far my model s 85kw performance will go according to true life parameters. I thought this would be helpful to owners out there. I charged it to the recommended 240 miles (to preserve ultimate battery life). Then I drove my typical 10-20 miles a day.
I admit I am an aggressive driver, and usually never miss an opportunity to gun it, but for this week I drove “grandmother slow”. I averaged 390 Mw/ mile. With aggressive driving I am typically in the 450-500 mW/mile range. I was surprised how fast the range was dropping. When I left the house on the final morning it showed 43 miles easily enough to drive the 15 miles I had to go that day. Well with a bit of anxiety I creeped into my driveway at the end of the day with 11 miles on the range left, no climate control, barely hitting the gas pedal out of fear. So how far did I actually make it?..132 miles. Honestly, it takes nothing away from my love of the car. I know I must simply charge it regularly, avoid the hot doggin range testing. I have driven 1100 mile since my delivery December 22, and couldn’t be happier!
[/quote]
http://www.teslamotors.com/fr_CH/forum/forums/85kw-model-s-real-life-range-test
Of course all the nannies are on him for not plugging it in every 5 minutes or for driving it fast. What’s the fucking point of the $100,000 performance model (which wants to take sales away from actual performance cars) if youaren’t allowed to fully charge it or to use it for performance driving?
If you’re paying $10 for 132 miles…this is vastly different to the assumptions we used above. Once you use more normal numbers (i.e. low 20s for the S6 and sub 200 range for the Tesla) now you’re seeing that $10,000 gap shrink to about $6,000. Hurts the financial case for sure. Add in about $7,000 in average credits from the government and where are we?
$10,000-12,000 more than an S6 for a car that is slower, less nice, brakes worse, maxes out worse, and can’t leave town without puckering your arsehole out of range anxiety.
p.s. anyone notice that they recommend you don’t FULLY charge the tesla, in order to preserve long battery life? What’s with that?
^^^ok, so you’re referring to solely the cost of charge, and you’re assuming the lower rate of a graduated rate scale…and you’re not accounting for any hydro delivery charges. Right?
How is the range on the S4 the same as the Tesla? Tesla should be good for 200 miles of driving with some spirited sessions in there. The S4 should be good for at least 300 or 350. No?
And just to be clear, nobody is arguing the Tesla won’t be ‘cheaper’ for the cost of it’s ‘fuel’. I posted on the previous page using national average for solely consumption, it is about $10 per fill which is good for about 200 miles of mixed driving (vs. 300 miles of hypermiling which is irrelevant since we’re comparing it to 400-450 hp German performance cars…and the 85P stands for performance). The point is the apparent ‘savings’ don’t add up when people quote 300 miles per charge or artificially high driving averages. It’s about $10,000 over 5 years if you get SHIT mileage out of the S6 (18mpg). I get about 18 mpg average out of my Rs4 and the S6 is far better equipped to be fuel efficient. The S6 has turbos, cylinder deactivation and DSG. There’s no chance it’s worse on average than my RS4. If you get about 22 mpg out of the S6, you’re looking at a gap now of only $8000 for ‘fuel’.
p.s. here’s an interesting comparo. The Audi obliterates the Tesla on the performance tests other than the irrelevant ‘top gear’ tests and street start from 5 mph which favour the instatorque no gearbox Tesla.
TESLA MODEL S
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 12.1 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 21.4 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 4.5 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 1.8 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 2.3 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 104 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 134 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 160 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.91 g
Audi S6
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 3.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 9.2 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 16.1 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 4.9 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 2.1 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 2.6 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.1 sec @ 115 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 155 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 157 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g
My S4 would get 420-430km on a full tank of 94. Mainly city driving. Though I might be more of an outlier than the norm…
outlier how…bad mileage wise? If you’re 420-430 mainly city, that’s very good.
Driving a Tesla in traffic and city commuting without plugging it in every night, you get…well let’s let a Tesla owner who posted on the Tesla website explain.
[quote]85kw model s real life range test
teslabruin | 9 Février 2013
I decided to take a week of Los Angeles short distance commuting to see how far my model s 85kw performance will go according to true life parameters. I thought this would be helpful to owners out there. I charged it to the recommended 240 miles (to preserve ultimate battery life). Then I drove my typical 10-20 miles a day.
I admit I am an aggressive driver, and usually never miss an opportunity to gun it, but for this week I drove “grandmother slow”. I averaged 390 Mw/ mile. With aggressive driving I am typically in the 450-500 mW/mile range. I was surprised how fast the range was dropping. When I left the house on the final morning it showed 43 miles easily enough to drive the 15 miles I had to go that day. Well with a bit of anxiety I creeped into my driveway at the end of the day with 11 miles on the range left, no climate control, barely hitting the gas pedal out of fear. So how far did I actually make it?..132 miles. Honestly, it takes nothing away from my love of the car. I know I must simply charge it regularly, avoid the hot doggin range testing. I have driven 1100 mile since my delivery December 22, and couldn’t be happier!
[/quote]
http://www.teslamotors.com/fr_CH/forum/forums/85kw-model-s-real-life-range-test
Of course all the nannies are on him for not plugging it in every 5 minutes or for driving it fast. What’s the fucking point of the $100,000 performance model (which wants to take sales away from actual performance cars) if youaren’t allowed to fully charge it or to use it for performance driving?
If you’re paying $10 for 132 miles…this is vastly different to the assumptions we used above. Once you use more normal numbers (i.e. low 20s for the S6 and sub 200 range for the Tesla) now you’re seeing that $10,000 gap shrink to about $6,000. Hurts the financial case for sure. Add in about $7,000 in average credits from the government and where are we?
$10,000-12,000 more than an S6 for a car that is slower, less nice, brakes worse, maxes out worse, and can’t leave town without puckering your arsehole out of range anxiety.
p.s. anyone notice that they recommend you don’t FULLY charge the tesla, in order to preserve long battery life? What’s with that?
p.s. here’s an interesting comparo. The Audi obliterates the Tesla on the performance tests other than the irrelevant ‘top gear’ tests and street start from 5 mph which favour the instatorque no gearbox Tesla.
TESLA MODEL S
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 12.1 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 21.4 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 4.5 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 1.8 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 2.3 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 104 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 134 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 160 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.91 g
Audi S6
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 3.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 9.2 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 16.1 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 4.9 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 2.1 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 2.6 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.1 sec @ 115 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 155 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 157 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g
The 30-50 and 50-70 are very useful…if you’ve read up Sakimano, for automatics they mash the gas, which in the S6 would trip the kickdown, so it is in a low gear. The Tesla can outroll ANYTHING in these tests. It’s retarded. When you drive one, the feeling is unlike anything I’ve driven. On the highway, that is priceless. You want to squirt into that spot? You’re there. Passing maneuvers around trucks, silver RS4s on the QEW, whatever, is suddenly trivial.
http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/tesla-model-s-drag-racing-energy-usage-and-cost