It just doesn't work: Tesla

General Discussion
#814

X2

It’s funny that if tesla offers a performance tune update its ok to add to the list of performance but if you do ANY performance update to your RS3 its somehow disqualified from the list of examples.

In the end. Ele cars don’t do anything better than ICE cars. They’re still slower then their competitors while still being more expensive.

In the end. It’s preference. If I wanted a 70K Golf cart Tesla is nice. Tesla is not even the fastest electronic car there are faster and soon as more companies make more ele cars the tesla will possibly start to fall behind.

As I have stated from the beginning. The future looks like it will be a mix of ele and ICE powered cars and I thin that’s a good thing for everyone.

#815

Those guys are in Canada - pricing is different there. Charger Hellcat starts at $83,190 Canadian dollars, whereas the Model 3 P starts at $74,990 Canadian dollars. That’s a difference of $8,200.

In the US:

MSRP:

Charger Hellcat: $67,290 including destination charges.
Tesla Model 3P: $55,590. (There aren’t any destination charges on the Tesla)
Difference: $11,700 (21%)

To bring the Hellcat up to Model 3P standards with regards to connectivity, audio and navigation requires adding $4,490 in options, making the final MSRP $71,780, or $16,190 (29%!!!) MORE than the Model 3P.

The Model 3 is actually 21-29% LESS expensive upfront.

It also costs ZERO to maintain and gets 116 mpge, saving over $200/month in fuel/energy costs vs. the Hellcat.

There’s no doubt the Hellcat is faster beyond about 90 mph. So it’s faster in 0.001% of the driving we do in the US.

The Model 3P is faster the other 99.99% of the time.

#816

Sorry again. List prices for the tesla show well more than you quoted.

Cost of all options, wheels, paint, etc is included (apart from Autopilot). Cost is $78k. About same as BMW M3, but 15% quicker & with better handling. Will beat anything in its class on the track.
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) May 20, 2018

And there are destination charges for Tesla… This isn’t even for the 3P a direct quote from KBB-
To reserve a 2019 Tesla Model 3, you’ll need to visit Tesla’s website and place a $2,500 deposit. The fabled 220-mile, $36,000 base Standard Model 3 is experiencing limited availability. What you can buy right now are the $45,200 mid-range rear-wheel-drive version (260 miles), the $52,200 long-range, dual-motor model (310 miles), or the action-packed $63,200 Performance Model 3 (310 miles). All prices include a $1,200 destination fee.

So your only off by about 10k on your Tesla price and the fact there is a destination fee. Prices range more and less but close for each.

That’s a quote from Elon and when you search for ACTUAL prices. Its AGAIN the Tesla is more expensive in some close in others less in some… Each review mentions the ACTUAL price, each search shows the actual price… I can cherry pick discounts and incentives on the Hellcat if you want but if were actually being honest the actual prices start at about the same seems slightly less for the hellcat but only slightly. If you actually look the prices start at 65,200 BEFORE incentives.

And I can get in the more usable hellcat and drive it from coast to coast from as far north as I care to go and as far south as I care to go and have no issues actually DRIVING the car I bought to drive. I can drive it 99.99% more of the time than the Tesla…

And for the 50th time. If you like the Tesla good for you. It isn’t however cheaper or faster than its competitors. It isn’t better or can do things ICE cars can’t. For me It’s just not an interesting car and definitely not worth the hassle of owning an electronic car.

My point was. electronic cars are not doing anything that ICE cars can’t do obviously other than run without gas. They run on coal, or natural gas or another form converted into electricity and THATS FINE… But again for me. I’ll take a 15 year old car put 21st century parts on it and for about 1/4 of the price be faster and still be able to get good mileage if I’m concerned about it…

I actually do appreachate the electronic cars. I have said while I don’t think they are the future I do think they are part of the future. I Actually do apprechate you giving us your feedback and its good to hear your thoughts.

#817

Rather than quoting an obsolete tweet from Elon Musk, how about just going to the manufacturer’s websites to see current pricing, just like I did?

https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#battery

$55,590, just as I wrote. An $1,875 tax incentive applies, making the net price $53,733.

Dodge Hellcat website configurator:

https://www.dodge.com/bmo.charger.2019.html#/build/exterior/60060/CUD201904LDDT48A/2DT/ESD,DFE,TW8,WEB,W8,APA,UAS,CCF,CCE,X9,PRV,23T,3EJ

$68,990 including the Gas Guzzler Tax. A $7,070 incentive applies, making the net price $61,920, before adding the $4,000+ in options to bring the standard equipment in line with the Tesla’s.

So, as I said, the Tesla is less expensive than the Hellcat. $8,187 less with incentives applied, or $12,227 less when equipped similarly.

I don’t know about you, but where I come from saving $8-12K upfront is a lot of money, and saving $3K a year in fuel costs and maintenance is icing on the cake.

Also, regarding the future and gasoline-powered cars, read this:

https://www.financialexpress.com/auto/car-news/daimler-stops-development-of-internal-combustion-engines-complete-focus-on-evs/1711989/

#818

The one gas powered link is just unfounded opinion. I can link you to 10 other sources that show real world how battery powered cars are not only not the future there not even a good idea. So opinions…

Again Actual data from people who bought it show the price as listed.

= Tesla 64,000 Even your best price on the site given is 56,000 but when you actually finance it your paying 69,000. You seem to either be blind or dishonest. The discount you applied to your price was a fake gas savings. The actual price didn’t drop. IF we do take the 56k price its the base price and no issues there. Some of the other invisible price things for the Tesla and I don’t know this to be true I guess you have to pay for an at home charger and get that installed… Again I don’t know that to be true but when looking at hidden costs that and the 56k car ended up being 64k kept popping up…

Again we can play the numbers bust basically as I posted above. Dodge has 0% finance or a 7k incentive. The price points are as mentioned more in some cases less in others. The prices for the cars are better in some cases worse in others for each.

So sorry I know you lost the performance debate as the Tesla isn’t faster from a dead stop or a roll. We have proved that in so many different ways.

One more thing no tesla can’t do and the charger can… even the P1000 can’t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73RV2mA7JBE -

Basically all over you seem to really need what your trying to say to be true. and I’m sorry for you it just isn’t. AGAIN you can enjoy the car… good for you… Not here to rain on any parade. The one main point and only point I kept making is just from the performance aspect. You can’t argue with a few mods getting a charger into the 9s. Even an RS3 into the 9s. That’s impressive to me… Not having a huge I pad in the car… AGAIN not bashing… I’ve driven the car… Just not interesting to me…

#819

I’m finally realizing that you live in your own world, where “truth” is whatever YOU want it to be.

So in your world, $56K is more than $68K, and a STATEMENT made by Mercedes about them discontinuing further development of internal combustion engines so that they can focus on battery electric systems instead is an “opinion”.

SMH. Good luck in life, bub - you’re gonna need it.

#820

The P3D and RS3 are virtually the same exact price. P3D = 58k (less $1800 incentive) with a few proper options added and the RS3 is 61k MSRP, after haggling thats 55k. However, P3D performance is fixed; cant mod it or improve it, which is important to me. Whereas the RS3 can be turned into a 9 sec car.

People cry about warranties being voided etc…I’ve driven my supercharged v8 for 8 years now, before that S4 v8 bolt ons. The car is stout, Audi makes great engines, so there is no worries there. The guy with his TT-RS lost out big only needing a tune to beat the P3D, which is pretty much all he cared about

#821

That’s a good point about the home charger install! 8k for that??? :o

#822

Yeah, no.

$200 to install a 240 volt 50 amp socket in my garage, which is all that’s needed. Charger itself is included in the price of every Tesla.

#823

They arent holding their value at all… https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=525110939&zip=84117&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D84117%26listingTypes%3DUSED%26startYear%3D2014%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceASC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Doff%26endYear%3D2017%26modelCodeList%3DTESMODS%26makeCodeList%3DTESLA%26searchRadius%3D0%26trimCodeList%3DTESMODS%7CP100D&listingTypes=USED&startYear=2014&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2017&modelCodeList=TESMODS&makeCodeList=TESLA&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=TESLA&modelCode1=TESMODS&clickType=listing

2017 P100D listed 85k (160k MSRP) in 2 years…thats worse than Mercedes S-Class. But at the same time you can get a P100D for 80k

#824

This is good first hand info’

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-you-sell-your-Tesla

#825

Even better info:
https://amp.businessinsider.com/tesla-tops-consumer-reports-owner-satisfaction-list-2019-2

#826

LOL you are clearly not very up to dates on development releases from Mercedes… 8 years ago in a statement Mercedes said that by 2020 all their vehicles would be diesel and oddly enough that isn’t true…

ok so you finally realize that the tesla isn’t 53,000 and I know you must have reading issues maybe its all the radiation. But clearly on the Dodge website that YOU linked to the Much faster Charger starts at 62. And you don’t have to pay 8k to install the ability to charge it…

Lets recap just how embarrassingly wrong you’ve been

Tesla is faster than its competitors… WRONG… hell cat is much faster and can be made to be even faster than the mightily P1000

Tesla charges no destination fee… WRONG AGAIN… they charge for that and roll it into the price.

The TESLA is cheaper… this one has been a bit difficult for you so. I have no issues keeping it simple although real world accounts say by the time you get the car your paying over 64k… I’ll give you the 56k price tag that comes in slightly less than the much faster Dodge… You like to ignore common sense things like you don’t have to pay 8k to install anything at home to charge your Dodge but whatever… The RS3 is another one to consider that big just pointed out and that as well requires a bit of a flash update but once updated just like the teslas get a performance flash update. The RS3 dominates so. Overall… Not looking to interesting for the TESLA

#827

[quote=“bigserve134,post:811,topic:7706”]
Nope:

https://youtu.be/9Pu9046wX9g?t=170

Oh, and BTW - The Telsa also beats the RS3 around the track as well.

Don’t get me wrong - the RS3 is a VERY cool car and I thought about getting one at one point, but the small back seat makes it impractical as our family sedan. Then after I drove the Tesla, nothing else mattered.

#828

[quote=“justincredible,post:826,topic:7706”]
Where did you get the idea that it costs $8K to install a Tesla charging setup at home? Mine cost $200 all-in (parts and labor for an electrician), and others have typically paid $200-$800.

[quote=“justincredible,post:826,topic:7706”]
ORLY? LOL!

https://youtu.be/9Pu9046wX9g?t=170

#829

Interesting looking at consumer reports and the two highest rated brands in satisfaction are Tesla and Porsche. Both of which have cultist-like consumers, and in that same report it noted “the Model 3 was reported to have average reliability” and “It previously recommended the Model S sedan, but the vehicle lost that recommendation due to reliability issues”…despite making cars with reliability issues people are still satisfied? ???

Which is proven in resale price of 80K Tesla P100D from 160k 2 years ago!

[quote=“zcd1,post:827,topic:7706”]

The guy in the RS3 reacted slower or P3D guy jumped the gun. TT-RS runs faster 1/4 miles > P3D > RS3

If you are going to modify your car would you still choose a P3D over RS3?

[quote=“zcd1,post:828,topic:7706”]

[quote=“justincredible,post:826,topic:7706”]
Where did you get the idea that it costs $8K to install a Tesla charging setup at home? Mine cost $200 all-in (parts and labor for an electrician), and others have typically paid $200-$800.

You got a great deal, I cant even get a plumber, electrician, landscaper, metal worker to even look at my for (quote) for under $200

#830

[quote=“bigserve134,post:829,topic:7706”]
Again looking at dragtimes.com, 16 of the 19 P3D times listed are quicker than the quickest stock TT-RS, so the data doesn’t support your conclusion.

[quote=“bigserve134,post:829,topic:7706”]
Yes I got a good deal, but it’s still typically less than $800 to install a charging socket.

As I’ve said, for my DD, I’m done with ICE vehicles, so yes, I’d choose the P3D every time.

#831

[quote=“zcd1,post:830,topic:7706”]

[quote=“bigserve134,post:829,topic:7706”]
Again looking at dragtimes.com, 16 of the 19 P3D times listed are quicker than the quickest stock TT-RS, so the data doesn’t support your conclusion.

So if you get your ass handed to you by a bolt-on tuned TT-RS/RS3 running 9s you would care a bit?

#832

[quote=“bigserve134,post:831,topic:7706”]
There’s ALWAYS somebody/something faster, regardless of what you drive, and there’s a lot more to what makes a good daily driver than straight line speed, so no, I wouldn’t care at all.

This car is the total package - comfortable and quiet when I want it to be, with killer audio and outstanding handling, but able to pin its ears back and explode into the distance with zero prep whenever I want. I enjoy it more than any car I’ve previously owned.

#833

[quote=“zcd1,post:832,topic:7706”]

Have you tested a P100D?

Of course there will be always something out there faster but the chances of someone shitting on a relaible 9 sec car is like 0.000001%…you’re talking about UR racing lambos, built american muscle cars, built GT-Rs nothing that i’ve ever run into in my area. London, Dubai, southern Cali then maybe 0.0001%