We don’t think your trolling…but understand your lack of rebuttal or ability to try and make a better point. It’s just what happens when the point you want to make won’t stand up to counter points.
So facts = trolling ???
In the real world (not Mexico) and in real, street conditions there are few new cars that can hang with the Model 3 from a dig up to about 120 mph.
The other thing to remember is that even though the standard has always been “time to speed” (0-60mph, 0-100 mph, etc.) in the real world it’s time to distance that determines the winner of a race. Electric cars get from stopped to a given distance quicker than people who haven’t driven one think. Ask the guy who called me out at the drag strip in his modded F10 M5. He went through the traps almost 10 mph faster than I did, but did so more than half a second LATE!
I don’t understand why people insist on comparing modified cars with unmodified ones. It’s pointless.
I could just as easily say “Oh yeah?!?! Well, a $5K Camaro with $3K in mods will demolish any new car short of a Chiron or Regera!1!1!1ELEVENTY!!”
Utterly pointless, and makes the person making the comparison look a bit desperate, tbh…
Your comparing the ability of one car to another. That’s what is happening. Its only “pointless” because it makes the point that the Tesla is so good pointless when you actually compare it to what other cars can do.
And thank you. You again just made the point we have been making. If I want to be faster than a 57k tesla I can go by a 5k comaro and spend 3k in mods. THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT. ICE motors have HUGE ability if you want to modify it. The TESLA… not so much.
SO in calling it utterly pointless you reinforced the point. And in doing so exposed that only a desperate individual that is trying to prop up the tesla would not have an argument about a cars potential and not include working examples of the other cars potential.
If I wanted to drive a car that couldn’t be modified or if I was someone that didn’t have mechanical ability perhaps a tesla would be interesting. But I do have the abilty to mechanically work on cars and in doing so can make almost any car faster than a tesla. SO with that the tesla is not only not impressive its just not interesting.
MY original point was that top-spec Teslas are quicker than their NEW ICE competitors. That is a fact, not an opinion.
You can flail about all you want about modified cars - that was never part of my discussion - it was your (and others’) attempt to “prop up” ICE cars and misses the point completely.
For a new car with a warranty the Model 3P is the quickest sedan available for the $$$.
RS3 same performance and price as P3D…then after a few years you tune / modify it and shit on the P3D, which is not tunable
Nice try.
Quickest stock RS3 1/4 mile on dragtimes.com is 4 tenths behind the quickest Model 3P and there are 19 Model 3P times quicker than that single RS3.
Car and Driver measured 3.4 seconds 30-70 mph for the Model 3P.
RS3 took 6.0 seconds for that same interval.
Ok well the top teslas are not quicker than their ICE competitors
The 2018 dodge demon is a 9 second car and there goes that argument. That’s about 20k less than the tesla. . That beats both the top P1000 car and the model 3P that goes up to about 100+ K so / Thread
OH SEDAN you say. WELL you just got owned again.
The 2019 Dodge charger - 11.4 seconds with a final velocity of 128 mph. Dodge says the supersedan tops out at 204 mph
I think its the 2018 Model P3 performance 11.8 seconds at 113.7 and only a top speed of 161
SO AGAIN… NO the tesla isn’t the fastest car for the money or even the fastest car or well… We can keep going on and on and on…
Is it a car you enjoy… sounds like it… As I said I drove one… its fucking boring and just not interesting to me. It’s not as fast as several cars I’ve owned and If I was going to dump out that much money and I had to get a new car. I would totally buy a Dodge first and I am not a fan of Dodge. Compared to the tesla its a FKN blast to drive. To sit in and to use as a day to day…
AND THOSE ARE THE FACTS… They didn’t stack up to what you said.
Oh and just to be fair. I used road and track and car and driver reviews. Independent test firms. If I used just any testing done by any random individual it would have looked much worse for the tesla.
[quote=“justincredible,post:808,topic:7706”]
In the real world, this is what happens when a Hellcat takes on a Tesla Model3 in a drag race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFiw3_uXyyQ
Also, the Model 3P is $10-15K less expensive than the Hellcat.
TTRS uses the same engine as the RS3 but is lighter and therefore quicker. Here’s how one does against a Model 3P:
They are virtually identical at 4500 ft altitude SLC Utah, sea level the TT-RS wins. Sea level RS3 virtually identical to P3D. P3D slightly quicker to 60; its funny how you can see ever shift change in that video even on a lightning quick DSG, whereas the electrical is constant.
For what you get, I’d still get the RS3 all day over a P3D. Looks 100 times better, sounds infinitely better, much nicer interior, color options, tun-ability etc. P3D is like an apple iCar with the sheep cultish following, car is astonishingly ugly compared to the model S, not even looking like a sports car blending in with the other model 3s.
[quote=“bigserve134,post:811,topic:7706”]
The TTRS owner just picked up his new Model 3 Performance. Here are his comments:
=======
[i]"After two F80’s, Hellcat, GT350, TTRS among a few others. I am moving to a Model 3 Performance.
Picking up my white on white M3P this Saturday. With the strong regen braking, instant acceleration, low center of gravity and tight handling. One of the best car’s I’ve driven on the street and I am excited to experience daily. Yes, there is no sound but it more than makes up for it in overall performance.
After I raced my TTRS vs this Model 3 Performance… my decision was made. I have never really lost to anything on the street in 2 years. This thing not only took me from a dig, but decimated me from a roll. This was with him being the heavier driver by 100+ pounds and having heavy, super wide wheels/rubber."
" I had a 2018 TTRS (faster than an RS3). My TTRS was a monster even in Bone stock form. I was running 3.5 second 0-60s on 91 oct and 6000-7000DA via Dragy. Factory freak?!
My 2018 TTRS was neck and neck from various rolls with a friends 2018 F80 DCT/ZCP with full Remus exhaust (minus DPs), 80lb lighter driver, M4 GTS DCT tune.
I had a 2017 stock GT-R (570HP) pull me by *half a FENDER from 60-115 and half a car from 40-120. I pulled a BUS length on my very own GT350 from a short 40-100 pull. Thing was no joke. People have been getting 11.6-11.8s @117-119MPH traps at sea level.
My point? watch the video I posted above of a model 3 gapping me from a dig AND roll. I was in the right gear for every pull (he did NOT jump), but the split second turbo lag cannot overcome the instantaneous hit of the M3P. He was also 100lbs heavier than me and had heavy aftermarket wheels and really wide staggered tires. Which he admittedly said it slowed him down a few tenths 0-60, 1/4 mile, etc. via Dragy testing."
"…I don’t know about random stories or videos with no context to what exactly occurred. In my experience and speaking with all the owners of the cars I ran against. The results were the Tesla pulling up to 115+ and I was no where near catching up.
The 20 and 40 rolls are the Teslas sweet spots. The 60 rolls are it’s big weakness. It’s very hard to line up a 60 roll where I live anyway. So I personally don’t care about those. Maybe in your area of Mexico you can do 60-130 rolls
Sure, I can mod to make crazy power. Then I lose my warranty and peace of mind. It’s $30K to replace the 5 cyl engine. Not to mention the Model 3P does those 3.2 sec 0-60’s on demand. NO launch control required, just stab the throttle. I had to engage my LC and that puts massive strain on the drivetrain, heatsoak, inconvenience, etc.
The Tesla can do this all day long (as long as you have charge). After those runs, he was still at 90+% charge and battery still not overheated. My Audi was already badly heatsoaked after 3 LC dig runs and 3 roll on pulls up to 115+.
Maybe if you live at the drag strip, these crazy modded cars running E85, drag tires, etc can beat it…In the real world the Model 3 only gets pulled on after 110-120MPH in my experience."
"Picked up my new Model 3 Performance. I am in love with thing. I’ve daily driven a Hellcat, GT350, TTRS, Modded F80, etc and this thing makes those feel like tractors. I don’t know what people coming from Priuses and Civics must think
In “chill” mode the cars got more pull than 90% of cars on the road.
The steering is so satisfying and the suspension is super smooth and compliant. Not to mention no lean or body roll with the low center of gravity…"[/i]
Yeah, that Model 3 ain’t got nuthin’ to offer… ;D
[quote=“zcd1,post:809,topic:7706”]
AND as usual your wrong again.
IN YOUR OWN SHOWN video the says the helcat and the Performance tesla are “about the same price” So again you’re wrong
On top of that. The independent testing of two reputable test outlets say your wrong. And that the Tesla is slower.
But if we’re cherry picking races. I can show tons of races where the testlas get stomped
Like this
https://youtu.be/oVsLmAVqvoE?t=1m3s
In the end with actual independent testing of the cars actual performance. The Tesla is more expensive and slower. / thread.
X2
It’s funny that if tesla offers a performance tune update its ok to add to the list of performance but if you do ANY performance update to your RS3 its somehow disqualified from the list of examples.
In the end. Ele cars don’t do anything better than ICE cars. They’re still slower then their competitors while still being more expensive.
In the end. It’s preference. If I wanted a 70K Golf cart Tesla is nice. Tesla is not even the fastest electronic car there are faster and soon as more companies make more ele cars the tesla will possibly start to fall behind.
As I have stated from the beginning. The future looks like it will be a mix of ele and ICE powered cars and I thin that’s a good thing for everyone.
Those guys are in Canada - pricing is different there. Charger Hellcat starts at $83,190 Canadian dollars, whereas the Model 3 P starts at $74,990 Canadian dollars. That’s a difference of $8,200.
In the US:
MSRP:
Charger Hellcat: $67,290 including destination charges.
Tesla Model 3P: $55,590. (There aren’t any destination charges on the Tesla)
Difference: $11,700 (21%)
To bring the Hellcat up to Model 3P standards with regards to connectivity, audio and navigation requires adding $4,490 in options, making the final MSRP $71,780, or $16,190 (29%!!!) MORE than the Model 3P.
The Model 3 is actually 21-29% LESS expensive upfront.
It also costs ZERO to maintain and gets 116 mpge, saving over $200/month in fuel/energy costs vs. the Hellcat.
There’s no doubt the Hellcat is faster beyond about 90 mph. So it’s faster in 0.001% of the driving we do in the US.
The Model 3P is faster the other 99.99% of the time.
Sorry again. List prices for the tesla show well more than you quoted.
Cost of all options, wheels, paint, etc is included (apart from Autopilot). Cost is $78k. About same as BMW M3, but 15% quicker & with better handling. Will beat anything in its class on the track.
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) May 20, 2018
And there are destination charges for Tesla… This isn’t even for the 3P a direct quote from KBB-
To reserve a 2019 Tesla Model 3, you’ll need to visit Tesla’s website and place a $2,500 deposit. The fabled 220-mile, $36,000 base Standard Model 3 is experiencing limited availability. What you can buy right now are the $45,200 mid-range rear-wheel-drive version (260 miles), the $52,200 long-range, dual-motor model (310 miles), or the action-packed $63,200 Performance Model 3 (310 miles). All prices include a $1,200 destination fee.
So your only off by about 10k on your Tesla price and the fact there is a destination fee. Prices range more and less but close for each.
That’s a quote from Elon and when you search for ACTUAL prices. Its AGAIN the Tesla is more expensive in some close in others less in some… Each review mentions the ACTUAL price, each search shows the actual price… I can cherry pick discounts and incentives on the Hellcat if you want but if were actually being honest the actual prices start at about the same seems slightly less for the hellcat but only slightly. If you actually look the prices start at 65,200 BEFORE incentives.
And I can get in the more usable hellcat and drive it from coast to coast from as far north as I care to go and as far south as I care to go and have no issues actually DRIVING the car I bought to drive. I can drive it 99.99% more of the time than the Tesla…
And for the 50th time. If you like the Tesla good for you. It isn’t however cheaper or faster than its competitors. It isn’t better or can do things ICE cars can’t. For me It’s just not an interesting car and definitely not worth the hassle of owning an electronic car.
My point was. electronic cars are not doing anything that ICE cars can’t do obviously other than run without gas. They run on coal, or natural gas or another form converted into electricity and THATS FINE… But again for me. I’ll take a 15 year old car put 21st century parts on it and for about 1/4 of the price be faster and still be able to get good mileage if I’m concerned about it…
I actually do appreachate the electronic cars. I have said while I don’t think they are the future I do think they are part of the future. I Actually do apprechate you giving us your feedback and its good to hear your thoughts.
Rather than quoting an obsolete tweet from Elon Musk, how about just going to the manufacturer’s websites to see current pricing, just like I did?
https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#battery
$55,590, just as I wrote. An $1,875 tax incentive applies, making the net price $53,733.
Dodge Hellcat website configurator:
$68,990 including the Gas Guzzler Tax. A $7,070 incentive applies, making the net price $61,920, before adding the $4,000+ in options to bring the standard equipment in line with the Tesla’s.
So, as I said, the Tesla is less expensive than the Hellcat. $8,187 less with incentives applied, or $12,227 less when equipped similarly.
I don’t know about you, but where I come from saving $8-12K upfront is a lot of money, and saving $3K a year in fuel costs and maintenance is icing on the cake.
Also, regarding the future and gasoline-powered cars, read this:
The one gas powered link is just unfounded opinion. I can link you to 10 other sources that show real world how battery powered cars are not only not the future there not even a good idea. So opinions…
Again Actual data from people who bought it show the price as listed.
= Tesla 64,000 Even your best price on the site given is 56,000 but when you actually finance it your paying 69,000. You seem to either be blind or dishonest. The discount you applied to your price was a fake gas savings. The actual price didn’t drop. IF we do take the 56k price its the base price and no issues there. Some of the other invisible price things for the Tesla and I don’t know this to be true I guess you have to pay for an at home charger and get that installed… Again I don’t know that to be true but when looking at hidden costs that and the 56k car ended up being 64k kept popping up…
Again we can play the numbers bust basically as I posted above. Dodge has 0% finance or a 7k incentive. The price points are as mentioned more in some cases less in others. The prices for the cars are better in some cases worse in others for each.
So sorry I know you lost the performance debate as the Tesla isn’t faster from a dead stop or a roll. We have proved that in so many different ways.
One more thing no tesla can’t do and the charger can… even the P1000 can’t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73RV2mA7JBE -
Basically all over you seem to really need what your trying to say to be true. and I’m sorry for you it just isn’t. AGAIN you can enjoy the car… good for you… Not here to rain on any parade. The one main point and only point I kept making is just from the performance aspect. You can’t argue with a few mods getting a charger into the 9s. Even an RS3 into the 9s. That’s impressive to me… Not having a huge I pad in the car… AGAIN not bashing… I’ve driven the car… Just not interesting to me…
I’m finally realizing that you live in your own world, where “truth” is whatever YOU want it to be.
So in your world, $56K is more than $68K, and a STATEMENT made by Mercedes about them discontinuing further development of internal combustion engines so that they can focus on battery electric systems instead is an “opinion”.
SMH. Good luck in life, bub - you’re gonna need it.
The P3D and RS3 are virtually the same exact price. P3D = 58k (less $1800 incentive) with a few proper options added and the RS3 is 61k MSRP, after haggling thats 55k. However, P3D performance is fixed; cant mod it or improve it, which is important to me. Whereas the RS3 can be turned into a 9 sec car.
People cry about warranties being voided etc…I’ve driven my supercharged v8 for 8 years now, before that S4 v8 bolt ons. The car is stout, Audi makes great engines, so there is no worries there. The guy with his TT-RS lost out big only needing a tune to beat the P3D, which is pretty much all he cared about