Just because you say it doesn’t make it a fact. They’ve sold jack fucking shit. They’ve sold vapour ware and 400 000 people were dumb enough to lend them $400 million for free.
You sound like an Android fan on a mission to prove Apple is insignificant.
It seems you think Tesla is something completely different than a car, manufactured by a car company; that various things like data estimates and depreciation profiles don’t apply.
Tesla Car Company makes Tesla cars. They’re already showing the usual car depreciation profiles that cars show.
You’re saying a Tesla is gonna get 0.3 kwh per mile and that’s not gonna vary user to user. Bullshit. It’s a car. Depending on how and where you use it, your results will vary. Same as other cars. I learned this first hand from a Tesla owner. His results vary depending on where and when he uses it. I asked him point blank for the purpose of writing it on this thread - is there a difference in range from winter to summer (here in Southern Ontario where the temperature swings considerably winter to summer) and his response was an enthusiastic “oh fuck yeah!”
So much for your nickel thing.
Every time you again equate a $1000 deposit on a Tesla to a fully assembled and paid for Audi, you sound like that much more of an idiot on this thread.
That parallel makes no sense. Apple is the largest company in the world by market cap, and sells a fuckton of phones . They’re the number 1 or 2 most important phone maker, depending how you look at the numbers. If someone were arguing they were insignificant, they’d be retarded.
If someone were arguing that Tesla’s whole model doesn’t work, they’d be someone who simply looked at the facts.
Shitty business case, losing a fortune for at least another decade in all likelihood
Shitty environmental profile despite selling themselves as ‘clean’ to morons like you who believe it
Shitty plan to fund the company’s epic negative cash burn with either stock sales or ponzi schemes (selling a car that doesn’t yet exist and getting 400,000 morons to lend them 400 million dollars for the next 3 years…and using that money to pay the bills on the massive capital bleed that the company is seeing each quarter)
On top of this, the cars aren’t that good, they’re expensive as hell, and taxpayers subsidize the shit out of both the company and the buyers of these $130,000 luxury cars.
The entire thing is moronic.
The good news is that the Germans and Japanese are bringing full electric vehicles to the market for fair prices in the next 18 months. They will surely rape Tesla’s sales ‘projected’ sales party, and see the evaporation of many of those ‘deposits’ for the 3 and X when people realise they can get an $80,000 eQ7 instead of a $120,000 Model X (which is frankly the ugliest vehicle on the road).
This will push Tesla’s profitability off another decade, and by then, fuel cell will be the real deal for alternative eco-warriers.
When someone compares hydrogen to lithium and nickel batteries…the environmentalists will portray Tesla as the dinosaur enviro-rapist.
Will be fun to watch.
West will only drive his Tesla in favorable weather, downhill, with the mirrors folded in to prove his point…so watch out.
That is if he doesn’t fit all the seats and cage it out to install a wind turbine out the roof to meet the bullshit facts on kW usage he has spewed.
When you put it like that, Tesla is a genius company for getting all that money!
There’s an element of genius in being able to swindle people. No ponzi schemer has ever been without his or her charms.
Of course you need very gullible people. Fortunately the segment of the population who think they’re saving the dolphins by driving a coal fired electric car that rapes south america and northern ontario to make the battery are dumb enough to lend the money for free thanks to altruistic ignorance.
The deposits are a liability on Tesla’s balance sheet. They don’t have any cash flow issues, and they have over a billion in cash on the balance sheet already. The deposits just enable them to go back to the credit market and borrow to the build the cars. Specifically, they will be able to issue convertible bonds which the stockholders will absorb (typically dilutive) because the whole pie is getting bigger.
Sakimono doesn’t understand the tradeoff between profitability and growth. If you post profits when you’re pre-scale, you can’t grow fast enough. Some people don’t have the stomach for a cash burning unicorn. For them, there are risk free investments like US AAA corporate bonds. You can lend Ford money for 30 years at 4% if you want some return on your money. Not sure where they will be in 30 years, honestly. It’s familiar but it assumes they can adopt the successful parts of Tesla distribution/dealers, adapt to changing consumer tastes, launch self driving cars, figure out vehicle infotainment, figure out remote software updates.
I would like to know exactly how Sakimono would build a sustainable car company from 0 cars to 500,000 cars in 10 years while posting a profit every quarter. Perhaps you can teach an online class on Udacity. Would love to understand the psychology of an investor like you.
Can we start another thread to talk about the clusterfuck in oil markets? Too much to cover here.
It’s going to be a bloodbath when the Model 3 crushes the BMW 328, the Audi A4, the C300. Might send Germany into a recession.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160419/9b18d50d16a9c198f057cb9c01c5e259.jpg
From the same article you lifted that from, actually right after that chart, they’d written this:
“Of course, luxury sedans are just one small portion of the luxury car market (and a portion that’s shrinking). And Tesla still has a miniscule share of the 17.5 million cars sold in the U.S. last year.”
The brutal part is, it’s not like those sales guys can just move to the Tesla dealership. They’re going to lose over $400,000,000 in commissions. That’s personal income from real people. The shift is real.
The only good news is that your continued bullshit and moronic guesses purported as facts are influencing your member rating. The more you post, the more it drops.
I’ll just ask the moderator to reset it. Karma is not a disagreement resolution protocol. I’ve been nothing but civil and present my evidence and state my position.
You’ve called me a moron mostly, and a lot worse. I have no inclination to research your personal life, but if I had to guess you had children too early and that took you out of the racing game. You drive a classic Audi but you have a million opinions on the new ones with no real world experience to back it up.
I might still buy another Audi before Tesla can deliver. But I’m willing to take the other side of the (previously) friendly argument. It’s more fun to have a debate than a Canadian monoculture of drag racing 10 year old cars and obsessing over milliseconds.
And the moderator will tell you to pound sand.
Actually, it kind of is. Your member rating reflects how AR members, on the whole, view your contributions here. At -5, you’re under water. And that is due in no small part to the amount of gobsmackingly asinine statements you have made in this thread, including your bizarre equation of San Francisco with the rest of North America.
This is also among your greatest hits:
If this thread has proven anything, it’s that you lack the most basic of reading comprehension skills. It truly is remarkable how oblivious you are to reality.
I don’t claim to know how you’ve set up your website or your rating system. You have contributors, readers, and bullies. Bullies dissuade weak minded contributors. Bullies prevent readers from becoming contributors. Your rating system allows bullies to have high scores. Someone who deviates from Known Truths gets a negative rating.
Maybe my delivery isn’t perfect and I generalize. No one here would say I have a bad intent. I have some record results, and some driver development skills I need to work on. I’m optimistic about my coming decades as a driver, and about big changes happening in the auto industry.
Really nobody deserves the way Sakimono treats people. I have a strong constitution and I’m not afraid to disagree with him publicly. Because of his behavior, many others will not engage. He’s a diminisher. He steps way outside of his subforums. He knows no boundaries. And he’s the reason this site is very niche. Maybe we like it niche. I’d like other readers to post more if he could just STFU. I’ll give him a plus plus karma to underscore the absurdity of the system.
Now you’re making it sound like all he does is bash people. Good Grief.
You seem to have developed a concern for the rating system, and perhaps yours in particular.
If this is the case, for the sake of your rating, STFU about Tesla. Doesn’t matter if you’re right or wrong.
This is not my website. It is owned and operated by the very generous God. I only help moderate, and I have no ability to adjust member ratings other than the applaud/smite options available to everyone.
If I’ve violated the terms of service or I’m showing displays of unsportsmanlike conduct, then someone should issue me a warning or a PM. None of this passive aggressive anonymous demerits disguised as a unifying points system for universal balance.
In this thread, the only person who has been a troll and a monster is Sakimono. He can shit on innovative car companies all he wants, and I’ll calmly explain what other people see that he’s not seeing. I won’t even call him a blind moron. You don’t have to agree with it. You don’t have to say I’m right. I’m not even trying to be right, I’m just offering a counterpoint widely held in a small part of the world that I have access to.
BTW Tesla said the real world fleet average is 0.3 kWh per mile. They have the data.
In case you’re genuinely mistaken, I’d like to point out that his username is SakimAno
You think I was doubting the fleet average figure? I wasn’t. My car has one as well. An average mileage figure. You’re off thinking a Tesla isn’t a car again.
What I was saying is the guy who floors it in the winter in Canada (the owner I met) gets worse range than the fleet average. So fuck the fleet average. Individual results will vary.
Let me put it to you this way. Suppose my friend contacts Tesla complaining about how his range is shit compared to the fleet average, and therefore what the fuck is wrong with his Tesla, as he floors it around town in the frigid Canadian winter.
You tell me - what shall Tesla’s reply be to his query about his range being shit?
Actually I’ll tell you. Their reply will be “fuck the fleet average, individual results will vary”
It just means half the cars do better and half of the cars do worse, nothing more. Again, given that a full charge costs less than a #2 at McDonalds I don’t think anyone is sweating the economy at 110 MPGe vs 85 MPGe. The smart grid can charge the cars when the power plants are spinning off excess capacity into thin air.
Let’s say I needed to drive to LA. It’s 450 miles. The Boxster can do it on one tank because it’s a 2.7 with PDK and gets about 33 MPG at 80 MPH. The problem is my house isn’t a gas station so I don’t leave the house full. I stop somewhere for gas, pay $50, and continue my journey 10 minutes later. Of course I’ll pay the $50 again on the way home.
With the Tesla I always leave the house full and stop for 20 minutes to top off 150 miles but it’s free. If I don’t want to drive a straight desert road I just set the autopilot and fire up Tapatalk, so I can troll some car forum full of earnest people that can’t see around the corner.