Actually, that would be the median. The average is simply the sum of all the data points divided by the number of data points.
Anyway, back to my popcorn.
I thought the luxo brands were hemorrhaging sales to SUVs? Like the Q5 has been a runaway success for Audi and I’m sure Q5 sales have cannibalised sales from A4 and A6 sized sedans.
Ya lol.
http://audirevolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=3294.0
Saki made a hell of a good point before; Audi sells 10% of their cars in America. So why are we looking at a “US Sales of Large Luxury Vehicles” stat and not a “Global Sales of Large Luxury Vehicles?”
What are the Global 2015 sales of Tesla Model S? The A6? A7? A8?
One other thing; fairly insignificant but is the 7,721 A7 sold in 2015 actually just A7 or also S7 RS7? Perhaps there are a couple thousand more cars out there if that stat doesn’t count S7 RS7. S8 too.
actually that would be the median
in any event, stop arguing money for tesla. Everytime you do, you look dumber.
the government subsidizes the company
the government then subsidizes the buyers
despite this they still cost about $30,000-50,000 more than the competition
There’s NEVER a money case to be made for Tesla, and anyone who tries to rave about saving $20 a week on fuel is a myopic moron. Are you a myopic moron?
http://www.perilousways.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/whyMrMagooNeverMarried.jpg
Fuel economy is not like income. It’s a normal distribution. The median and the average are going to overlap. Thanks for the pedantic points but the 5th percentage usage is going to be as far from the median as the 95th percentile usage.
The US government is never going to change so let’s stop talking about it. They bail out automakers. They create tax incentives for industries. They hold gasoline tax at $0.18 instead of a percentage. They bail out auto finance companies so every American can get credit for a new car. Most of the tax incentives you are ranting about expire, and they’re not even exclusive to Tesla. The government has a vested interest in 5-10% of the non-commercial vehicle fleet running on alternative fuel. Diversity of fuel sources flattens risk. The constitution even says “promote general welfare”, so it’s well within their charter.
Deducting a one time tax credit on a car is the same as deducting mortgage interest. Or your children. Or whatever else you’re into. You still pay sales tax on the car, so to the consumer it’s almost like a tax rebate or tax neutral affair.
I don’t understand the environmental argument. A Tesla battery is about 600 pounds of aluminum oxide, nickel, lithium and cobalt (plus packaging and cooling channels). 100% of it is recyclable and the metals can be used at the end for any other industrial use. Can you explain how pumping 1000 barrels of oil for a car is less “earth rape” than an aluminum mine in Colorado or whatever. Make sure you factor in how we get oil today, e.g. hydrofracking.
So their mining equipment is also fossil fuel free?
100% of the battery is recyclable? You’re making shit up again and that why people are annoyed with your bullshit.
Nickel and Cobalt mining have a higher impact on the environment than most materials. I’ll also stick with fracking and oil fields in the US before we ever start mining shit like Lithium for your environmentally friendly Tesla.
You’d have a better stance of you recognized some of the drawbacks with the company, but you are acting like a blind moron and refusing to look at actual facts. You and the 400k other people, which I’ll bet maybe a quarter of that will actually buy the Model 3…if it actually happens.
It’s called closed loop recycling. You extract every metal, and you can either landfill or recycle the remaining plastic mix.
To be clear, a Tesla contains plastic which is made from oil. They use diesel transport vehicles. It’s not a 0 carbon company and nobody cares or expects them to be?
[quote]arge industrial batteries, like batteries from hybrid and full electric cars, are first dismantled in a dedicated dismantling line. Umicore operates one dismantling line in Hanau (Germany) and another one Maxton, NC (USA). The smelting operations are performed in Hoboken (Belgium).
Output products of the smelting process:
Metal fraction: Alloy containing all Ni, Co and other valuable metals. These metals, can be further refined in Umicore’s plant in Olen (Belgium) and later transformed into Ni(OH)2 and LiMeO2 (Me: Co, Ni, Mn) as active cathode materials for new batteries. In that way, Umicore closes the loop “from battery to battery”.
Slag fraction. The slag from Li-ion batteries is completely inert and non-hazardous and can be used as construction materials. When processing NiMH batteries, the REE contained in the batteries are collected in the slag fraction. They can be further refined to produce pure REE oxides.
Gas emissions: the gas cleaning installation ensures that no harmful dioxins or volatile organic compounds (VOCs) are produced. It also collects all possible dust carry over.
[/quote]
You’d be the only analyst forecasting a 25% follow through rate on Tesla pre-orders. Believe it or not, there are many people who can afford a $35k BMW, Mercedes or Audi but don’t want to be perceived that way. They think it’s gaudy, narcissistic, obnoxious or showy. They buy a loaded $32k Prius.
The category of people who won’t pre-order a prototype car is enough to fill any abandoned orders. Tesla will sell 500,000 total vehicles in 2018, 2 years ahead of schedule.
Is this your way of ignoring the facts?
You’re arguing for the fuel efficiency financials of a $150,000 luxury car that isn’t so luxirious, and breaks down with an alacrity that makes the other American brands look like Lexus.
I told you it make you look myopic and foolish, and you continue to argue it.
The first post in the thread was simple. Your offtopic ‘feels’ are irrelevant.
- they’re too expensive for what they are
- the government subsidizes the hell out of them
- the government subsidizes the hell out of the buyers
- the cars aren’t that great
- the cars aren’t that environmentally friendly (about 10-20% better in a nuclear or clean energy region, and about the same as gasoline vehicles in a more typical american region)
So the title stands…it just doesn’t work.
You can lie all you want. Some westwestmagoo lies from this thread, paraphrased
- you can fuel it for free!
- it’s environmentally 0 impact!
- the used ones will appreciate 25% over the next 7 years!
- Tesla will sell 1.5 million cars in 5 years!
etc.
Focus on facts, not feels.
If you think it’s cool that California is producing some expensive, overpriced, government subsidized cars that are admittedly hella quick if you get the big battery, that’s great. Doesn’t change the facts though. So stick to the facts or GTFO.
The truth is the model 3 will go into production probably in 2018-2019, and they will produce about 30,000 cars a year. If the followup buy rate is 25%, or 100,000 cars, that will take 3-4 years to fill those orders. West acts like they produced, sold and delivered 400,000 cars last week. He’s delusional. I can’t wait to see real pricing for an AWD, leather seated, luxury Model 3 with 300 miles of range. I’m betting we’ll be looking at around $85,000.
If that happens, by the year 2022, Tesla will be selling about 100,000-125,000 cars a year worldwide. Which is great compared to zero, but compared to ‘they will sell 1.5 million cars a year in 5 years!’ it’s abysmal.
It also means they’re still only at 10% of the big guys. All ifs of course. Who knows what happens.
One thing nobody talks about is the process of harvesting lithium is going to run into a roadblock before too long…it’s not just used for making cars. When Chile Bolivia and Argentina tell Tesla they want 50x the current market price for their demand it will be interesting. Same goes for apple and samsung and everyone. Those three countries control 70% of the global lithium supply, and much of it is in environmentally sensitive areas.
They are already on track to hit 100,000 annual Model S and Model X sales with the current production lines. The Model 3 will be in addition to that, and they will build in excess of 200,000 Model 3 alone in Calendar Year 2018. They have empty factory floors next door in Fremont.
If you are a “rich person” you will get your Model 3 at the end of 2017, which is 20 months from now. Plenty of time for a first production run.
You underestimate what a good recruiting tool for Tesla this is. People want the cars, and engineers want to work at a place where their work matters (and ideally where they get rich). It will happen. They will deliver.
A 25% follow through rate is insulting and unrealistic. We’re talking about capturing 1% of US vehicle sales and you guys act like we’re in a horrible depression where no one can afford a car payment. The average US vehicle sales price is $31k – and this one is $4k more but doesn’t require gas and could have a tax incentive.
The A4 is $51k with the computer dashboard. The S4 will be $55k-$59k to start. The RS4 and the M3 and the C63 are all $80k. I don’t think a Model 3 P70D will have to be that expenive, but a lot cars are clearing at that price.
The AWD Model 3 will start under $39k.
that’s funny as fuck. You should preface your bold feel based predictions with ‘I think’. because stating
Tesla will sell 500,000 total vehicles in 2018’ is ridiculous when everyone on the planet knows they don’t even have the capacity, nor will the model 3 even be in production in 2017.
The other bogey you keep making is that you’re forgetting the model 3 base won’t be sold till LONG after they have established sales of the big money versions. Look at the model X for a guide on how they plan this. The Model X was ONLY available as a P90D for the first wave of buyers.
Peopel dreaming about picking up a $35,000 model 3 on September 1st 2017 are off their rocker.
I thought I’d note why I showed up on this thread - after the first time I met up with the Tesla guy I know, I thought hmm… blazing acceleration, decent looks, prestige, free to fill up, AMAZING centre console radio/stereo/web surfing/rear camera/sat nav thing…hmm…maybe I want one of these Teslas.
So I came here and got reading…nope!
The only reason you shouldn’t get a Model 3 is they’re going to be so commonplace. More popular than the 3 series, C class and A4 combined.
You have an issue with baselines. You keep cherry-picking an optioned-out A4 with a base Model 3 - we’ve told you this before, but you keep making the same mistake.
A front wheel drive A4 with a caveman dash is a non starter. A premium plus quattro with tech package is NOT loaded. It’s $46,025.
A Model X 90D with the premium cabin and autopilot is $95k net of tax incentive; a stock model is $73k, the family special for kids who ruin nice stuff. They took 30,000 pre-orders for them as of 6 months ago.
I’m… You realise that 400,000 deposits doesn’t mean 400,000 sold every year lol.
My goodness it’s fun watching you inch your way to a vacation because you’re moronic. NOTHING you post is well thought out.
You do realize Model 3 is a platform and they can make it into a wagon, a small SUV, a GT coupe, etc.? Since you only understand rearward looking measures, number of pre-orders has been a strong indicator of future annual sales projection. Unlike Audi, it won’t take Tesla 44 months to release a lifecycle refresh. Whenever consumers forget about Tesla, they announce some amazing new thing, the news cycle picks up, and customers order cars.
You do realize they have spent $0 on marketing. $0 on sales commissions. These are levers they can eventually pull.
This is actually good for us Audi people. I want Audi to include the tech package and assisted driving tech as standard, and for the car to get cheaper. I want them to make an RS4 with a hybrid system like the 918 Spyder. I don’t want the same lockstep German manufacturer bullshit of BMW MB Audi copying each other every 9 years, with a horseshit nav update at the midpoint.
I don’t think it’s a lot to ask that Germany compete with California. Instead they are going full retard. BMW just kicked Apple CarPlay to the curb because of privacy reasons. As if 100% of BMW drivers don’t already have a fucking phone with google maps in their pocket snooping them in the background anyway.
How about you guys wager some cash on the outcome and stop bickering like menstruating females? ;D
Meanwhile the car that is fundamentally much simpler than all ICE cars has problems again
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/apr/21/tesla-model-x-glitches-lock-owners-out-of-cars-suv