It just doesn't work: Tesla

Go fuck yourself. It’s a car successful in California that addresses the local problems and is built by local people. You are clueless as an analyst and every post you make sounds like it was written by a high schooler. I don’t think we have a lot in common bruh!

Here’s a good article from today about Tesla’s capital structure and a secondary equity offering. It might offer clarity where sakimano is not thinking clearly, that is to say he’s emotional.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-13/tesla-files-to-sell-2-1-million-shares-to-raise-500-million

You could literally tell west over and over again the simple fact that Tesla is not, and has never been, an economically viable company - and he would still post non-responsive responses.

Pretty funny actually.

How long does it take for heavy industry to reach break even? Before that, how long does it take to reach scale? Do you think that Tesla could do it faster but they haven’t because of a management or product problem? It’s hard to benchmark since a new car company hasn’t happened in the US in the better part of a century, and most upstart foreign heavy industry is truly state run and operated (especially in asia, india, south america). From the outside, it looks like they’re doing it quite fast to me and with minimal assistance.

The plan is pretty clear - they have to grow to a scale of 500,000 cars a year and it’s going to cost a lot of money to get there. That’s 1000% growth. It’s masturbation to sit here and consider whether or not they’ll make it.

We could easily sit here and say that GM will never be an economically viable company. The history of bankruptcies in both the automotive company and the finance company is EXTENSIVE. GMAC/Ally and Ford Credit take huge losses for decades, securitize a lot of loans, and do some unsustainable things to move inventory from the “profitable” factories to people with 600 FICO scores for 84 months at 0% with $3000 cash back on a $20k car.

We could say that major domestic airlines aren’t truly economically viable since historically they’ve only returned 1% on investment, less than risk free securities like treasury notes. I wouldn’t put Tesla in either one of these categories. I think they’re the future of automotive distribution, automotive service, and replacement cycles (TBD).

Keep talking, west. Meanwhile, the rest of us are laughing that you still seem unable to grasp the point of this thread. Good for the lulz.

It costs $6.58 to do a 260 mile charge in San Francisco at your house on off peak evening hours, or a whopping $26 a month, also known as $300 a year. In cheaper areas like Arizona it costs $3.40 for the same 260 mile charge. Road trips are free and most public parking garages or corporate campuses have free chargers, so you’re unlikely to pad the full $300 to your electric bill. FWIW, it was $250 to get an 8 quart oil change in the Boxster.

Precisely. He’s as useless as a roll cage in a 4000 lb daily driven German luxury car.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/14/37bab61a5914a4ad16d6254b14c3b52a.jpg

sweet. so to charge your car for free, you just need to go out to the highway and park it for a couple of hours. That’s convenient.

oh, and to do so, I and a large group of other individuals need to give you $13,000.

oh, and to do so, you need to pay an extra $20,000 to have the privilege vs other comparable cars

Sounds Great! You’re really onto something there westwest

Lol

If you were really cheap, you might never have to pay for electric. In this case I was at a public park on San Francisco bay. I went to a picnic for 4 hours and I could have gotten $7 of free electricity, just going about my business. I think frugality should appeal to some people here.

Good convertible weather 12 months a year, though. Maybe I’ll buy a refurbished Tesla Roadster.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/15/1b7791c2359844d031a755d18e9a3984.jpg

Plug in hybrid coming to next M3 (electric motors on front wheels):

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2015/08/bmw-going-plug-in-hybrid-with-next-m3/

San Francisco weather is frankly dogshit. It’s 62-69 virtually year round. And windy. Great for senior citizens who wear lots of khaki and like it to be ‘crisp’.

As for your Park claims , that would be great if you went for 4 hr picnics everyday. Some of us work however so the pace of our lives is much different , and we have to pay our bills.

You make jokes boat frugality but YOU arel the dummy who keeps mentioning ‘free’ fuel for the Tesla as it’s big selling point.

You ask why we are talking about california when YOU are the one who keeps yammering on about stuff that doesn’t apply to 90% of the people on the forum.

You’re a self loathing egocentric narcissist. Very complicated. The likes of which having a conversation with is completely fucking useless.

sakimono - didn’t you post a story on this board about how you got in a fight with a homeless person who was trying to clean your windows with newspaper and he sent you to the ER? I just want to know who I’m “having a conversation with”.

You’re dense as fuck. Public and private parking garages have the chargers in them too. If you work at a corporation, they have chargers on their campuses. True story - every building has electricity!

No your memory, and your name spelling, fails you. Try again.

So this is what you’re sticking with? You’re mooching charges to justify the Tesla? Just want to make sure how many ways you’re changing your argument…

You still haven’t addressed government subsidies to make it ‘work’.

You still haven’t addressed their losing money on every car

You still haven’t addressed the fact you pay AMG money for Cadillac quality (your words). Effectively a $20,000-30,000 premium.

You’re sticking with… ‘You might be able to save $1000/year by mooching electricity at the mall and at picnics!’

I just want to be sure.

I’m going to use some big boy words so try to keep up. Tesla’s problem isn’t that they need to raise the ASP by $4000 to break even. They’re a one product company scaling up to a multi product company in a capital intensive business. It’s incredible that the Model S is so profitable per unit (it made $213 million of margin on $954 million of sales) that Tesla can build a battery factory and do R&D on 2 new cars at the same time and only post a loss of about $170 million.

It’s true. You might be able to save $25,000 on gasoline per decade per car you own if you go electric. Your car might not feel like a used outdated piece of planned obsolescence shit after 36 months if you go electric. The manufacturer might pay for your mods by sending you free software that makes your car faster over the Internet.

The Audi way of doing things is cool, just really expensive and with high replacement costs. I like the aftermarket but as I grow up I appreciate a manufacturer like Porsche that presents an honest picture up front of what “options” and mods really cost on a German car. It’s why our dream cars cost so much with options. Tesla’s model is lower cost, no doubt, and in many use cases has higher performance. Their product cycle is so fast they’re releasing updates to the Model S over 3x a year, compared to annually for the german cars. Most of the updates can be retrofitted to any model S during normal service.

Maybe Audi’s version will actually make money.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/4e57af9a-4679-11e5-af2f-4d6e0e5eda22.html#axzz3jJos4U8j

Looks like westwest’s ‘Free’ upgrade/tune isn’t so free.

$5,000 to get ‘ludicrous mode’.

Also, this test of a P90D has the price at $142,000. In otherwords, it’s now the same price as an RS7 + $40,000. AKA gas for 5years + $30,000 for whatever else you want to set it aside for. New engine perhaps? You can tune your RS7, lose your engine warranty, match the Tesla 0-60 and kick the shit out of the TESLA in every other performance aspect (handling, medium speed and high speed runs, not to mention range and ease of ‘recharging’) . Then if something goes wrong and Audi decides to deny your warranty claim…no worries…you’ve got the cash for a new everything.

I’m struggling to find the point of the Tesla even more today than I was yesterday. But hey…maybe you like draining the government’s already waning resources in the pursuit of bullshit green technology (that is worse for the environment than a petrol engine)

http://www.wired.com/2015/08/tesla-model-s-p90d-review/

I present two pieces of information:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uki71gN7ahc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-SRHxcpG6I
http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/videos/a26507/bmw-m4-destroys-tesla-p85d/

The first is an “insane” P85D destroying an M4. Not even a Dinan tuned M4 would make up for the difference. Of course the “ludicrous” Tesla would keep the lead distance equal.

The second is a road course where the German car shines - accelerating from a 50 MPH roll to 120 MPH. Not really useful in any country besides rural parts of Germany on off peak hours where the autobahns have both no speed limits and no traffic. We already own tuned Audi’s so we know what an M4 is like.

Honestly the P85D insane is so fast it’s a novelty. It’s completely uncomfortable to go that fast. It’s like riding in a 991 Turbo that got rear ended by a bus to catapult the launch. You feel like you got punched in the stomach. If you were .03 BAC drunk you’d throw up for sure.

Most people are going to buy a $70k model 70D with nice seats and leather. If you really care about performance you’ll opt for the 85D and spend another $12k. This is like comparing an A7 to S7. If you have fuck you money, you can get a loaded P90D ludicrous model for $119k. This is the US pricing from the configurator - I’m not sure where you get your info from. Tesla changes their prices faster than old economy companies can print and snail mail magazines. The RS7 is the same price configured the same way with the alcantara and stuff.

http://i59.tinypic.com/ohpjk0.png

Tesla raised $738 million last week in an oversubscribed secondary offering: http://fortune.com/2015/08/20/tesla-stock-sale-cash/

Who cares about an M3 vs tesla. Go watch the RS7 vs P85

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABic0vQtgwc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R0oKmqZnHs&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGilb2QutOQ&feature=youtu.be