It just doesn't work: Tesla

General Discussion
#81

Biggest automaker market cap by 2025 - mark my words. It’s not complicated. Tesla goes up in value and VW loses the #1 spot as the economics of the business shift and the market discounts the future.

Saki no matter how many times you say it, it doesn’t cost more than $7 in the United States to charge a Tesla to 280 miles. In most places it costs $3. California is the largest auto market and gas prices won’t fall under $4 unless we get into a depression, for reasons other than the price of crude that I’ve pointed out. The United States gets most of its power from natural gas whose only bi product is a low amount of CO2, about 20% of what clean coal makes. U.S. Natural gas prices are at record lows because of recent discoveries and high extraction rates.

If you can’t understand why a company that is growing top line at 100% a year is spending more than it makes, then you should study a bit before you hit “post” on the Internet again.

You’re also missing the fact that a refurbished decade old Tesla doesn’t need to be replaced or crushed at a landfill. It’s categorically different. You say the Tesla is unreliable against all evidence but the lifetime out of pocket cost for owners has been $0. No other car company can say that. It’s not like somebody is stuck at an Indy mechanic with a $20k bill to fix their Telsa, you moron.

#82

Lifetime cost??? All Teslas are probably still within a warranty period and after that ends they are not going to comp owners for routine maintenance. So as a second owner your going to be taking the same risks as you would with a petrol car. Edmunds long term test of a 2013 model S had them at a dealer 9 times in one year/31k miles. A decade old tesla will be a fucking nightmare and even if you can switch out every single part in the chassis, how does that make any fucking sense?

#83

It’s an 8 year, infinite mile warranty on the whole car (drive unit and battery pack). For $4000 you can extend it for 4 years to 12 years. There’s no dealership. They pick the car up at your house if they determine it needs something. Pretty soon the car will just drive itself to a service appointment.

I can believe a 2013 car would have had a few free replacements as they built parts that could truly last 1,000,000 miles. It’s a continuously deliverable vehicle.

#84

Looks like P85D owners aren’t too happy…apparently dyno operators aren’t able to use atmospheric correction to meet their expectations :D. Thought this quote was hilarious:

[quote]The result of this is that from 70-90 mph the P85D is easily outperformed by an Audi RS7 with a power to weight ratio of only one HP for every eight pounds.
[/quote]
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/3htg8d/a_letter_to_elon_regarding_the_p85ds_performance/
http://learnbonds.com/122703/tesla-motors-inc-tsla-lied-about-model-s-now-fans-are-revolting/

Also, Tesla might have some problems on the horizon for their autopilot feature that was promised by September
http://learnbonds.com/122853/tesla-motors-inc-tsla-autopilot-delay-looks-like-tech-necessity/

#85

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/3htg8d/a_letter_to_elon_regarding_the_p85ds_performance/
http://learnbonds.com/122703/tesla-motors-inc-tsla-lied-about-model-s-now-fans-are-revolting/

Also, Tesla might have some problems on the horizon for their autopilot feature that was promised by September
http://learnbonds.com/122853/tesla-motors-inc-tsla-autopilot-delay-looks-like-tech-necessity/
[/quote]
I think I even said in this thread there’s no way the Tesla makes 691 horsepower. It feels more like 500, with a lot of torque under it. I think what Tesla is doing is trying to posit gasoline car equivalent horsepower. SAE should be able to make some reasonable standards for dual drivetrain cars. The problem is they’re summating the horsepower, when that really isn’t the effect of two drivetrains.

Personally I think we’re 15-20 years from truly autonomous cars. I don’t think Uber, Tesla, Apple or Google will be the ones to successfully bring it to market. I don’t even think that company exists yet. Here’s a simple example:

Self driving cars must be programmed to minimize human casualties above all else. Let’s say two autonomous vehicles are about to be in a head on collision. Car 1 has a driver, and Car 2 has 6 people in it. If one car drives off of a cliff, the other will be saved. Which car drives off the cliff? Someone has to literally program in all of this logic and maybe it shouldn’t be a programmer’s decision. It’s a policy decision that we as a society must codify before someone writes it into firmware or trains an AI to evaluate new edge cases on the fly.

I think we’re going to have self driving cars, then we’re going to have a few serious incidents which end up on cable news, and then we’ll have a dark decade where we decide what a first world country does about that. Other countries with different liability and indemnity laws will allow self driving cars and accept the consequences while our politicians talk about it. It’s a really hard problem.

#86

It’ll happen a lot sooner than 15-20 years. Google is pretty far down the rabbit hole…they have hired nearly 80% of the robots research community. They are even building their own lidars.

There are cars that have been delivered with “autopilot” like features for a while now http://www.autonews.com/article/20140804/OEM06/308049979/mercedes-benzs-autonomous-driving-features-dominate-the-industry

But no one makes a huge stink like Tesla because they are not are selling/delivering products based on hype and “future downloadable content”.

#87

Oh, they’re going to drive themselves about 90%. Then we’ll open the box of humans crashing into autonomous cars, autonomous cars crashing into human driven cars, and autonomous cars crashing into autonomous cars. They behave a bit differently than people. The biggest practical limitation in 2015 is the sensors. They can’t see through the glass of the car in front of them, so they don’t anticipate things that humans easily can today.

I got rear ended when the Boxster was driving itself in LA. It accelerated into dead stopped traffic and some millennial knocked into me, because she didn’t look ahead either. The Boxster stopped itself before it made a big mistake, much to my amazement. I wrote it up on Planet-9.

#88

lol you really have no idea how much electricity costs do you. Every time the EPA opens their mouth you can see your bill go up. In NJ for our old house built in 1996 with brand new AC units and 2799 sq feet was 500 bucks for juice with the temp set at 76 degrees and minimal 120v appliances, devices, lights on. Power keeps going up in $$$. The future is fuel cells not batteries. Batteries are heavy, toxic, and largely inefficient to drive a car’s motor.

#89

It’s $250 a month for gasoline. It’s 75% less for electric to move a performance car the same distance. Maybe $75 a month at the most.

They’re not toxic, they’re recyclable, and they are actually clean enough as is to be disposed in a landfill. I think a lot of other things in NY/NJ can kill you before non toxic car batteries.

In fact, your Audi has a toxic lead acid starter battery. Mine has a lithium ion starter battery because I’m conscientious like that.

http://my.teslamotors.com/fr_CH/node/3855

[quote]‪#‎WattsUp‬: The internal combustion engine is incredibly inefficient. Only 25% of the energy found in a gallon of gas is used to move the vehicle and wasting 75%. Electric vehicles are very efficient, using about 88% of energy to turn the wheels.
[/quote]

#90

You keep raising how much gas money per month so how much is it? Go chew on one and see how non-toxic it could be, and that link is for the roaster battery from 2008.

#91

It really depends, but it’s so little money I don’t know why you continue to quibble about it. Does it matter if it’s $7 a week or $12 a week? These are like fast food prices to move a car 250 miles.

Are you asserting that the Model S battery has a regression in it and is now toxic? The absurdity of your statement is your Audi individually contains more toxic and hazmat materials than every Tesla ever made, about 70,000 of them at last count.

I was hoping we could have a productive discussion but you sound like a talking Buzzfeed landing page. “Could clean energy be bad for the environment?!” “10 reasons electric cars won’t last” “6 Things Elon doesn’t want you to know”

#92

boy you can’t read and write at the same time can you, I said GAS not electric, and I do not know if they did and neither do YOU, facts are not there, and you never assume anything. What is there to discuss? that the tesla is a tax payer funded unreliable piece of shit that isn’t worth the money to the consumer and the taxpayer. Financial Facts, Reliability Facts, and general common sense void your super tesla car as amazing. It’s only amazing that so many stupid people buy it and or believe in it…

#93

It really depends on your definition of reliable. To me, reliability is uptime. Meaning when you want to drive it the car is ready. Spending 10 minutes a week pumping gas isn’t convenient on a 30 minute commute - it’s downtime. Getting an oil change for 2 hours is downtime. Driving to a car dealership and getting a loaner is downtime. None of these things exist with a Tesla. It charges up when you’re not using it. Yeah I know, on that one summer road trip of the year you need to stop for a whole 20 minutes if you feel like driving a hellacious 500 miles in one day. Deal breaker. When it needs service they let you know exactly for what and pick it up from your house. No VAGCOM, no cryptic codes, no nonsense. Just an alert on your smartphone.

#94

When you give the example of “none of this exits” in relation to down time compared to a gas powered car, what do you think the wait for charging the battery is? When they pick the car up and take it away to be serviced is this not down time? Do they leave a loaner? Downtime is any time that you are unable to drive the car when you want or need. To claim the Tesla has none is just dumb, when it requires a 20min downtime charge every 200 miles.

#95

Similar to how you don’t have to wait for your car to cool down when you park it in the garage, you don’t have to wait for your car to recharge. You can do other things. Unless you need to drive it for 5 hours in a row without stopping. Then you’ll be penalized 10 more minutes than gas.

There really isn’t much service unless something goes awry. Again, if someone picks it up from you at your office and returns it a few hours later you’re not having to deal with it. Not even to meet them for the key or tell them where it is. They know where it is and they have a key.

#96

This is a great buy for refurbishing a 10 year old car into a brand new one, worth six figures again. $25k in gas savings and $10k in maintenance savings over 10 years actually puts you ahead.

“Tesla Roadster battery pack replacement will cost $29,000”
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/01/tesla-roadster-battery-pack-replacement/

#97

Sorry… You just went from ‘biggest automaker in the world’ and backtracked when you got bitch slapped and laughed at…and now you’re saying biggest market cap?

What the fuck would that even prove? (other than the insatiable thirst stock market participants have for impossibly shit valuations)

#98

You haven’t done your homework. Fuck off and catch up.

#99

why do I wait in the garage for my car to cool down??? I know this sounds strange but it is a CAR things inevitably brake or need service. Does it not have some kind of brakes, axles, bearings, control arms, etc… they do need to be serviced. It only takes 10 min to pump fuel into a car in NJ with their silly full serve only law. It is less than 10 minutes easily. In my S4 I have driven 1000 miles in day, try that with your silly tesla, it will break down or run out of juice no where near a fast charging station. Boutique cars like the tesla are just that maybe pretty and novel, and maybe the latest thing for the hipster but in the real world it doesn’t work. I liked the honda FCX clarity since it worked like a car for people that drive cars.

#100

Well looks like the ‘affordable’ model X will only cost you a clean 132k at launch

http://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2015/09/01/tesla-high-end-model-x-signature-series-starts-at-132k-with-240-mile-range/

Good to see the range increasing and the cost diving. Soccer moms and real house wives of Thousand Oaks rejoice!

Now time for west to tell us why the model X is better than the Porsche Mecan Turbo S…oh wait…

tesla fanboyism < porsche fanboyism

I’m worried the comparison will make west’s head explode :o