Okay enough time has gone by. This was an April Fools joke.
I am in the process of doing a lot of maintenance along with installing multiple modifications.
Haha awesome, sounds like you and I are about in the same spot. I ended up bringing my shop the front and rear subframe, all 8 bushings, the rear final drive, the LSD, the front upper control arms, and the spherical bearings.
The only scenario I could see this remotely being close to reality is if it were RS4. A lot of maintenance, something tell me you’re doing your timing service along with other stuff…
The problem with that is that I don’t want a RS4. It is too similar to my S4. Along with I don’t want another manual car since the S-tronic/DSG and new automatic cars are so good.
Yeah timing service and rear suspension/drive train work along with a few other goodies. The face of the machine shop owner this morning was hilarious when I brought in the rear subframe to have them press out the four rubber bushings.
Yeah Jimmy same here. The RS4 is an awesome car and there are some differences but to me the differences aren’t important enough to me to make it a car I would switch to. I feel like I already have a RS4.
Good to see your getting a chance to do all the maintenance stuff.
Haha awesome, sounds like you and I are about in the same spot. I ended up bringing my shop the front and rear subframe, all 8 bushings, the rear final drive, the LSD, the front upper control arms, and the spherical bearings.
I didn’t want to post it in the B6/7 S forum for that VERY reason; not only would I get bombarded with PMs, so would Jimmy. The very first post in the thread was asking for his side skirts…haha, of ALL things.
I just thought it would be funny to post as I was helping him remove the rear diff from the subframe and we neatly laid it out on the ground; my brain went “PART OUT THREAD” 
I didn’t want to post it in the B6/7 S forum for that VERY reason; not only would I get bombarded with PMs, so would Jimmy. The very first post in the thread was asking for his side skirts…haha, of ALL things.
I just thought it would be funny to post as I was helping him remove the rear diff from the subframe and we neatly laid it out on the ground; my brain went “PART OUT THREAD”
These two pictures show a good amount of what was taken out of the car.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/01/80a956230497bce1440bf3306aa77f81.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/01/8472755427dc60aacad3de97bfb9a5c4.jpg
Took the whole back of the car apart to be able to take the rear subframe to my local machine shop to have them install the 034 Motorsport solid rear subframe bushings. Also installing/replacing a bunch of other stuff too but I don’t have good pictures of that.
The machine shop guys found out the hard way that the factory rear subframe bushings are oil filled when they went to press them out and it exploded all over the place. It appears that the factory rear subframe bushings bolt to the unibody with a hard metal portion in the middle and then the rear subframe is able to float a bit to allow a lot of movement and NVH absorption. Thus everything else that attaches to the rear subframe is able to float too like the rear diff, rear axles, rear suspension, rear wheel bearings/hubs, rear brakes, and rear wheels. I wondered why the rear of my car would break free so easily and it felt like the body had to catch up. It will be very interesting to see how much NVH is felt/heard from this when I get everything else done and start driving the car again.
Took some time to play with the RS4 rear suspension parts that I got from 65vetteC6 to see what the differences were when compared to my B6 S4 parts. I wanted to see what it would take to put RS4 rear brakes on my car and it was a lot more than I originally thought. It was worth it to me to get these parts just to see and hopefully somebody finds this information helpful.
Overview shot of the S4 components installed on my car:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20rear%20suspension%201_zpshpdqximo.jpg
Overview picture of the RS4 components installed on my car:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/RS4%20rear%20suspension%201_zpsczeuuofw.jpg
In the above pictures I have the 034 Motorsport adjustable rear upper control arms since the upper arms are the same for the S4s and RS4s.
Below I have a picture of the normal rear upper control arm.
http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/326878_x600.jpg
The rear subframes are also the same between the B6/7 S4s and the RS4s. Below I have a picture of my rear subframe with solid bushings installed but normally they would be rubber bushings.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/Rear%20subframe%20with%20034%20Motorsport%20solid%20bushings_zpsrbsnub5h.jpg
The cast weirdly shaped lower control arms that hold the coil springs are angled differently to probably allow for better clearance of the brakes and wheels. The measurements that I took are done based off using the lift platform as a stop. The RS4 rear suspension was about an inch higher than the S4 suspension.
S4 lower measurement:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20rear%20suspension%202_zps2nmq3igt.jpg
RS4 lower measurement:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/RS4%20rear%20suspension%202_zpswuw4x24y.jpg
S4 upper measurement:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20rear%20suspension%203_zpsvz2muo9d.jpg
RS4 upper measurement:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/RS4%20rear%20suspension%203_zpszmhkwrsv.jpg
The black lower tie rod arms are different lengths. The RS4 arm is noticeably shorter than the S4 arm.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20to%20RS4%20rear%20suspension%20compare%20_%20rear%20tie%20rod%20arms%20_%20S4%20arm%20is%20longer%20and%20on%20the%20left_zpshloxzohv.jpg
The rear wheel bearing housings are different, the rear wheel bearings are the same, the rear wheel hubs are different between my B6 S4 and the RS4 but it is fuzzy for the later B7s off part numbers. The rear wheel bearing housings are angled differently to match the way that the cast weirdly shaped lower control arms. The rear brake caliper bracket holes are different sizes, the S4 uses 10 mm bolts as the RS4 uses 12 mm bolts. The rear wheel hubs are spaced out farther to accommodate the offset of the larger rear brake rotors on the RS4. This is why CHECKERED had to modify his hubs and housings in this thread:
S4 wheel hub offset measurement:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20to%20RS4%20rear%20suspension%20compare%20_%20S4%20rear%20hub_zpspo3qq7da.jpg
RS4 wheel hub offset measurement:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20to%20RS4%20rear%20suspension%20compare%20_%20RS4%20rear%20hub_zpsdth8go9n.jpg
The rear axles are different lengths with the RS4 rear axles being a little longer. The S4 rear axles are on the bottom and the RS4 rear axles are on top. The tape measure was used to better illustrate the different lengths.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20and%20RS4%20rear%20axles%201_zpsatkcw4lj.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20and%20RS4%20rear%20axles%202_zpsksecoiha.jpg
Look at the outer CV joints. The RS4 outer CV joints are bigger and beefier. The splines are the same for the outer CV joints where they go into the wheel hubs.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20and%20RS4%20rear%20axles%203_zpsksgix3sq.jpg
With the RS4 rear suspension still installed, I put in the rear RS4 axle to see how they fit to with my S4 rear diff.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/RS4%20rear%20axle%20at%20the%20rear%20diff%20with%20RS4%20rear%20suspension_zpsobrf5wn8.jpg
Just for shits and giggles, I left the RS4 rear suspension in and put in the rear S4 axle to see how the combination would fit at the rear diff. The rear inner CV joint is not even close to the flange of the rear diff.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20rear%20axle%20at%20the%20rear%20diff%20with%20RS4%20rear%20suspension_zpsxhenqfuf.jpg
The rear differentials are also different between the S4 and RS4. Here is a picture from koolade9’s build thread on Audizine. The RS4 rear diff is on the right and the rear diff on the left is probably not from a B6/7 S4 but it looks very similar to what would be correct.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/koolade9/Ibis%20RS4/photo4-2_zpsa3ff4454.jpg
That pretty much covers everything.
Now for reflection on my idea of using RS4 rear brakes on my S4. Here are some numbers on some of the rear brake options for the B6/7 S4s and RS4s:
- Stock B6/7 S4 rear brakes use 300 mm brake rotors and single piston sliding brake calipers.
- Stock B7 RS4 rear brakes use 325 mm brake rotors and single piston sliding brake calipers.
- JHM sells a B6/7 S4 rear BBK which uses 330 mm brake rotors and it reuses the stock single piston sliding brake calipers.
- Brembo sells a B7 RS4 rear BBK that uses 380 mm brake rotors and four piston fixed calipers but you lose the parking brake.
- Stoptech sells a B7 RS4 rear BBK that uses 355 mm brake rotors, four piston fixed calipers, and they include a parking brake caliper setup to retain the parking brake.
Cost wise it just doesn’t make sense for a B6/7 S4 owner to switch to a RS4 rear brake setup unless they are going with a RS4 rear BBK from Brembo or Stoptech since in addition to the BBK they would need the rear suspension and axles to make it all work. Even then it is a stretch since the cost would still be outrageous!
Wow that’s awesome work Jimmy. I would be very interested in everything you can show on how the s4 stacks up against the RS4 I think that’s really cool.
Maybe just cut and paste that RS4 stuff into a new thread. I would love to see more of a master list.
The guy that offered to buy my front R8 brake calipers, lightweight RS4 brake rotors, and other parts backed out so I have held on to them. Messed with them today to see if I could get them to fit under all three of my wheels.
Between the last test fitting and now I had noticed that the R8 brake calipers have an additional support brace across the lower portion of the front of the caliper that is not apart of the RS4 calipers. That brace was causing all of my wheels to not clear the calipers so I removed it. For reference here is the picture from before:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/R8brakestestfit1_zps60e9e0eb.jpg
The Advan TC3 18x9 ET25 wheels with summer 265/35/R18 tires cleared easily without any spacers. That is not surprising since Advan claims that those wheels can clear 390 mm rotors.
After some caliper modifications, I got my Forgestar F14 18x9 ET30 wheels and winter 235/40/R18 tires to clear the calipers with a 3 mm spacer. Tired taking off enough material so that I wouldn’t have to use a spacer but the spokes hit the caliper without a spacer.
Then after more caliper modifications, I got my Enkei RPF1 18x8 ET35 wheels and track 235/40/R18 tires to clear the calipers with a combination of spacers to 13 mm. Need to take off more material to be able to clear the calipers with just a 10 mm spacer but there is a nasty stepped lip towards the outside edge of the wheel barrel and I am not sure how much more material that I can take off. The picture below was taken with a 17 mm spacer and it still looks like a tight fit.
These two pictures show a good amount of what was taken out of the car.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/01/80a956230497bce1440bf3306aa77f81.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/01/8472755427dc60aacad3de97bfb9a5c4.jpg
Took the whole back of the car apart to be able to take the rear subframe to my local machine shop to have them install the 034 Motorsport solid rear subframe bushings. Also installing/replacing a bunch of other stuff too but I don’t have good pictures of that.
The machine shop guys found out the hard way that the factory rear subframe bushings are oil filled when they went to press them out and it exploded all over the place. It appears that the factory rear subframe bushings bolt to the unibody with a hard metal portion in the middle and then the rear subframe is able to float a bit to allow a lot of movement and NVH absorption. Thus everything else that attaches to the rear subframe is able to float too like the rear diff, rear axles, rear suspension, rear wheel bearings/hubs, rear brakes, and rear wheels. I wondered why the rear of my car would break free so easily and it felt like the body had to catch up. It will be very interesting to see how much NVH is felt/heard from this when I get everything else done and start driving the car again.
That’s some good info right there JB! Thanks! 18x9 et25 does that fit well without poking?
Okay will do.
Haven’t driven on them yet but they should fit plus my fenders are rolled for extra clearance. The Forgestar F14s are effectively ET27 with the 3 mm spacers and there is room still. Not much but there is still more room.
Took some time to play with the RS4 rear suspension parts that I got from 65vetteC6 to see what the differences were when compared to my B6 S4 parts. I wanted to see what it would take to put RS4 rear brakes on my car and it was a lot more than I originally thought. It was worth it to me to get these parts just to see and hopefully somebody finds this information helpful.
Overview shot of the S4 components installed on my car:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20rear%20suspension%201_zpshpdqximo.jpg
Overview picture of the RS4 components installed on my car:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/RS4%20rear%20suspension%201_zpsczeuuofw.jpg
In the above pictures I have the 034 Motorsport adjustable rear upper control arms since the upper arms are the same for the S4s and RS4s.
Below I have a picture of the normal rear upper control arm.
http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/326878_x600.jpg
The rear subframes are also the same between the B6/7 S4s and the RS4s. Below I have a picture of my rear subframe with solid bushings installed but normally they would be rubber bushings.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/Rear%20subframe%20with%20034%20Motorsport%20solid%20bushings_zpsrbsnub5h.jpg
The cast weirdly shaped lower control arms that hold the coil springs are angled differently to probably allow for better clearance of the brakes and wheels. The measurements that I took are done based off using the lift platform as a stop. The RS4 rear suspension was about an inch higher than the S4 suspension.
S4 lower measurement:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20rear%20suspension%202_zps2nmq3igt.jpg
RS4 lower measurement:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/RS4%20rear%20suspension%202_zpswuw4x24y.jpg
S4 upper measurement:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20rear%20suspension%203_zpsvz2muo9d.jpg
RS4 upper measurement:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/RS4%20rear%20suspension%203_zpszmhkwrsv.jpg
The black lower tie rod arms are different lengths. The RS4 arm is noticeably shorter than the S4 arm.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20to%20RS4%20rear%20suspension%20compare%20_%20rear%20tie%20rod%20arms%20_%20S4%20arm%20is%20longer%20and%20on%20the%20left_zpshloxzohv.jpg
The rear wheel bearing housings are different, the rear wheel bearings are the same, the rear wheel hubs are different between my B6 S4 and the RS4 but it is fuzzy for the later B7s off part numbers. The rear wheel bearing housings are angled differently to match the way that the cast weirdly shaped lower control arms. The rear brake caliper bracket holes are different sizes, the S4 uses 10 mm bolts as the RS4 uses 12 mm bolts. The rear wheel hubs are spaced out farther to accommodate the offset of the larger rear brake rotors on the RS4. This is why CHECKERED had to modify his hubs and housings in this thread:
S4 wheel hub offset measurement:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20to%20RS4%20rear%20suspension%20compare%20_%20S4%20rear%20hub_zpspo3qq7da.jpg
RS4 wheel hub offset measurement:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20to%20RS4%20rear%20suspension%20compare%20_%20RS4%20rear%20hub_zpsdth8go9n.jpg
The rear axles are different lengths with the RS4 rear axles being a little longer. The S4 rear axles are on the bottom and the RS4 rear axles are on top. The tape measure was used to better illustrate the different lengths.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20and%20RS4%20rear%20axles%201_zpsatkcw4lj.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20and%20RS4%20rear%20axles%202_zpsksecoiha.jpg
Look at the outer CV joints. The RS4 outer CV joints are bigger and beefier. The splines are the same for the outer CV joints where they go into the wheel hubs.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20and%20RS4%20rear%20axles%203_zpsksgix3sq.jpg
With the RS4 rear suspension still installed, I put in the rear RS4 axle to see how they fit to with my S4 rear diff.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/RS4%20rear%20axle%20at%20the%20rear%20diff%20with%20RS4%20rear%20suspension_zpsobrf5wn8.jpg
Just for shits and giggles, I left the RS4 rear suspension in and put in the rear S4 axle to see how the combination would fit at the rear diff. The rear inner CV joint is not even close to the flange of the rear diff.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/S4%20rear%20axle%20at%20the%20rear%20diff%20with%20RS4%20rear%20suspension_zpsxhenqfuf.jpg
The rear differentials are also different between the S4 and RS4. Here is a picture from koolade9’s build thread on Audizine. The RS4 rear diff is on the right and the rear diff on the left is probably not from a B6/7 S4 but it looks very similar to what would be correct.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w2/koolade9/Ibis%20RS4/photo4-2_zpsa3ff4454.jpg
That pretty much covers everything.
Now for reflection on my idea of using RS4 rear brakes on my S4. Here are some numbers on some of the rear brake options for the B6/7 S4s and RS4s:
- Stock B6/7 S4 rear brakes use 300 mm brake rotors and single piston sliding brake calipers.
- Stock B7 RS4 rear brakes use 325 mm brake rotors and single piston sliding brake calipers.
- JHM sells a B6/7 S4 rear BBK which uses 330 mm brake rotors and it reuses the stock single piston sliding brake calipers.
- Brembo sells a B7 RS4 rear BBK that uses 380 mm brake rotors and four piston fixed calipers but you lose the parking brake.
- Stoptech sells a B7 RS4 rear BBK that uses 355 mm brake rotors, four piston fixed calipers, and they include a parking brake caliper setup to retain the parking brake.
Cost wise it just doesn’t make sense for a B6/7 S4 owner to switch to a RS4 rear brake setup unless they are going with a RS4 rear BBK from Brembo or Stoptech since in addition to the BBK they would need the rear suspension and axles to make it all work. Even then it is a stretch since the cost would still be outrageous!
Wow that’s awesome work Jimmy. I would be very interested in everything you can show on how the s4 stacks up against the RS4 I think that’s really cool.
Maybe just cut and paste that RS4 stuff into a new thread. I would love to see more of a master list.
The guy that offered to buy my front R8 brake calipers, lightweight RS4 brake rotors, and other parts backed out so I have held on to them. Messed with them today to see if I could get them to fit under all three of my wheels.
Between the last test fitting and now I had noticed that the R8 brake calipers have an additional support brace across the lower portion of the front of the caliper that is not apart of the RS4 calipers. That brace was causing all of my wheels to not clear the calipers so I removed it. For reference here is the picture from before:
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll37/Jimmybones777/R8brakestestfit1_zps60e9e0eb.jpg
The Advan TC3 18x9 ET25 wheels with summer 265/35/R18 tires cleared easily without any spacers. That is not surprising since Advan claims that those wheels can clear 390 mm rotors.
After some caliper modifications, I got my Forgestar F14 18x9 ET30 wheels and winter 235/40/R18 tires to clear the calipers with a 3 mm spacer. Tired taking off enough material so that I wouldn’t have to use a spacer but the spokes hit the caliper without a spacer.
Then after more caliper modifications, I got my Enkei RPF1 18x8 ET35 wheels and track 235/40/R18 tires to clear the calipers with a combination of spacers to 13 mm. Need to take off more material to be able to clear the calipers with just a 10 mm spacer but there is a nasty stepped lip towards the outside edge of the wheel barrel and I am not sure how much more material that I can take off. The picture below was taken with a 17 mm spacer and it still looks like a tight fit.
That’s some good info right there JB! Thanks! 18x9 et25 does that fit well without poking?
Okay will do.
Haven’t driven on them yet but they should fit plus my fenders are rolled for extra clearance. The Forgestar F14s are effectively ET27 with the 3 mm spacers and there is room still. Not much but there is still more room.