I live in a province (in canada) that has a population the same Netherlands (aka the 12th most populated country in Europe) and is larger than any country in Europe. Other than Russia (which is mostly in Asia) Ontario is the size of France, Sweden and Greece combined. We have a grand total of 3 dragstrips.
“Oh but Canada is different to the US where drag racing is far more prevalent”
Sure if you want to try more excuses. Let’s test them.
How about california? That’s 40 million people. Same size as all of Poland or all of Spain. Grand total of…3 dragstrips.
Oops.
‘but california isn’t into cars’
Sure, we’ll what about Michigan? Home of Detroit… The car capital of Earth. They don’t call detroit motor city by accident. 10 million people total population in Michigan . The hands down car craziest place in America…must be dozens of 1/4 mile drag strips right?
Nope. 5. Same as in the UK, which is not much bigger land mass either.
Not to mention the dozens of airstrip rental drag racing events across Europe that pop up every weekend in the summer.
This exists across Europe. Ignorant Europeans like yourself make this mistake a lot though, so don’t feel bad.
I’m not entirely sure what you’re arguing about at this point. Counting drag strips per capita and size? And I thought I was being pedantic.
If we look at the topic at hand, RS4s, and the amount of 1/4 mile results you have from them, how big a percentage is from Europe? Shouldn’t take long to count. What is your explanation for the complete lack of times from Europe on your chart if not cultural/practical differences? Just curious.
When European car magazines road test / performance test a car more often than not there won’t be a 1/4 mile time. That alone indicates a difference in what is used as a performance metric which is recognisable to everyone.
Most of Europe is on the metric system anyway so a quarter mile is a bit difficult for us to imagine. Insert Pulp Fiction reference here.
Some magazines will test 200, 400 and 1000 meter times where the middle one is close to a quarter mile but not quite. And trap speeds, if they are measured, is the speed at the end of the run rather than an average over the last xx feet (don’t remember how many)
Still, it’s pretty far off topic at this point. I said that your sample size for european tuners is too small to draw a conclusion, and I’ve not seen that contradicted. Whichever unofficial data was not included in the list appears very hard to find on youtube, google, or rs246.com directly.
I’ll post updates to my car as they happen, until then I think we can stop going in circles.
Complex and logical are not contradictory. Simple logic can be complex. Computers are entirely logical, it’s all they know. Complexity of ECUs comes down to the sheer number of inputs and algorithms. They are not unpredictable, it’s just a large puzzle.
[quote]You are probably a mediocre (insert discipline) engineer who needs his hand slapped by a ruler every other day by the guys that actually know what the fuck is going on.
[/quote]
I’m fascinated by everyone’s obsession with my personal occupation. I’ve not made any guesses what any of you are doing? Odd.
I don’t work as an engineer. I have my own business and it’s far from engineering related even if my education was somewhat closer to it.
Until you do your homework you will continue to spin around and be ignorant. RTFS already. I had to tell you this on rs246 once already.
You yourself said the 1/4 mile isn’t popular over there and there aren’t many dragstrip. I showed you that you’re wrong, and in fact the 1/4 mile there is about as popular as it is here. You then deflected and ignored that and call the proof pedantic. That’s the only way to crush a pedantic cockroach…is with the boot heel of pedantry. Also interesting is that nobody here has called you pedantic once. You must be so used to that in your daily life that it’s all running together in your brain and you assume it has happened here. That’s what happens in your mid 30s.
Then you again say you want to know why there aren’t more European 1/4 mile times on the list. That has been explained to you MULTIPLE times, but you don’t listen or do your homework. Go read the qualifying process.
You mention that European magazines test 400m…don’t you think that’s odd? Why not 500m? Not a very round number for a metric system based region. Maybe because 400m is within a few feet of the 1/4 mile.
Oh that’s interesting. Must be a coincidence. Must also be a coincidence that the only thing dragtimes.Info has consistently measured over the years is the 1/4 mile.
He makes a statement about tuning. We offer the answer
He says he needs proof
We offer proof
He says he needs more proof
We say we have seen the more proof it’s in line with what we have on our list.
He says you need more on the list
We say if your really interested in finding the same data we all did that echos the list go look. No looking just more talking
As I said it’s funny. When you to testing you come to a conclusion based off actual data. The facts we have provided are from actual data. His objection is all about there might be better you don’t know. In any real sport or competition you don’t send the champion of the world to box or fight or play soccer against everyone. You only can fight or compete against those that care to compete and participate. Saying there isn’t data from X OR You company just says they don’t care enough to earn credibility or to show there products work. So to say you need more data just says the people who you don’t have data from are irrelevant. They are like that guy who sits at home saying how great he is even tho he hasn’t done anything
Isn’t it generally considered rude to make uninvited assumptions about other people’s personal lives? I’m making a scientific argument not an emotional one, so it’s entirely uncalled for.
[quote]Then you again say you want to know why there aren’t more European 1/4 mile times on the list. That has been explained to you MULTIPLE times, but you don’t listen or do your homework. Go read the qualifying process.
[/quote]
I had read it, and all it does is confirm my point.
Which is (heads up: pay attention to this bit right here): the list is statistically useless to compare ECU tunes.
If you wanted to have a list that distilled, as accurately as possible, the performance of cars in normalized conditions at the very least you would have to include temperature, altitude, barometric pressure…heck probably throw in dew point and turn it into a single DA figure.
That way, all times and trap speeds could be at least corrected.
Using certified drag strips only ensures that their timing standards are up to snuff. It means you can have a race there and have reliable timing on a level playing field. Even if the strip isn’t level or at 5000 feet above MSL. It does NOT mean you can take a time from any certified track and compare it to one on the other side of the world even when you take (D)A corrections into account (like the NHRA actually does http://www.nhra.com/competition/altitude.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1)
Case in point, Santa Pod raceway is actually uphill for example. It’s visible on Google earth but old survey data measured the finish line between 4 and 5 feet higher than the start.
Some tracks are slower than others, some days are slower than others. Certification doesn’t influence that.
Since you keep mentioning that a lot of stuff did NOT make it onto the list…the accuracy of those results is in question making them even less relevant than the list itself.
[quote]You mention that European magazines test 400m…don’t you think that’s odd? Why not 500m? Not a very round number for a metric system based region. Maybe because 400m is within a few feet of the 1/4 mile.
Oh that’s interesting. Must be a coincidence.
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Sometimes they test it. You find many more 1000 meter tests and it’s not hard to check at 200 and 400 while they’re at it. Even so, how many numbers are there between 1 and 10? Wouldn’t be a staggering coincidence if it was. Not like Audi selling thousands of RS4s and the fastest ever stock times being done in roughly the same place by a couple of guys who all know each other.
I think it’s a great idea to have that quarter mile list, but you’d have to add several things to it if you ever want to turn it into a scientifically valid tool for comparing performance between cars in different states of tune.
All the words in the world won’t change the science behind it, sorry.
It’s funny reading your posts now. You’re just desperate.
Again the 1/4 mile is not ‘popular’ here either. Same goes for Europe. We were talking about relative popularity and availability of the 1/4 mile as a benchmarking acceleration test and you made it sound like there are dragstrips in every town here and almost none in Europe but reality is different.
Then you surmise that the preponderance of 0-400m testing in European periodicals is a coincidence. Do you hear yourself? Why can’t you just say ‘oh wow I didn’t realise there were so few in North America’ or ‘wow I didn’t realise there were so many in Europe’. No, you will argue to the death with no leg to stand on.
Then you trumped yourself.
You then said the fastest stock rs4 times are all being run by a few guys in the same area. That’s your most ignorant and at the same time most desperate statement yet. Again, let’s educate you.
Sakimano 12.75@108.36 - Toronto, Canada
Jnaut 12.84@107.92 - Palm Beach Florida, USA
RichardJeans 12.88@108.02 Australia
Florida and Toronto are the two closest of that triumvirate and we are the same distance apart as Moscow and Brussels. 2500 kms. Moron.
You’ve also (a couple of times) made an attempt to question my credibility or integrity as the organizer of that list, since I’ve run the fastest stock rs4 time. For that, you can go fuck yourself.
Any qualifying times shared go on the list. You need to post multiple timeslips, and for records preferably video as well as having witnesses. I had all 3.
Enjoy. A friend who was there that day (one of 10 members of the site who were there) made and posted this video.
JC…your argument isn’t scientific…it’s actually an argument about the data gathered not being scientific enough for YOU.
You have brought up things like “shift speed preference”…really?
Also, we do compare (temperature, altitude, barometric pressure)…or “DA”, but that isn’t annotated on the list, we are all well aware of that effect on the power of a vehicle. But we aren’t here to do the correction bullshit so throw that idea out the window.
I’m not sure how you would ever come to a conclusion on ANYTHING, not just this subject. You can only have so much control. Even if we had all of the info you think we should have…you’d still discredit it. You would bring up “shift speed”, tire compounds, tailwind/headwind, Motor health(you’d probably want compression numbers before), spark plug gap, tire pressure, engine oil viscosity…and more
You are really just fucking annoying…nothing else. You aren’t teaching us anything here. We use the list for our own reasons/comparisons…basically to benchmark our own cars, but if another tune starts showing consistent results after years of reliability and testing like JHMs, then we would probably be talking about it. The FACT is…there aren’t any other tunes that have shown us this…but maybe one is out there somewhere.
It’s actually comical how the Europeans buy ported and polished IM and theses crazy expensive ram air boxes…when we have seen them tested and rendered pointless.I’m sure you don’t want to hear about any of that though.
Like I said before…this is tiring, you have an awesome car and I hope you get it running like it should, but if your requirements are this strict on proof you will have a hard time choosing any parts for it if you decide to upgrade, but I know I won’t
Scientific is very on/off. It is or isn’t. For me, and I have a scientific background, it is not.
[quote]we aren’t here to do the correction bullshit
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Corrections for NA cars such as the NHRA uses (the same people who certify drag strips after all) are very reliable. It’s not BS. And the list would be a more valuable resource if it formally included what everyone here informally knows.
[quote]The FACT is…there aren’t any other tunes that have shown us this…but maybe one is out there somewhere.
[/quote]
Well if there IS one, it stands to reason it would be one which is not at all used on your continent. By tuners who don’t do remote flashes. Again, the position that in your experience(s) JHM tunes are by far the best is reasonable. The exclusion of things you have no experience with is not.
[quote]If your requirements are this strict on proof you will have a hard time choosing any parts for it if you decide to upgrade, but I know I won’t
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I don’t have such a requirement. I only questioned the absolute statements by others which could not possibly be proven. I’m fine saying I don’t know personally. It’s just that something of a shitstorm ensued when I did not accept a pre-chewed reality that easily. I live in a different place with different options, try to understand my viewpoint.
This has been less than entertaining for me as well, and I am disappointed by the level of courtesy by some in what was for me a purely rational inquiry.
Noticed it when I got back from dropping off the missus this morning. With the hood open it’s coming from the right hand side and it’s louder closer to the firewall, but it’s not very audible from the top. From the bottom however, as can be seen in the video, it’s quite loud. Maybe not as loud as the mic on my phone makes it out but still. From the cabin, I can just hear it when idling with the fan off if I listen for it.
Pressing the clutch changes nothing. Increasing revs does increase the frequency a bit but it doesn’t appear to be very linear with revs. It’s a somewhat chaotic sound, not a clearly distinguishable pattern. Like a jar of marbles in a washing machine.
My first guess was something related to the timing chain given the location, but it’s hard to put your finger on it, at one point I thought it sounded like a pump with air bubbles in it (from the top) but the sound from the bottom is a bit more metal-y.
So far buying a used RS4 has been quite a lot like buying a used RS6.
Probably not going to the flywheel. They’re still searching but it appears to come from the timing chain system. There’s a significant language barrier and that’s about all I got so far.
My oil had the viscosity of water, roughly, when it was hot. Fuel from the leaking injector(s) has been diluting it. This may have caused part to fail which depends on lubrication. Only bright point is that there’s no sign so far that the engine bearings have been seriously damaged.
Either way I don’t see how it’ll be fixed without engine will be coming out. It’s the wrong side of the engine to work on.
When that happens it only makes sense to rebuild the box and change the flywheel and clutch at the same time. Plus 8 new injectors, a carbon clean and piggyfying the downpipes. So that’s going to be a couple grand worth of work. Oh well. I’m off to get a tan anyway next week, when I get back mid march hopefully she’ll run again.
Man that’s tough. Flywheel would be more vibration. You should be able to feel that. The oil is not good it could have worked something else to go bad. Yes it’s hard to know exactly what’s up.
Yeah. Certainty about the issue might take a little while. The oil being in a pretty poor state doesn’t necessarily mean it’s related. But it’s a good a guess as any so far.
One thing which doesn’t fit entirely is the sound being exactly the same on a cold start at 0C as when the engine is hot. Typically when you’ve damaged an oil bearing of some sort, the thickness of cold oil (plus high oil pressure) would temporarily prevent the damaged surfaces from rubbing or at least make a difference in volume. This sounds a lot more like a regular bearing which has gone south. Not sure how many bearings there are on the firewall side of the engine though.
I don’t think it’s bearing related. The timing system sounds like a good possibility. It would of almost been more helpful to hear the noise as the revs went up. Let us know what you find.
Will do. Engine’s coming out on Tuesday, nothing further could be found out while it’s in place.
Whatever broken parts need to be replaced won’t be in stock at dealers here I don’t think. Will be a scramble to fly to Europe to get some parts to fix it before I’m off to the Seychelles.
That’s literally the only way to get “rare” car parts here in a hurry: book a plane ticket to go and get them
