Thanks, can’t believe my luck either ;D
He’d been trying to sell it since December 2014. Not many RS4s around here…and he didn’t talk it up much in the ad mostly complaining that he couldn’t live with the drone. Sale started at 100K RUR and was down to 60K when I stumbled across it. I got lucky that there’s virtually no market for it here.
As of yesterday, the JHM exhaust is on the car! Only took a month…
First impression when I started the car and drove it down the street: I can’t believe this is the quietest possible version of this exhaust. Why anyone would go for something louder than this is beyond me. I realize things are probably perceived slightly differently on the the American continent, for euro standards this thing is loud enough that it can be socially awkward depending on where you’re going. Good fun on Friday night, not so much something you’d pull up in front of a customer on Monday morning. But that’s just social differences and not something that is objectively quantifiable.
I also understand immediately why the guy sold it, it does drone like a mofo from 1400 to 2000-ish. And when I say drone, I think you’d struggle to make an exhaust drone any harder if you tried. It can make some of my interior trim pieces vibrate along with it. It’s very bad even at light throttle, only if you’re trying to keep a steady slow speed does the noise lessen somewhat but even the slowest of accelerations makes the whole car into a boom chamber (if there is such a thing). What’s worse, the drone is equally bad off throttle during deceleration. With generally slow city driving you find yourself in the “bad” spots quite a lot. Keeping revs out of that range isn’t that easy particularly with a very cold engine in the morning I don’t like taking it to 3500+ in first and second to keep the noise down. (the first 30 secs with the SAI running is laugh-out-loud bad but who cares it doesn’t last long)
I figure there is some luck of the draw involved with a built-to-order exhaust like this. 9 out of 10 might be all right in the drone department but very small tolerances in the production process can tip something the wrong way. I have some hope that it will get better as time passes and it gets run in more. I think I’ll manage to live with it as I’m not really using the car that much and I’m aiming to get a different daily driver soon anyway. But the thought of going back to my stock exhaust did cross my mind more than once. It’s just a huge character change from a slightly understated car to something that sounds like Lamborghini signed off on it. At full chat it does sound undeniably epic. It has a really, really nice note.
My butt dyno is useless as the whole car feels and sounds so different that it’s hard to tell whether it’s any faster or not. But that’s where empirical measurement comes in, and I did a few runs that show very clearly a substantial gain over the stock exhaust with piggies.
I remember when I had the precats removed the car did the 3-8K test somewhere between 2 and 3 tenths faster than fully stock. But that testing was on winter tires so not comparable to the current summer tires. Ever since I fitted the new summer tires I wasn’t able to replicate the really good times. I suspect a slight difference in circumference perhaps combined with higher frictional losses for the Michelin PSS. Anyway, the best run I’ve done in cool conditions on the summer tires had been about 8 seconds flat. I did get a 7.8 during a highway run (better engine bay cooling than I ever manage here) but that was a single attempt in a different location so invalid for comparison. It was a few degrees C cooler today, I assume the old setup may have done as low as 7.9 seconds.
I did 3 runs with the new exhaust and got 7.6 - 7.6 - 7.55s. So the difference is probably slightly bigger than from just removing the restrictive precats and going to piggies. This is definitely at the higher end of my expectations. It’ll be interesting to see if it gets any better when the winter tires go back on. Either way it’s pretty good considering it has probably never had a carbon clean done. Unexpectedly I am also seeing some increase in MAF flow readings compared to earlier logging. Expected flow was 157-158 g/s per bank in these conditions but I saw peaks of 164-165 g/s at 8000 RPM. Cyls 1 and 3 saw -2.3 degrees of retard which is slightly less than before I think (requested overall advance 34.8 to 36.8 degrees above 7000)
I had been thinking that if the difference was only like a tenth of a second that I might put the stock exhaust back on, but these gains are a bit too nice to get rid of.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B8orNQvq5I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmkp4H7px8w
Weird. Mine is very civil. It just sounds like an awesome car, and people check it out but it’s nowhere near asshole level
Got a decibel meter? We should compare notes. Mine is the original prototype with cats in the downpipes, and resonators in the catback.
Nothing reliable - just an app on my smartphone. Inside the car it shows 62 dB idling at the traffic light, drone at light accel 1800rpm is 80 dB and loud drone with more throttle at 1800rpm shows 86 dB. At 2500rpm the volume decreases by about 10 dB for each scenario.
Even with the drone it’s still a lot of fun needless to say.
what kind of phone? I will get the same app and try it. If android, that’s easy. If apple, I will use a friend’s phone
Not sure if you’re aware, but you should have someone drive it for you. Have them go by in 4th slowly and give throttle so they’re in the drone zone. Drone is only inside your car but does not influence outside the car voume at all. The volume level outside will be pretty steady as you enter and exit the drone RPM zone.
So that just leaves you managing the drone with throttle input and gear changes to make it more comfortable inside the car.
I did this…had someone drive my B7 S4 through that RPM range it was steady volume outside but insane loud inside. Once I figured out how to manage the RPM and throttle (just don’t give it the beans at 1500 RPM) I got over it real quick inside. Took 3 weeks.
It should be noted the drone on my B7 S4 was way worse than on my RS4.
Andoid (Samsung S6) Sound meter pro https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=kr.aboy.sound&hl=en
I’ll try some more exact numbers when I’m not stuck in traffic. I just had it standing upright in the ashtray as I was driving and looking at the screen at the same time. Holding the phone in between the front seats didn’t change the numbers much.
Sorry linked to the wrong app, I’m using the free version of it: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=kr.sira.sound&hl=en
I’ll give that a whirl with the same app on Monday
80db is loud
that’s a pretty decent run there. About 7.5 seconds is solid for what would be emissions compliant just about everywhere.
Thanks!
Absolute sound measurements of the app might not be mega accurate, but if we correct for a baseline and apply an offset it should be pretty close. Sitting in the car with the engine idling it fluctuated between 62 and 63 dB on my phone. That should be very similar between our cars.
I think the exhaust sound outside of the car is excellent and pretty acceptable volume wise. Only problem is in the car below 2000 RPM. There is a band about 500 rpm wide where it just produces a constant low hum in the car and you can’t tell if the engine is a V8 or inline 4 at that point. There’s zero detail in it. Which I don’t think is the case in other JHM exhausts I’ve heard sound clips of, but it’s hard to compare with most phone recordings only picking up highs.
I’m on Cyprus till Friday anyway but if you don’t mind we could perhaps devise some specific conditions for the sound testing e.g. 1500 to 2500 in 3rd gear and then let it coast back down.
Unfortunately there’s not much that can be done about the actual drone no matter the results. I doubt the effectiveness of aftermarket sound deadening material which would add a bunch of weight - low frequency sound is very tough to stop.
Mine
Idling with clutch out 66db
Idling with clutch in 68db
1800 light throttle 4th gear 74db
1800 light throttle 6th base 78db
1800 heavy throttle 6th gear 81db
Strike that … Never goes above 81 even at 8000
Redo with the black dial ’ sound meter ’ app maybe
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/10/5bac502d829550c6875e211f5921fbb8.jpg
Forgot about this…thanks! Will give it a go.
Last time I tried it I went for a “high score” and saw something like 87-88 at full throttle 1800-1900 rpm. I’ll try the other app and see what it says.
On Sat I did about 200 miles in the car with a lot of highway and the noise does get tiring after a while. It’s not too pervasive from about 55-60mph in 6th onwards but it’s still there and difficult to tune out mentally. And every single time you let off the throttle you get the (admittedly very cool) burble sound which after the thousandth time of the day starts to wear. But definitely not as bad as the usual stuck-in-traffic driving where I can’t avoid the bad rpms in first and second gear. To make things worse my other half has started to complain about it. Outside of the car the sound is perfect, not too bad. If I could sound proof the cabin better it’d be perfect, but it would be an uphill battle to reduce sound of this low a frequency without adding 300 lbs.
Still I think I’ll leave it on the car. My stock exhaust is still at the shop that did the gearbox and made the swap, I have been thinking to ask them to put it back on at least until I get the car to Europe. Just seems like too much trouble at the moment. But I do miss the stock exhaust whenever I’m not being a hooligan on the road. This thing would’ve been awesome if it had valves to switch between “let’s have some fun” and “I have a headache leave me alone”.
Anyway, put the winter tires on. In Soviet Russia, tire mounts you. Or something.
http://www.greenringer.net/various/changing.jpg
I also had a 991 C4 GTS for a week and found it simultaneously awesome and disappointing. Awesome to sit in, drive and listen to but the sensation of speed is disappointing. It just doesn’t feel that quick. I did a couple runs on my usual stretch and 100-160 km/h it put in exactly the same time as my RS4. But the 911 was using 2nd-3rd and my RS4 only 3rd. But it had PDK so shift time almost negligible.
60 to 160 km/h I used 1-2-3 in the 911 which started off at high revs and banged in the shifts but only 8 tenths faster than my RS4 which only used 3rd gear and started off at a low and slow 3000rpm. On the whole they are extremely equally matched in a straight line when ignoring shift time. But the Porsche weighs considerably less and with an advertised 430 crank it should not be at a power disadvantage to my lightly modded Audi. I thought it would be faster.
Line them up and run them to 120+ and the 911 would be many car lengths ahead but because it’s not really faster in gear the sensation of speed isn’t what you would expect given the acceleration numbers. I do think that simply opting for a manual gearbox would help. And getting a rear wheel drive model with the bucket seats rather than AWD and 18-way adjustable units made of lead. Hard decision really with the 991.2S listed for not much more money. I’m sure that one will FEEL properly fast, but not be quite as sweet and true as the old 3.8 NA. Why does there always have to be a trade-off to these things.
Performance testing. Car is back how it was when I got it a year ago in terms of tires plus the weather has gone cold so I can compare gains vs stock now. Same stretch of road as always.
It’s also running 5w30 oil again for winter, which will make a very small positive difference.
3000-8000 best time 7.25s (7.2 on dash stopwatch)
https://youtu.be/-LmObYFf50o
That’s 0.8 seconds better than fully stock. Doesn’t sound huge I guess but it is a 10 percent decrease in time which is rather decent for an NA car with only an exhaust and tune. The old time was done at -8C and this was only about -1C so it’s more than fair.
I had a 10 Hz GPS logger with me in the car and that data gave me some more results.
60-100 4.75s
http://www.greenringer.net/various/vbox100.jpg
30-60 2.35s
http://www.greenringer.net/various/vbox3060.jpg
40-80 3.98s
http://www.greenringer.net/various/vbox4080.jpg
I did a moderately aggressive launch with too low revs and got a 1/8 mile time of 8.05s at 90.25 MPH (91.something actual terminal speed) but I have no idea how that compares to any other cars as I only see quarter mile results here.
http://www.greenringer.net/various/vbox18.jpg
This evening I went back to find the road emptier to attempt a full quarter mile run with the GPS logger but unfortunately some old problems surfaced with the “launch assist” kicking in during first gear accel. This was with a fully manual launch, it still ruined every run I tried. It was OK with the slower one but when I try a faster start and revs go up a little quicker it’s a no go. I’ll be asking them to give me a file with the LA disabled I guess. Otherwise I think the car is running as well as it possibly could given the limited modifications.
I also used a bluetooth OBDII logger to get some more data into the videos, will come in handy for track sessions.
Just ask them to fix that launch assist thing ? Or is it proving difficult? Launch assist works very well generally.
Your 1/8 was on pace for 12.43@114 mph. Pretty solid. Mph us quite high, likely because you’re down hill 6 feet (about - 1%) Leaving et (time) on the table with the launch (probably two tenths there alone) and maybe the shifts could be quicker but that won’t be drastic for et as they’re not bad.
You can see on the shifts you’re losing speed. Shifts are about 0.4 seconds. Super fast is 0.2 or so. If you can snap off 0.25 second shifts you won’t really lose speed until the 3-4 and even then not much.
Actually having watched the video those are good shifts. You’re not losing much with that but you should definitely turn off the traction. You’re only stage 1 off there, not fully off. Flashing is stage 1. Solid is fully off. Hold for 3.8 seconds for fully off.
I think the problem is that there is something not quite the same in non-US cars that trips up the LA. Which is probably difficult to fix for them when all you have is reports from overseas and no car to troubleshoot it on. Jake was aware of it when I asked right after the flash but I’ve not followed up and not heard back as it’s probably low priority for everyone involved.
I really don’t need LA for anything so it stops interfering that’d good enough for me.
I know about the TC, I was at a light which was about to turn green and didn’t think I had the 5 seconds required to get it fully off. But I thought blinking means TC off and solid is TC and ESP both off. I need to turn off TC or else it kicks in briefly reducing power after each shift.
For some reason I was barely able to do any good 3-4 shifts yesterday missing 80% of them. I believe my shift linkage is seriously out of whack since the box was removed twice. No grinding but the mechanism itself is very notchy. The box and diff mounts did tighten it up nicely but it’s still “off” with the gear lever angled too much to the right in 3rd and 5th from what I cal tell. I had a new OEM shift knob/boot installed as well and since then the parking sensors don’t come on anymore when selecting reverse so that’s another reason to open it up.
yeah, the 3-4 you missed in the video was pretty solid lol.
Seemingly the easiest shift in the whole box (straight back) it seems to be the most common run ruiner for most people.
I have to say, now that it got cold outside, the mods made this car pretty quick. It’s almost savage over 6000RPM now.
I had a Bentley CGT V8S press car for a week, which is just a torque monster, but after I gave it back I drove the RS4 again and it didn’t feel slow at all by comparison. If anything it felt quicker once the RPMs were high enough. The drone still annoys the living heck out of me in slow traffic, but it’s damn nice when you get to be a bit of a hooligan.
I also went and bought a Cayman GTS yesterday. Somewhat disappointed by the lack of emotion in the 991s I tried, I’ve gone for “slow but fun” here. Well, as slow as a 1350kg car can be with 340 horsepower. Part of my decision was based on the fact that the 981 ECUs have been cracked and there’s a lot of potential in the 3.4 once you get rid of the restrictions Porsche has purposefully put in. 50whp gains are possible with fairly easy mods. Picking it up when I’m back in Russia in late Jan.
This means the RS4 will head to Europe in spring and I should get it on track finally and experience the car’s performance in more than one dimension.
Also, happy new year.
To add to the above… 3000-8000 in 3rd takes 6.8s at -13C. Pretty amazing.