**JHM 3 Liter Build**

B6 A4
#1

Hey Guys!

First off I want to thank the guys at audirevolution.net for letting us post our progress up here in addition to providing a great place for the 3 liter revolution to grow. I didn’t know what to expect when they told us that we could direct people to use their photo and video site to discuss everything they wanted to about the 3 liter… and now look at all the information up here! Even though we’re advertisers on Audizine and we appreciate the enormous amount of attention we’ve received there, we would prefer to display our progress for you guys here first since everyone on AR.net has been so positive and enthusiastic about the 3 Liter program.

Secondly, I want to thank motorsports916 for stepping up to the plate big time and leaving his car with us for practically as long as we needed it. Thanks again.

With that being said, let it begin. We received this 2002 Audi A4 3.0 V6, tiptronic, quattro at our shop last Thursday:

http://jhmotorsports.com/gallery/images/IMG_4e0167cfd9f80.jpg

http://jhmotorsports.com/gallery/images/IMG_4e0167bd12cac.jpg
The plate frame adds HP.

http://jhmotorsports.com/gallery/images/IMG_4e01621ba78b1.jpg

We took some baseline data right away and immediately got to work on testing things out. Our plans for this car are: JHM 3 Liter ECU tune, JHM 3 Liter TCU tune, 034/JHM modified phenolic intake spacers.

As far as our goals for this entire platform go, we’re ready to take it as far as you guys want. Right now we’re also working on exhaust (downpipes and a cat-back), an upgraded clutch and flywheel setup, and loading our store with OEM parts and maintenance items for these cars. We’re trying to have all of these things happen as soon as possible and the exhaust and clutch should be coming out shortly after the tune.

As we’ve mentioned before, we are super excited to see all of the interest that this topic has generated already. So as far as we are concerned, the sky is the limit on these cars. We’ve already done some of the preliminary research and explored fitment options and it looks like both supercharging and turbocharging are doable.

Thanks again to AR.net for letting us post up here. We’ll keep you updated as things progress!

#2

hey, I know that car!! Cant wait to see what you guys have in store for us 3.Slows :wink:

I have a sneaking suspicion, we wont be known as that for much longer!

#3

The title of this thread put a big grin on my face, I’ll definitely be checking daily for updates! I don’t see how I will be able to resist buying any upgrades JHM makes for us :stuck_out_tongue:

#4

Very excited to see how far this goes. I would love to see what a JHM supercharged 3.0 could do. I also don’t think I could resist buying JHM parts for my car. + thanks to motorsports916 for leaving his car. You are our hero.

#5

Very well said, as well as a big thanks for motorsports916 for his contribution. As the owner of the site if we continue to get lots more 3.0 guys maybe ill put together a meet at a central race track for all the guys to come to.

#6

I’ll be following this thread :)…I gave up looking for stuff for my tip 3.0, and was
realy close to swaping in 2.7tt, but im gonna keep saving my pennies. and wait for you
guys to start doing tunes for the public…Good Luck

#7

thanks for the thread. Very exciting.

I think thats a smart move to wait and see whats comming for the 3.0. If the 3.0 tune is like My S5 tune you guys are in for a treat

#8

Hello Everyone,

My name is Dan and I was sent over here from Audizine…thank god lol. I am very excited to see what is to come. I own a 2002 6speed. I was hoping to supercharge my car when I bought it back in November but after reading about the tuning issues I was a bit dissapointed. I always knew this car had a lot of potential and I can’t wait to see what can be done.

#9

Welcome Dan, good to see another one has been saved. :slight_smile:

There is lots of great information on the site and more coming everyday. Feel free to ask ANYTHING as thats what this site is for.

From what It looks like, there is lots of interest in a REAL 3.0 program. I don’t see why the current JHM blower couldn’t make its way onto the 3.0 motor if there is interest.

#10

f’n awesome.

just posting here to say i’m on board with whatever happens :slight_smile:

I’m really hoping for some forced induction action, been reading Maximum Boost by Corky Bell and I’m just drooling over the concepts.

Shoot-the-Shit Thread
Shoot-the-Shit Thread
#11

If a SC does come in the works, do you think we’d be using the same Vortech blower that the 4.2 uses? Since that blower is only being run at say ~60% capacity on the 4.2 would we need a small blower for our cars?

#12

^I would say the largest determining factor is what internals you guys have and what changes they made to the internals when they mid-production. If you have internals like the A6 4.2 & 2.7tt then you can pump about 80-100hp/cyl, if they’re not that beefy, then I’d imagine a slightly smaller blower “might” be used. But who knows really. Not I!

It’s fun to think about, but I think we really really far away from f.i. on this platform just yet. Granted this platform could move much much faster then the S4 platform did to develop since all the groundwork has been done. But I know you remember how long it’s taken for it to come together.

#13

I appreciate all your guys’ thanks, but its not deserved. i know how many 3.0s are out there, and I just so happened to be one of the closest guys to JHM to lend a vehicle.

I, too, think F/I is a ways a way. Based on some people accounts, you gotta blow up a good amount of motors until you find what you can/cant do. For now, I cant wait to feel the difference with the ECU tune, the TCU tune, and the Intake Manifold spacers. :slight_smile:

#14

As long as the blower doesn’t fall out of the higher efficiency islands it should be fine to use the larger blower. Since the blower is mechanically connected to the motor by a belt and gears (in the blower housing) lag really isn’t an issue so you can get away with running a bigger headunit on the smaller displacement.

So main thing is to determine the airflow goal at peak rpm (based on the power level the final goal is), then see if a tie line veritcal from that airflow level goes through the higher efficiency islands (on the compressor map)… if it does then there is a decent chance the blower is a good fit. It’s tough to place the boost level (measured by pressure ratio) because that will be very dependent on the intake and exhaust setup, it has to be determined on the car.

It’s safe to say though that the 3.0 will run a higher boost level at the same airflow as the 4.2. So to achieve the 420ish whp the JHM Blown S4s are putting out at 6-6.5psid the 3.0’s will probably need 8-10psid. Thankfully since the 3.0 has a lower static compression ratio (10:1), the effective compression ratios of both are rather similar.

Motor…Static Compression Ratio…Boost…Effective Compression Ratio
…4.2…11.1:0…6.5…15.9:1
…3.0…10.0:1…9.0…16.1:1

#15

^The lower compression of the 3.0 is a great way to start with boost, they’ve got a leg up right there. The bigger unit may even fit with the 3.0 better out of the box. But you may need to add w/m spray at 9psi which is an advantage of the S4’s lower boost right now.

Great info and perspective there beem!

#16

[quote=“beemercer,post:14,topic:2758”]
…this brings me back to my next question. Were are we in the exhaust discussion? Has anyone found a shop that would fab up some proper DP’s? Getting catless ones should be easy to make and would show us what the motor is really capable of. And from there ones with Hi-flow cats could be adapted for those in non-emission friendly areas

#17

[quote=“BCsniper,post:16,topic:2758”]

Are the ones JHM is making not going to be catless?

#18

I would think that the JHM ones would start catless and then if needed you could add cats. Im thinking that the 3.0 guys need the price point to be realistic. Things like a clutch and flywheel where there isn’t much room for cost savings are going to be more expencive. If the Dp’s could be sub 575 for catless I think that is doing good for the 3.0

My thoughts are wait for JHM to test with there build car then see how well it does without cats then go from there.

#19

Hmmm liking the blower talk! The math behind it is rather interesting… it will all come down to how our internals can hold up. For me I’ll really have to see how the first few boltons do, but later on down the road I could see myself being interested in FI.

I was very close to pulling the trigger on the PES kit for awhile, but just couldn’t bring myself to do it. A decision I do not regret at all :stuck_out_tongue:

#20

w/m may be necessary, but it may not. As long as the increase in boost pressure does not place the airflow/boost band into lower efficiency islands (I doubt it will since its a 1200CFM capable headunit), or does not increase blower speed so extremely, then w/m may not be necessary.

The important things to consider:
Power: Dependent only on airflow, the X-axis (hence the independent variable, what you set when you design the FI system)
Boost: Dependent on airflow from the blower, and restrictions beyond the blower. A more restrictive intake/exhaust will increase boost levels while reducing power (hence why boost =/= power)
Heat: The variable discussed here (what would determine the need for w/m injection or intercooling), dependent on efficiency and blower speed. Higher blower speeds and lower efficiency will heat the air more.
Airflow: Dependent on blower speed.
Blower Speed: Dependent on engine speed and the effective gear ratio of the crank pulley, blower pulley and internal step up (the gears in the headunit)

So basically point is you don’t design the system around a boost level, you select a power level you want, figure out an appropriate blower speed, run the blower to speed to determine boost, make sure the boost/airflow intersect is in a good efficiency range (throughout the entire power band, but especially at higher RPM since blower speed will be higher there and so there is a greater benefit to reduced IATs at high RPM with higher efficiency)… if it isn’t in a good efficiency island/s for the majority of the powerband a smaller/larger blower should be used. Boost is just a byproduct of restriction, the blower is better suited as a air mover than a compressor, so you make power by blowing more in. It is useful as a control system though, because you can relieve some restriction by opening the bov/diverter valve to let some ‘boost’ go, but really its bleeding off airflow not so much boost.

Supercharger or turbo