Supercharger or turbo

B6 A4
#1

Ive been reading lots of the 3.0 posts here and on AZ and thank god for this website ;D

There are a few guys who make the idea of going turbo sound so easy. To me they make it sound much eaiser then I think it would be. Ill lay out what it takes to convert to turbo but my question was for the money. say 8k what would you rather do. A PROPER supercharger or a turbo

So If your going to take your 3.0 and go turbo. your going to need AND PLEASE ADD TO OR EDIT

turbos. Now lets not go with the notion that anyone is going to get used turbos. I think you can get a set of cheap china ko4’s for say 1300$

So turbos 1500$
you need inlets 500$
your going to then need up pipes 400$
charge pipes 200$
DV valve 100$
you going to need a different throttle body boot but lets say you can still use your intake manfiold 100$
your going to need the turbo feed oil feed and oil return coolant return 500$
you going to need a install kit 100$
then your going to need turbo manifolds call that 500$
your going to then need new Dp’s so call that 700$ if you make them modifyed
your PCV syustem is going to need to be changed so add another 100$ for that
Then you have to make some kind of y pipe or you can just get a used one from a crashed B5 call that 100$
Then a fueling kit. when you figgure your going to need injectors MAF Vac hoses and lines to go to the waste gates. When you see used B5 fueling kits most people aare askling for about 1500$ then when you put in the fact that this car can’t use that fueling kit and its going to be something that needs to be tuned properly. Lets fuggure 2000$. This encludes any random needed little bits and bolts.

Now I know Im probably forgettign a few things and we also have to reamember that your going to need to pull your motor for this and then tap into the oil and coolant lines. Then tap into the oil pan.

price without I/C’s is 6800$ not too bad when you look at it. Still there are those odds and ends and lots of fabracation and adjusting that needs to be done.

On the other side is say a used PES or lets even throw in the possibilty of the JHM blower kit for the B6 S4 being able to be adapted to the motor with some tweaks. The jhm S4 kit is 7800 complete with fueling kit and it comes with a few things the 3.0 wouldn’t need like a 1000$ oil cooler to remove one of the Aux S4 rads. So there is a chance that the JHM kit could be 6800 as well…

If were talking about getting the most out of the 3.0 the first thing that your going to start with is the exhaust. Dp’s being one of them. clearly if you go turbo your doing tht mod twice. If you stay blower your not wasting that money.

now I know this Thread isa bit eairly in the developemnt of the new up and comming 3.0 platform but I thought I would throw it out there and get some thoughts

#2

I think its is a well balanced post. If you ask me, and I would love to have the members chime in. I think we can pull a good amount of power out of the 3.0 without FI. getting a proper exhaust and looking into getting a larger throttle body along with solid tuning and a few other mods.

Keep in mind that the B6 S4 can get almost 100wtq and 75whp over stock with just bolt on upgrades. This has been shown on a few different cars. Do I think the 3.0 can get the same. Well we can certainly try. The more people that participate in this forum and share there ideas the further along the 3.0 will be.

#3

I personally can’t see myself ever going FI on this car. I have a feeling I’ll be happy with the n/a boltons. That being said it’s interesting to look into. Our engine could make some decent sized turbos spool pretty quickly IMHO.

#4

Thought with the new members I would bring this post back up to the top and see the thoughts of all

#5

This post is a text book open debate. I feel that its a closed debate.

Here are my thoughts.
4cyl motors are always best with turbos.
8cyl motors are in my opinion best suted for the Vortech style blowers. Or blowers for forced induction.

The inline motor is best suted for turbos.
The Big V8 motors are great for TQ so driving a Supercharger isn’t a big deal

When you get into the land of the 6cyl motors things become very inbetween for me.

In line 6. The turbo is a must have.
V6 depending on the size I favor the supercharger. While the supercharger will take power to drive it, the V style motor creates a issue with pluming for the turbos that dosn’t exsist with the supercharger or \SC/

I think the 2.7T is an example of why the 3L motor shouldn’t go turbo. Too much lag and too many issues with boost leaks and just a overall PITA.

You have a 1.5L motor per turbo. Its not exactly a formula for great power. Not only that but the N/A heads on the 3L have big ports. This once again favors the S/C over the turbo for the fact that the heads on the 3L are not best for turbo apps on the exhaust side

Put a SC on a V6 make sure to size it right and watch how much it kicks out. With the proper Gear driven SC there will be no lag and instant boost. Not only that but the boost should be liniar so there are not big issues with doing dammage to components.

#6

^agreed fully…

I posted this elsewhere, but though it’d be relevant here:

#7

Very well put guys.

My vote is for the Vortech blower.

#8

My question out of this is. Let’s say we do go the FI route wouldn’t that be a requirement? Or would the 2.25 sufice for let’s say the blower that’s on the 4.2. The reason I ask this is because a supercharged mustang was getting an exhaust upgrade at the shop. The owner was rambling on about how the bigger diameter would help and give him more HP. I know for turbos this is true. Not so much for a blower though or a N/A motor I know for a fact 2.5 is enough flow for the 3.0.

#9

Great question.

Remember that the exhaust size is a calculation of motor size/Max RPM/CFM(hp). While the hp by CFM plays a issue, the major factors are the motor size and Rpm. The exhaust for all motor 3.0 with a volumetric efficiency of 115% is still going to be safe in the 2.25 zone

Ok so that technical part is out of the way. Yes. if your concerned about the future of the max flow of your exhaust getting a 2.5 is a great idea. This is why the Dps that are getting made for the 3.0 are going to be 2.5.

Generally speaking you don’t want to go too big on exhaust. Rough term explanation. The idea of an exhaust is to quickly corral the exhaust pulses coming out of the motor. You want to have the largest size pipe that doesn’t let the air bend or twist in a different fashion coming out of the motor.

Think of this like a faucet. Ever take the hose off the end of your outside water connection/facet. The water comes out at like 50 different directions and its just a mess. Put a hose on the end of that and the same amount of water comes out in a nice fashion all in the same direction. The same is true with exhaust flow. You want the exhaust to have the largest amount of room while not giving it the ability to go in any direction but the one you choose.

While a 2.5 is a little too big for the all motor non FI Assisted 3.0 adding a X section will help the All motor 3.0 with a 2.5 exhaust. This will help keep the back pressure in check. You need a little amount of back pressure to help keep the exhaust flowing straight. Think of back pressure as the ability to tie one exhaust pulse to another one. This way there each pulling the next one out with it.

Did that explain it good enough

#10

Makes sense. i honestly think the 3.0 would benefit greatly from a supercharger. its just about finding the right blower to work with the motor. im sure this has been covered millions of times though.

#11

It might have been covered a few times but you never know if its been talked about properly. Right now the 4.2 JHM blower would be perfect.

#12

i guess we just have to wait until JHM puts it on the 3.0 to see if it works as good as everyone thinks it would. Cant wait to get this off the ground. lol i can finally buy a podi gauge i have been wanting for so long.

#13

I’d love to see the blower on the 3.0… once they get the belt system down for the 3.0 it should be a bit easier to get one on a timing belt 4.2 :wink:

#14

^^^
That was the issue I’ve been wondering about. Our belt snakes around way more than the serp. belt on the TC 4.2. You wouldn’t think we’d have problems with belts slipping off like they did on the PES kits would you? Also, would we be getting a 6-ribbed belt which would mean we’d need a handful of 6-ribbed pulleys for the engine as well?

These are just thing I’ve been pondering about, and I’m curious to see what the result will be if/when JHM does make a 3.0 SC setup.

#15

I just watched the video for the JHM B6 S4 supercharger and on that they had a 6rib pulley. Im thinking that if they did all that work that there not going to let the belt slip on the 3.0.

The fact that they did a 6rib on the S4 is amazing and just shows why they trully know what there doing.

#16

depending on the clearance between the crank pulley and the radiator a dual pulley system may be the best bet. Kind of like the 3.0T except the blower belt would be on the outside. This would just mean a crank pulley swap and a rather simple tensioner system since it would only need to tension two pulleys (opposed to the 3 the S4 system uses).

Though on the other hand, CountVohn did develop this system for the A6 4.2’s that seems to be using the stock size belt/pulley system on the same belt as the accessories:
http://www.streetfire.net/video/audi-42-performance_148031.htm
He’d have to chime in regarding belt slip etc.