JHM Rs6r turbo. What really is it

B5 S4/ RS4
#41

[quote=“ChrisK,post:28,topic:3891”]
Independent of people sometimes not liking how I come off in opinion posts, I have a pretty impeccable track record of never lying online (and in the rare cases if I accidentally get something wrong, I transparently edit it and admit it). I said I had a conversation with a guy 3 years ago, because simply put, I had a conversation with that guy 3 years ago. To say that I didn’t have that conversation without any reason to actually believe so, is completely baseless. Whatever implications that conversation has regarding this whole RS6 replica cloud of fog is up to whomever is drawing their own conclusions, I’ve only said that I had a conversation with a guy.

Yes they did. People talked a ton about the lack of maps/specs. As a potential consumer I was kinda miffed, but when I looked at it from their perspective, I can’t say that I blame them. And their method of info release/non-release has obviously worked very well for them, just like I’m sure it will with JHM. But people did sniff.

What are his build specs, and what was his time/trap?

#42

So when I build my motor I wanted to throw some new wheels in my OEM rs6 turbos. Kurt, is it possible to get mine modified to be similar to the RS6-R setup for less than the cost of trying to sell mine and buy new ones?

Also, I am very curious if these are from china or not. I know you posted on here that they are not, and in other places, but a lot of people have called you a liar. I really would love to clear your name of this and just prove that you were telling the truth!

Thanks,
-Meow

#43

If you’re serious, I would just call up a reputable turbo shop that can install something along the lines of a BW 2283 wheel. JHM and Kurt have been very private about what wheels are in RS6r’s, but we do know that they are cast (and possibly a variation of the 997 2278 wheel). I know you aren’t on the west coast, but Comp Turbo is very familiar with RS6 hybrid rebuilds, and can get you OEM 2283 wheels (billet). Don’t be in a rush though, as they take their sweet time.

#44

Yes I am serious. This would likely happen next winter when the cars down for rods, I would like to send the turbos out and get the housing bored out for the larger wheels. There are a few local guys who run these turbos, (3 people) and all their cars rip hard. I really like the idea of using my RS6’s to build up a hybrid turbo. Froced Performance is doing one for a friend, and will likely be the place I get them assembled.

What are the difference between the 2283 wheel and the 2278 wheel other than the billet vs cast?

#45

The 2283 is a more efficient design, and is currently the best offering in a BW turbo. The blade design allows it to spool quicker while allowing for more flow at the top end. The 2278 is by no means a bad option, but if I were having the turbos torn apart I would just opt for the best I could get. You can start getting into custom wheels, but unless the company has a known reputation I personally would stick with what is OEM proven. It is doubtful that an aftermarket turbo shop can match the resources of an OEM like Borg Warner.

#46

Yup, I will be going with an OEM proven wheel stuffed into the rs6 housing. Anyone have spool comparison between the three wheels? Stock rs6, 2283 and 2278? Id love to see what each can do for top end flow too. I will be revving out a fair amount (built head).

BorgWarner has some great engineers working for them. I cant wait to start working at BW this July, I wont be in turbos, but it will still be fun.

#47

I’ve tried to find that for ages, but there is a lot that comes into play. We are assuming that all else is equal but the compressor wheels, but that is rarely the case. The CHRA will have much more effect on the actual spool. The information that I have dug up and jotted down in my longtime search is:

RS4 (2078): Inducer: 51mm Exducer: 40mm
C6 RS6 (2275): Rated at 300hp each Inducer: 56mm Exducer: 42mm
997.1 Turbo (2277): ?
997 GT2 (2280): Rated at 330 hp each Inducer: 60mm Exducer: 41mm
S3 8P (2283): Rated at 360 hp each Inducer: 63mm Exducer: 48.5mm

This is what I have compiled through my searching. I caution that these numbers might not be exact, as I do not have access to BW information. But they should give a ballpark and maybe others can chime in if they have any knowledge. The guys over in Europe are much more familiar with the hybrids than the stateside tuners. I received a lot of information from speaking with Simon and Darius over at Loba and they are a fantastic resource for these things.

#48

Great to have you, it’s always fun getting new members. As for your turbos, are they new? Do they have to be rebuilt? In most cases I would say just sell them and start over. The Rs6-r is a turbo that addresses things that even the Rs6 turbo needed addressed.

The JHM Rs6-r turbo is not from china. However, you can go on a broker site and have yourself built a turbo in china but that’s all it would be. It’s not hard to go on anyone’s site and get a turbo list of parts and look to have it knocked off. In most cases china can make stuff with parts that look 100% the same. If, you provide them with pictures. Why? Well there are several places that have molds and there are several places to source key parts IE covers, WG actuators, exhaust housings even shafts. Are some of these places in china, Sure, are they all No. If you know people in china great, however there are some people who know more than just a few people in china.

Take the old RP turbos. I can get you a BW ko4 then a China knock off ko4. You can have a meet tear them both down and they will look 100% the same. Inside and out. The difference is 1 turbo will last 100,000 miles the other one would do well if you made it 10,000. Now 90% of the time you don’t see the difference. Tolerance and materials are two of the main components in keeping a turbo alive. Looking at a cast and a forged control ring, they LOOK the same. Depending on the material and how it was made. That is a big issue. You can’t tell .04 when you look at it. You would be hard pressed to even measure it BUT .03 is enough to walk your turbo into failure. Even things like the shaft are going to be hard to tell as it needs to look a certain way, it needs to be a certain length but there is more to it. Measure the run out on the shaft (something you can’t do by eye) then cut it in ½ send it out to have a internal consistency test.

We control both those aspects and more. As well as make a few parts that the market didn’t support. For instance. The bearings. We didn’t like the consistency of the material. So we made our own. The LOOK 100% identical why? CAUSE THEY HAVE TO be the same shape same length same almost everything. Yet the material gives us better control and MUCH better consistent results. There are several parts in the JHM turbo like that So there isn’t a china turbo that is the same. There are lots of turbos that look the same and that’s fine it’s not hard to copy how the turbos look. The skin and show bits on the turbos are popular production run bits. We get them in non-finial machine forum. I can wait for the next needed batch of turbos and just have a video taken of some of the machine work.

I have been asked by a few people. “Don’t you get mad that people said you’re a Liar”. No lets step back and put more facts out there. Call JHM ask them how much I get paid if they sell a turbo. NOTHING I don’t care if they sell 60 or 600 I don’t make a cent. I started this project over 3 years ago when VASTPERFORMANCE was getting 50 sets of turbos at a time from a tier 1 BW supplier.

The importance of this came After close to 200 Rs6 turbo sales (20% of the overall original Audi BW production run) If you are actually in the automotive market you know it won’t be long before BW jacks up the price. There are rules in producing a car and bringing them to the USA. You need to have a certain amount of stock in replacement parts.

Also, the same people making accusations have to contend with they are motivated in part by money they have parts they want to sell you. I don’t care I’m not here to sell anything. My work has been done for a long time. I’m here to explain what I did 3 years ago.

I actually applaud the people who are calling wolf. That’s what you want people to do if there is fraud. So I have nothing but respect for the guys who think there looking out for the Audi community, IF it’s legitimate. The people that are standing and screaming fire,Fire,FIRE, Good for them. They think they have found something that isn’t ethical. I support that and them. HOWEVER is there call to the public about jhm and the RS6-r and then lesser China Rs6 factual No. The only time this breaks down is when you get the people acting like a 4 year old. People changing up a screen name to mock. Let’s be honest that’s so 4th grade fat kid with no friends desperately looking for a laugh I doubt anyone takes that person serious. It’s hard to believe or even all that funny that people like that would make themselves look like fools all off speculation.

I said it before and I’ll say it again. If someone wants a nice china turbo you can get one for 900$. If you want a unit meant for the larger abuse of high boost, high duty cycle, it’s the RS6-r. When people ask the difference between the LD units, It’s over 1000$ in time, materials, parts and performance.

That being said. This project is over 3 years old. While I know all the people involved and help with direction when needed. I don’t buy or sell these. I’m not tied to these. This was something to help fill a gap and to help bring the market back alive. I’m not a spokes person for JHM I’m someone that helped work with several companies to get this product made. I have given jhm the tools and connections to help bring this. With the difficulty of people being able to tell the difference between the HD JHM units and the LD china units. I have advised JHM to make some adjustments to help protect then and the end consumer. If they do so or not, that isn’t up to me. As Like I said I have been beyond this for quite some time.

Was that helpful? feel free to ask whatever questions you wish.

#49

^^ That’s whats up.

#50

Very good info

#51

what I don’t get is this…how on earth is DxC claiming that he has emails from a Chinaman that say ‘JH called me to tell me to stop selling’. It all seems like a hoax. When you read the self-serving supposed Chinese email conversation, it’s a fucking laugh.

Chinese guy - “JH called and said mean things, so I am no longer able to sell you the turbos you invented, DxC”

DxC - “What? But JHM is copying me though right, remember I invented these right? (wink wink)”

Chinese guy - “Yes, yes you did invent them DxC. You invented them first, but I am cutting you off, and selling them to JH now, exclusively. That’s why this is so hard (sobbing)”

(paraphrased for lulz)

So JHM decided they would throwaway their reputaiton as an elite Audi tuner in order to copy some buttfuck shop’s supposed invention…(a turbo he copied lol)…and then the guy’s own manufacturer is going to agree to sell that guy’s own invention only to JHM !!!

DxC, when confronted with the absurdity of his story said “That’s how it is in China’”

No it isn’t. It’s NOTHING like that. That’s how it is when you’re trying to jam a story down people’s throatsl. Only the silly kids who are selling these turbos for DxC and his 3 buddies are supporting that story, frankly.

I find it convenient that he can’t post the email because he wants to protect the Chinese guy. Wait…he wants to protect the very same guy who just ROYALLY fucked him over, stole his product, and destroyed his turbo selling business. Yeah, you should protect that man lol.

Now, I have just had casual conversations with JHM guys over beers, and as you all know I am just a customer (well I was with my S4…my RS4 is bone stock) , but everything I know about what they’ve been doing , when you compare it to the story from DxC, it’s apparent he is in a fantasy and is trying really hard.

The reality of the situation? He is selling a Chinese made replica turbo. He has no idea what it’s capable of. He has no idea how succesful it will be. He has done no testing. He has only recently, after this story blew up in his face, logged them once…and it’s on a car with stock motor, using an old ass RS6 tune, with stock intercoolers. How on earth is ANYONE listening to this guy when he says what the turos are capable of? If they were $25 a pair (let alone $1800) I wouldn’t put them on my car untested. Fuck no.

Company A: Has had their turbos for a couple of years, has tested them, has revised them, has pushed 28-30 PSI with them, has used industry contacts to get some B&W help with the crucial parts, has put a couple dozen copies on customer beta cars, has given some away in an effort to collect data, has had a couple of cars set near record quarter mile times with them, and is generally regarded as one of the top Audi companies on earth.

Company B: Has done fuck all…showed up 2 years late…claimed his shit is the same as JHM (so he wouldn’t have to test them) and has recently provided an earth shattering (sarcastic) log of them on his nearly stock car because he was under the gun once it was clear he had done ZERO testing of a turbo he claimed to ‘Invent’ years ago.

Yeah, I’m sticking with Company A. Anyone who chooses Company B in this situation needs their head looked at.

#52

ROFL

#53

LOL @ the paraphrased conversation!

From where I’m sitting, I really can’t see which camp is telling the whole story. But the deal with ARD does confuse me and make me question JHM’s setup. Shawn was going to produce his own RS6-based turbo (and had completed products in hand), and I was told that he was originally affiliated with the distrubutor of JHM’s RS6-R. But now he bows out and markets a Chinese turbo to help JHM save face.

Interesting, to say the least.

#54

I dont see it as that from what ARD says he was helped by CV to find a distributor to find a cheap alternative for RS6 turbos and thats what your getting from him. I mean he said that exactly as thats what his turbos were. Something that wasnt tested on a few cars with high boost and something that doesnt have the R&D hours put into it that JHM does. I may just be jumping on the bandwagon here but i never had problem with vast either which is why i continued to give them my business up until they closed. Seemed to me a lot of there products had miles on them and were proven. I had clutches, tunes and many other products from them and Mike was always very quick to answer and straight up with his answers. Same kind of business ive gotten from Jason and the rest of the JHM crew which is why i will continue to buy there products. Where DXC’s or ARD’s phone number if i ever had a problem with an install or anything to that matter.

#55

Exactly, ARD is saying that NOW. But a couple of months ago, they were planning to release their own turbo that would outflow an RS6-R and be priced around $2800. But now with the JHM issues, they suddenly scrapped all plans and are selling a turbo that is a claimed Chinese version of what JHM is selling. I saw a picture of the turbo ARD was producing, it wasn’t just some idea in the sky. But now, it’s nowhere to be heard of (apparently).

I want to believe that RS6-R’s are a quality option as well, as I have and will continue to buy parts through JHM. But to me, the stories just don’t line up.

#56

I think this is what confuses people. Let me explain. CV helped me after the vast fall out when vast copied my parts and I left the relationship he helped me land on my feet. The JH Motorsports project was the RS6. CV knew that between ARD and all my connections I had a deep list of people that I could tap into to help get the first few sets of RS6 turbos tested. I… and let me repeat… I made up the name RS6 X for Experimental. So sorry DXConman your about two years and 30 turbos too late.

The RS6 turbos started out in LD (light duty) trim. After the first rounds of testing it was clear that if you wanted to run big boost and higher shaft speeds they were going to need to change several things. It was at that point that we realized the first revised version would make a great LD unit for OEM+ Replacement. The great thing was this is where I was able to fit in more. As CV knew there was going to be a large market for a LD OEM Replacement turbo. Truth is overseas there is a much larger market for a OEM+ replacemet parts. If you look at how many performance turbos you sell here and how many OEM+ replacement turbos you can sell overseas its 2:1.

At the same time CV (As I understand it) needed to keep his promise of bigger production numbers going. So he pressed out 20 LD units for sale and 10 HD units for testing. The LD units I was able to sell and were sold overseas as OEM+ replacements. Still at this time not made in china

So after version two came out and all the testing was done. It was apparent that it was going to be a little harder then everyone expected to make a HD RS6 turbo. From there custom parts needed to be made. Other changes were done and the modern day RS6-R turbo was made. My place in all this is that I’m able to sell the LD units and when there is a test idea to help push the RS6-R turbo to the next level I’m still part of it. There is the RS6 Terminator turbo. This is something that isn’t tested and falls in line with what I was doing the entire time. I have Access to the test turbos that might make it to tomarrow for JH Motorsports. This is something that zero tolerance and a few others have been told about and that is in testing today. It wont get consideration till it actually does something

If you didn’t know JH Motorsports beta tests all there stuff. Look at there Supercharger program. Its been tested for over two years without a big party. This RS6 turbo is no different.

So what happened to the LD units. Well that one is simple. When the RS6-R turbo was finished the LD units were taking too much time to build and it was interfering with the HD units getting built and out on time. So that program got farmed out. There is still a minimum requirement that needs to be obtained but that and the parts are able to get sourced and made in china without being an issue for the overall unit. Its a LD unit and as Ive said for what it is it works great. IF you are looking to pass it off as a RS6-R then your going to end up looking bad as its not

#57

Great info CV and ARD. My quote of the week:

“Its been tested for over two years without a big party.”

#58

…and I certainly don’t mind testing out new stuff when possible. :smiley:

#59

Your a classic example. Didn’t I say like 50x this was a JH Motorsports turbo but you couldn’t talk about it. We talked over and over about how it was something with a little extra but this was for testing and that you would be happy.

Your getting support of JH Motorsports it was made clear this was a JH Motorsports turbo and this wasn’t something that we wanted you to talk about openly. Not only that but we started your project how long ago?

#60

Yes, absolutely. This all started about eight months ago now…