LHD Stage1 & 1+ S/C RS4 shortly to be

B6/7 S4/RS4
#41

Cheers Rudi,

I think there’s a few of us waiting to see how Jimmy does it. In an ideal world id like to use it both chill the cabin and the engine. Also which option is the one to go for? The A4 turbo version or the universal; whats the difference between the 2?

James
[/quote]
The A4 turbo kit cools both the cabin and intercooler water.

The drag option kit with the A4 turbo kit normally cools both the cabin and intercooler water but you can switch the drag option kit valve so that it stops cooling the cabin until you switch it back. It is a simple toggle switch.

#42

Cheer Jimmy. That makes sense now. The other question i have is that, as i’m permanently in a hot climate should i remove the heat exchanger?

James

#43

James,

In your case I would since you probably have the AC running constantly. However if your AC compressor dies or your AC system isn’t working properly than you will lose the cooling effect of the Killer Chiller setup. The RS4s were always really reliable for the AC system IMO though. With the heat exchanger in the circuit then the water temps will be 10 to 15 degrees F hotter than without (according to Kincaid Performance). They do discuss using a water bypass valve for the heat exchanger to stop the water flow through the heat exchanger at times. I am starting to really consider installing a electrically controlled water bypass valve so that I can swap between using the AC or not. The reasoning behind this is because the B6/7 S4 AC compressors fail pretty regularly and I don’t want to be driving around with no AC and no heat exchanger for the intercooler water.

#44

Good point jimmy im looking forward to your right up on this.

#45

So back after a while…Car is ready, S/C stage 1+ is revving and making a really nice sound. Some slight issues we faced during the installation but got over them with a bit of thinking. I will be posting pictures and the timeline of events in due course.

Flashed the car, played 4-5 days with it and returned to workshop for check. Some rattling from the intercooler which was solved by making a rubber support.

Havent gone yet to a dyno to measure and get figure. aiming to do so end of next week.

Now what I wanted to ask are the following 2 questions.

  1. Car revs almost to the 9000 mark (went up to 8500 once). I will be talking again to JHM to ask them to make some modification to the tune to keep it to 8250. Where I am, roads are usually slippery and revs (with the current rate) pick up very quickly which i consider its not very safe for the car. Any ideas or experience with this ??

  2. On WOT everything in lightning fast without a glitch to the red line, on a steady speed with 4th gear specifically and 6000 rpm there is a bit of “stutter” (dont know how else to describe it). We did a throttle body adaptation just in case but its still a bit there, which kindly makes me think that I need to check the fueling details of the tune. Again any idea on this one?

As a note the mixture readings we checked with the log are very safe even at high rpms…well done on this, but maybe the tune can be improved over certain rev range, and when you dont want to go fast and cruise maybe the tune can be further optimised -just guessing. I dont know.-(will be talking with the guys again once I get all the readings/dyno charts/mixture measurements) to present a full case. I think my car is the only Stage 1+ in Europe as JHM hadnt encountered the boxset (checksum?) data before.

Overall super excited so far, but a bit nervous with the rev limiter case…

(and the sound is awesome!)

#46

This is great to hear that the car is running and you have it back in your hands.

You posted a few questions so Ill share what I know from actually helping install kits from both stage 1 and 2 on S4s and Rs4s.

question 1

Stock the RS4 has whats called over rev. Its part of the rev limit that lets you extend past the oem 8100 to about 8300. The stock ecu will let this happen if the motor is moving fast enough so you dont actually hit the rev limit. From my understanding and what I have heard JHM extends the over rev limit to 8450 from the stock 8250 to help give you a few more RPM so if your really hard on the car and take the car into the upper rpm limit that you can shift right after 8k and not hit the rev limit due to how fast the motor is spinning. Also if your looking at the stock tach it can be hard to gauge the actual rev rpm and unless you are looking with vag com its hard to get the exact rpm

#47

Sorry I am making two posts to answer your question it was just easy to post and go back and read.

Question 2.

On your side note you mentioned that the fueling was safe and spot on in the tune so it would kinda remove your thoughts that it might be tune related.

Im not sure how you hold a steady speed at 6000rpm in 4th gear but mph wise that just sounds impressive. Im trying to understand what your doing in 4th gear at 6000rpm for the need to hold a steady speed but if im understanding your post are you trying to keep the rpms at 6000 like your just crusing in 4th at 6k… If your not climing in the rpm and say your on the autobahn crusing at 6k and you come off the throttle or try to hold throttle your diverter valve is going to be cracking open and shut with even the slightest of change in throttle input.

Still just to be safe the biggest questions that come up would be did you get your injectors serviced. The injectors on the FSI cars are starting to show serious issues past 50k miles and harmful issues past 80k miles on even lightly moded cars if they dont get serviced.

#48

and my 3rd post to finish up my attempt to help shed some light.

First off… if your going to dyno the car know a few things. Each dyno is different so kinda know that going into this. Also from the growing list of guys who have dynoed the cars you should be well over 450whp but as you mentioned the JHM tune is safe and if you try to put the car hot on the dyno its going to go into protection mode. If you dyno the car make sure you check your intake air charge temps and water temps to make sure they are in line with ambient temps. Putting a RS4 on the dyno and not running the cooling fans on the car for about 25 min is going to give you a heat soaked car and a car that is going to be pulling out power to keep it safe. If you cant check your water temps and blower temps I would suggest getting that ability to do so before you dyno.

The other thing I know the JHM guys are always really receptive to feedback but remember this. This kit has to be one of the most popular and most powerful kits on the market. There are kits all over the world so there is a good chance that they have gotten data already and optiomized it. Still gathering data is a good thing to share with them

I cant stress enough if your going to gather data just make sure you know and understand the conditions the car is in and what outside influence is impacting the car. Keep us posted and let see some pics.

Great job on this thanks for keeping us updated

#49

Hey Justin thank you very much for the 3 posts. So…

For post 1 what you said is clear. And again i am not revving over the 8000rpm mark but due to the road surface the car spins so it revs due to spinning. Just want to ensure that i will have no issue with rods or crankshaft due to revving.

For post 2. Of course I am not cruising at 4th gear at 6000 rpm, but I was merely testing the car throughout the rev range…for example in all gears it seems way smoother when you coast around 3000-4000 rpm. I am trying as a test to keep a steady relatively high but constant rpm to see how the car reacts. If I push the car hard on a twisty road there will be a lot of cases that i may need to keep the revs high instead of shifting till the next breaking point. but again it was an observation. I did measure that fuel mixture to be on the safe side…this doesnt necessarily mean its optimal, because i do get some black smoke at the first 2 WOTs and then …it clears. Injectors have been serviced very recently due to the kit arriving. I did ask if it would be prudent to add new ones but after the service/test it showed results as per factory requirements and was advised not to touch them yet.

For Post 3 we will be monitoring the intake temps and that is why we will be needing good air cooling at the front of the car (huge external dyno fans will ensure this is ok). Water temp If I remember varies between 93C to 97C. I am using G12 as cooling fluid. Air intake temp if the car is moving even in hour heat is close to ambient with the charge cooler.

Data gathering is important and of course I will be sharing with you all operating parameters (not just the power figures). pictures will follow shortly

#50

Good feedback.

Just as a note none of my answers were meant to inferr you were right or wrong they are more information.

The slippery road makes sense still keep in mind you dont want to hit the rev limiter at any rpm over 6500 so keep that in mind a higher rev limit is more or less there to try and ensure you never hit it as hitting a rev limit at high rpm isnt good for clutches and other drivetrain parts. You would have to decide if a lower rev limit is better for you and what route makes it safer for you.

On the 6000rpm thing. Yeah sorry I really didnt understand what you were doing. if you are in higher rpm even a slight movement in reduction of the throttle espically past 5000 is going to have an impact on the DV valves and chances are the camshafts. Its almost like your doing a rollin tip in and that can make the car hesitate or shutter.

On the logs or tune…optiomal and safe dont always have the same spot. Its just like the revlimit situation. Remember when you see black smoke out the back on the first two WOT pulls two things are happening. 1 its clearing out all the build up on the plugs and the cylinders and depending on how much black smoke its also trying to cool the motor down as the car uses fuel to cool the cylinder charge. If the car has a heat soak situation for whatever reason the car is going to take the safest route possible first. when you see a rich condition on tip in and it goes away after a few pulls thats what is going on.

As for testing so far 4 out of 4 guys who showed there dyno results for the stage 1+ are in the 500whp range. From 480whp on The S4 to rs4 fan and I dont remember the other members name that were just short of 500whp.

Tip when you dyno make sure to let out a little water and make room for ice. Put ice in the resivware before your first pull.

#51

Ok so after fixing a number of small hick ups we got the car to the dyno

510ps and 52kgm of torque.

These are the worst possible.measurements because of:

  1. 40 degrees C today
  2. Stock exhaust with highly restrictive cats and mufflers
  3. Very rich tune…I mean …Wow! Mixture was running from 10.8 to 10.3 . At WOT it needed the first 2 to clear the black smoke so that you could see results from the 3rd pull. The tune needs some serious ammendment to be optimal. At half acceleration the car was drawning from fuel. I took lots of log data to send to jhm and ask for modification. I know on Tuesday with my new exhaust (de-cat and 2.75 inch all the way) there will be some.significant improvement but still …tune is rich!

Impressed with the figures specially on such a hot day here. No doubt the product delivers what it says on the package but it can definitely get better!

And by the way …the rev limiter is at 8500. The rev needle is not calibrated and it show’s close to 8800.

Umh.I tried to upload photo of dyno run but it says upload folder full …what am.I doing wrong?

#52

Oh …fyi the figures are wheel power measurements …not crank

#53

To upload pictures
http://audirevolution.net/addons/albums/images/123636533.jpg

As for the tune you need to stand back for a second and think about something. its 104F temp wise not to mention what the temps are at the motor once on the dyno and your on the stock exhaust with cats at those temps… There is a very very very good chance that The tune is PROTECTING YOUR MOTOR so you absolutly do not want to have tune adjusted to compensate for the temps being too hot and your exhaust being possibly restrictive. obviously when you go back with the updated parts it should result in a change but remember the hotter your intake and EGT temps are the richer your car will run to cool the motor down thats how it works to save the motor…

Now after you get the new exhaust put on I would go back and test again If its still rich then you would need to log but given those figures

Ps translates to hp pretty close so 510ps is 502whp thats impressive for the conditions. very impressive.

#54

I mean, if you put your car on a dyno when the temperature is 40°C(104°F) you’re kinda asking for trouble because of the conditions you’re running your car in. The tune was trying to cool down the engine.

#55

X2. I would be a little concerned if the car wasnt running richer in much hotter conditions and considering it sitting on a dyno and still made 502whp… Thats impressive.

#56

Seeing my Friend’s Rudy’s update time to say also a couple of things for the car…first HUGE public thank you to Rudi for guidance/advise/chatting and comparison between our cars…ones’ thoughts may as well be the others

Got the full free flow exhaust installed on the car Full 2.75" from dps all the way back to the end. Converted the cat housing into a small free flow muffler, added 2 bigger mufflers towards the back to absorb some sound and installed the factory exhaust flap system to the end free flow mufflers. reason for all this sound absorption is that I put my baby son in the car and I wanted to be able to sleep. With the mufflers on “off” position the car is running almost like stock sound with no resonance at all.

The effect on the car was minimal on power…got +5 at very peak whp, but saw gains up to +18 across 3000-7000 rev range and I earned about 2 kgm/nm of torque in the same rev range. the car revs up way more happily, it lost that back-pressure effect feel but it runs way better and smoother all the way to almost the top. Condition were about 35 C so similar and comparable conditions. key note to say is that the previous time in each WOT attempt the bhp was dropping (we did 4). In this case rock steady same results with all 4 WOT tests.

Car has about 3000 fast driven kms since installation including 2 long trips (about 1500 total). Fuel consumption on motorway with speeds between 160-200 kms/h was around 15.5 lt/100 kms and within the city around 16 lt/100 kmw

it is apparent that the tune was developed with a free flow exhaust in mind and it shows. just by removal of restrictions the afr changed from 10.2 to 11.5…11.8. the tune has improved 100% from the previous run with the old exhaust on leaving a small margin between 7000-8500 where it could be improved.

significant “victims” so far include but not limited to (bhp claimed from owners): RS6 C5 with exhaust/tune (730bhp), 997TT stage 1 (560bhp), tt-rs around (520bhp) and a heavily tuned subaru with a 3071R running meth (-350 kg in weight at least…470 whp) which did 1 car pull on 2nd gear…caught him up on 3rd…overtaken at 4th

so far so good!!! …i am looking fwd to Rudy’s Killer Chiller project for results…he leads…I follow :stuck_out_tongue:

#57

Great update nice to hear. A good free flowing exhaust always helps and its good to know where the stock exhaust becomes restrictive as your dyno results obviously show the range.

Great idea adding a little more sound restriction for the little one. I would be interested to know if that was done before or after the dyno testing. It would be interesting to know if even more flow would have helped give a little more power but gains of 18+ in the 3-7 range really are impressive.

All that power and better fuel mileage. What a nice plus.

Again the AFR results after the exhaust are letting you know the tune was actually doing its job. If you create a restriction like a stock exhaust with cats will do at that hp level the car is going to run richer to keep the motor safe and with all the power you were making its obvious from your results that the car needed to run richer to keep the motor safe.

SO by adding an exhaust at that power level you actually helped make the motor safer. The RS4 makes about 300whp stock so adding another 200whp is going to be too much for just about any stock exhaust.

That kill list is very very impressive.

#58

just reading your thread and saw this. we are very much on the same page. The pistons are the 1st point and then from my research the rods. Still trying to find out what else needs to changed.

#59

yes…same here…still in search of information on this. I think that i have kinda finalised that the resulting compression ration should be 9:1 from the 12.5:1 that it is now. other than that…not much information around and jhm has not released any further information on this one.

as to the question why do you want to do it? …the answer is “for the fun of it”

is it true that the max pressure the particular S/C can function is 28 psi??? if yes now that it works at 9 …it is just sleeping

Saki, Justin…any info you can add on this?

#60

…while we are at it…anyone knows if the JHM tune has flatshift capability? it used to have launch control which the guys removed it (would be nice to have for the occasional traffic light start up)