I need more power- meth possible?
Yes, EC makes the spacer for under the blower… I reached out to them and they wouldn’t sell me one nor share specs… My brother wants to make them but we need to get some time to yank the blower and I want the TTRS first so I have something to play with while the S4 is down… Still not positive I am going to do it because not sure I want to yank the blower if the APR one is close… I get the impression it will be late this year so will see… If I do it, I’ll take orders and sell them as cheaply as possible as long as I can recoup material costs and my brothers labor… Nice that I can say and offer that up on here… lol
It doesn’t seem to involved to make spacers… I’m highly considering this. Maybe we can make this happen together. We have to talk about this- could be awesome running the race file with pump 93 + meth.
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Making them is the easy part… designing them is the fun and hard part… lol I showed my brother the EC pics and he said they would be easy and he already makes them for several mustang models and uses phenolic to make them out of which is great material… He also would like to make them once and if I go to the new blower they need to be remade… I will 100% make them when I go with the 1.74L Blower will be off so it’s a no brainer then…
If you run a race file and run pump gas with meth, let me know so I can call euroswagr to bring his big ford truck to tow your car home.
I’ll run race and meth… I’ll have a tune also, right Arin… LOL
Someone educate me: why should one even consider running the race file with 93+meth? Aren’t they completely different? Like E85?
What’s the problem with doing that? Can you fill me in, I was under the assumption that all the B5 guys did that as well as the 2.0 guys. What would be the potential issues?
the maps for a meth file and a race gas file are not the same.
B5 guys who run meth are tuned for meth. Not for race gas. There are many characteristics of meth + pump vs. race gas that would leave you not wanting to intermingle files. That’s what I believe, but perhaps I’ve got it wrong.
Gotcha- well your probably right then bc didn’t know much about the subject. Thanks Saki
As I understand it, you’ve got your pump files which have a certain amount of ‘ask’ from the car, and do so within the safe confines of what the octane can handle.
Then you have your meth + 91 or meth + 93 files where the car is tuned for meth as a fuel source and parameters REQUIRE meth to be present (i.e. if you run out of meth and are now just running pump, and just keep pushing the car, you end up with problems). The ‘ask’ levels are much higher than a straight pump file, but not quite what a race file would ask for.
Then you have race gas files which ask even more of the car, and are generally safe with 100 octane race fuel.
Then you even have race+ files which demand a certain type of race fuel (i.e. the APR 104 file that many guys here are running).
Hopefully someone chimes in to confirm or correct me.
So the next question for a daily driver - which would be (a) more of a PITA and (b) more expensive to run - race gas or pump+meth?
Methanol/water injection won’t give you any power…you will actually lose power if used without a tune because that water meth is taking up the space of air.
The idea is that you will be able to use more boost, without going pig-rich, and thus make more power. The water and methanol “soften” the charge air, if you will, by providing a nice thermal buffer, which resists detonation. Water and methanol absorb 2-3 times more thermal energy than gas, thus it is a much better medium for detonation-resistance than just going pig-rich and washing down the cylinder walls (a la REVO with AFR in the 10s).
Guys with big 30 psig turbo setups usually can’t run maximum boost without race gas, so a lot of them use water/meth on the street. We’re already at maximum boost on 93 tune…so the only thing we can do is advance the ignition timing…but not likely as much as race gas would.
The beiinefficientficientitstittietittitsbreasteses of water/meth will likely be more apparent if stage III ends up being boost-limited on 91/93 tune, which I’d say is likely.
Anyway, all of this is useless for our 3.0T, without a tune. Why?
1.) Most water/meth systems are boost-proportional. This works great for big turbo setups, where power is more proportional to boost, but not so much for positive displacement setups like ours. In our car, 17 psig is achieved from 3000-7000 rpm, and thus it would simply feed methanol at a fixed rate at WOT. Not good. You could just feed water/meth for the worst condition and hope for the best, but you’ll be throwing away lots of power at 3000 rpm, by being at least one point too rich AFR.
We’d need a water/meth MAP, based on load and intake mani pressure, optimally. So we’d need a tuner for that…and FWIW, I don’t know if you could wire in the extra outputs to the ECU, a piggyback (like the BMW 335 guys run) is usually more mass-market friendly for that sorta thing.
2.) You’d want a safety such that when you run out of water/meth, you car goes back to a regular tune or goes into limp mode until you switch the tune. I could think of a few ways of forcing limp mode with the current ECU programming by tripping a sensor or two, but it’s not really the ideal setup.
It’s too bad stage III won’t come with the extra bosses for water/methanol injection already. Maybe, rather, they will give us an E85 tune after all…
LOL…and that’s all I have to add
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Can’t say this enough lol
Not right
If you used a w/m system that referenced injector duty cycle, you could easily reduce the amount of fuel to the injectors while adding w/m to the mix. In no way would you be spraying enough w/m to displace a notable volume of air(charge).
Tuning would be slightly more technical, you wouldn’t be tuning to add more boost, you would be tuning to increase or optimize the timing curve to a point which gives you best torque. The timing curve you could run with w/m would be much more aggressive and prone to knock, the w/m would aid in resisting knock
So I repeat my above reply “Not Right”
Why not lean the tune out with more air vs reduced fuel? Either way I agree a tune will be needed to take real advantage… I would love too see logs from the dude that sprays… Paper, hook us up with some logs from your buddy…
See, things are different with the blower. We don’t need to run aggressive timing or to lean out to spool the turbo up like your motor, so with w/m there is no beinefficientit there and I’d argue it’s simply better to play it safe. The supercharger doesn’t care what comes out of the exhaust, while your turbo would like the advanced timing and leaner hotter exhaust.
But for sure, you are tuning for more boost, more timing, or a little of both. There are many situations where you couldn’t run the boost you want without knock unless you use either higher octane, retarded timing, or w/m (or run rich). Maybe I’m missing your point. If you increase your resistance to knock with w/m, you could definitely add boost (if any more is possible), advance timing, or lean out, or a little of all.
The main point was none of this is possible without referencing load somehow (sure injector duty cycle could work, but we have no access).
I don’t understand how you have no access, running a parallel wire to one of the injectors would give you reference.
Boosted cars, both sc and tc like additional timing, I understand that the sc doesn’t rely on exhaust volume or heat, but to say that an sc car wouldn’t react favorably to timing changes would be untrue
Many Mustang guys with factory chargers use w/m with great success, I don’t see why it shouldn’t be the same for a late model Audi with a factory charger, heck the E9x M3’s love w/m when combine with a charger
Quick Read about pos dis charge and w/m
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/a93/Can-I-Spray-Water-Methanol-Injection-Through-My-Eaton-Supercharger/article_info.html