My Tial 605 melt down!!!!!

Jibber, I never said anything about EPL or anyones boost sensor.

You essentially said that the spool shown on EPL’s dyno plots isn’t realistic, which I thought meant that you thought that their boost data is skewed (kinda like how all of the V8 guys on here think their dyno data is skewed). If that’s not what you meant, then ignore what I said about the sensors.

Though, if that’s not what you meant, then EPL’s boost data (from their dyno plots) for their customers’ RS6 setups is indeed ‘realistic,’ as they are undeniably one of the major B5 tuners, and what you see on their graphs is realistically what you’d get if you bought an RS6 setup from them.

I’m saying to he’ll with all dyno charts or boost plots on dyno’s, the load changes on the street in comparison to the dyno & you can’t play with the load on the street. Yes I’m saying their data, dyno charts are skewed to have the perfect outcome but not the realistic outcome. I haven’t witnessed 1 shop run the car on their dyno the proper way ever (especially when pushing products.)

Old school V8 guys run their cars the proper way once all data is uploaded properly. I say old school meaning the guys or shops who’s been in business far before the internet, internet racing & all the BS it brings.

Boost plot on a dyno definitely works to compare two setups if it’s the same dyno and same tuner, with only the turbos changed.

And like I said, my conclusions about the spool profiles of the various turbos aren’t just based on dyno plots, but real street logs as well as the other stuff I mentioned.

I have yet to be impressed by a single tial build, I dont get involved much because im not sure if it’s a turbo issues, stock manifold issues, tuner issue or what… But none have gone fast as far as I’m concerned. I’d love to see one bust out a 135+ believe me, I just dont see it happening soon. I cant speak for their quality, I was under the impression that they were built pretty well, and that tial usually takes care of any issues. EVERY turbo company has units that fail, PTE, BW, Tial, Garrett, etc… It’s prt of the game when manufacturing products that go through such very extreme conditions such as high rotating speeds and high heat. Shit fails, it happens.

Yeah I don’t think i’ve seen very much on the literally failing tial front…just lots of figurative failure .

Question for those that are much more knowledgable regarding the 2.7TT.

Career wise, I’m an advisor for a large global wealth management firm which is a good indicator my mechanical talent is lacking. Many of you are much brighter in this field then I ever will be and I’m thankful to those that share honest real world feedback based on previous findings or first hand results.

My question regarding the appropriate set-up for tials or any turbo kit surfaced when manifolds and overall efficiency was mentioned. I have the stock intake manifold and my exhaust manifold was port and polished.

I plan on picking up the rs4 intake mani but was curious how a P&P exhaust manifold compares to the various tubular manifolds available. I would imagine efficiency is improved in a tubular style manifold but haven’t heard much in the form of real world feedback.

I’m not trying to make the most power as I’m more concerned with having things as efficient as possible. No meth, not running crazy boost levels, basic 93 & 100 oct fuel. and a set up that works well with the tials. Yes, I would experiment with other tunes as well but there are a few hardware pieces that need to be addressed before additional tuning should occur.

If you upgrade the exhaust manifolds, go with a set of manifolds with a real merge collector (whether tubular or cast versions, like the Wagners), and skip on trying to port the stockers. Some of the welds and things that people smooth out/grind off when porting the stockers are structural (the stock exhaust manis are welded tubular runners inside, with a heat shield over the top to create an air barrier), and some stock manifold runners have even been known to fail/melt at stock or chipped levels, unmodified. In my opinion, I’d either leave them as-is, or if you decide to upgrade them, do it right with quality aftermarket ones.

But then, if you decide to upgrade the exhaust manifolds, you start the thought-process cycle of ‘If I am paying for upgraded exhaust manifolds anyways, then why am I going with an ‘eliminator-type’ turbo?’ If one is replacing the exhaust manis anyways, then why spend a premium on $5500 turbos that were modified to specifically fit and perform on the smaller stock exhaust mani’s? At that point they may as well get a full GT kit done with unmodified GTX turbos for the same price.

But that logic is more applicable to someone who hasn’t already bought all of their hardware. Since you already currently have everything else, I’d just go for quality aftermarket exhaust manifolds if you decide to upgrade that area.

Thanks Jibs!

I plan to upgrade both manifolds though I’m not sure why I didn’t do the exhaust when it was in pieces. I screwed up.

Careful the amdisciples will soon be in to tell you that you don’t need to touch the exhaust manifolds

Still in for pics and details since page fucking one. ::slight_smile:

Me to. While I have yet to see anytihng that impresses me with the tials for the B5 Im not all for making a post on how they fail and not putting up proof if you have it.

no kidding. I for one think the manifolds can use some changing. The merge is helpful but more flow= more power. I know thats a massive over statment but just saying.

Thanks for coming out OP/Pure! Great thread, lots of good content and the pics provided a great visual. Thanks again for your help.

So what happened with your failed tial 605(s)? Warranty credit on new ones?

P.S. Ignorance. It is bliss.

[QUOTE=jasonsowers]605’s dont need a warranty. No case of failures.
[/quote]
Lol

No word yet, though they weren’t actually removed and sent in until last week. I’m not anticipating anything to avoid potential disappointment!

Indeed, ignorance is bliss!

So you had one or two blow? i.e. did one blow then the other blew in compensation? or just one and you caught it?

I guess you have your B7 to drive around so not really a concern/rush. I thought I saw that you were planning to go Tial 770 on AZ…despite the failure of the 605? Tough call I guess. What else can you do. VAST GT? lol. JHM RS6r looks to be an interesting option but we have zero history or reliability data on them.

Who tuned your 605 setup? Hopefully EPL because that appears to be who Tial is most in bed with in this market, and thus they won’t have the option of playing the blame game on the tune causing your tial 605 failure.

Only one turbo failed. I opted for 770’s for two reasons, one you mentioned regarding history and reliability as there are quite a few 770 setups running around.
The other was (maybe my thinking is ass backwards) to stick with the Tial name in hopes they might be more inclined to warranty or provide partial credit by staying with the manufacturer. I felt the likelihood was slim if I decided on the JHM’s or another competitors kit. I certainly wasn’t going to replace 605’s with 605’s, of course they do have their 605.2’s which gives me additional hope regarding a potential credit.

I was also tuned by EPL on a relatively conservative file based on the type of track events I participate in. Hopefully the EPL/Tial relationship will provide additional support regarding my issue.

I upgraded from AWE DP’s to 034 dp’s specific for the 770’s as well as additional fueling hardware to support the new snails.

I would love to experiment with other tuners outside of EPL. CV or Snowtroop come to mind but this will have wait as I’m not ready to venture down that path.

I pretty much hate this car right now. In fact, it feels more like a boat or a money pit. The B7 keeps me sane!