Need help with a wrenching failure

B8 S4
#1

Tried to lubricate my rear sway bar bushings and had a pretty big failure. Backed the car onto ramps and then tried to do the job without dropping the exhaust at all. Required some awkward angles to get the bolts out, but I f’ed up and sheered the top left bolt right off as I took it out. I believe this is because I was using a massive extension and gave it an awkward twist. Anyways, now I’m stuck with 95% of the bolt still threaded into the car, with pretty much nothing exposed. Was too pissed/depressed at that point to take pictures :-\

Here is a pic I took when I installed my exhaust, you can see the upper right bolt holding in the EC sway bar

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7291/12707564713_275f37e7d0_b.jpg

So my options now are to get a shop to do it or try myself. Shop will probably want $2-300, and I have to limp over there, hopefully not doing any damage (should be ok if I drive slowly?). A friend has agreed to help me take a look, and someone else is letting me borrow an electric impact and set of bolt extractors. I’ll probably go and grab a set of reverse threaded drill bits and broken screw extractors. But I don’t want to make it worse by doing something wrong. My buddy is pretty good with a wrench, but it’s always easier to work on someone else’s car ;D Would prefer to not use a torch or any other kind of heating, since that area is exposed to the elements.

Anyone got any advice, would much appreciate it!

#2

Sounds like it was cross threaded when it was installed, snapping a bolt coming out should happen otherwise. Thats going to be a nasty repair unfortunately. best bet is going to be drilling it and using a bolt extractor. Make sure you use a centerpunch for your pilot drill, you want to be as centered as possible, or you will just f things up more.

#3

Probably correct about the cross threading. For some reason, I find it really hard to thread those bolts in. The bracket itself seems to contract and not allow for the bolts to align straight. I couldn’t get the other side back on either, spent a few hours trying ???.

I’ve done this twice before…pretty sure I lowered the exhaust both times. Leaving the exhaust attached to the rear hangers is probably exacerbating my problems.

#4

+1 on the bolt extractor.
Good luck. It’ll be a PITA, but it will come out.
Use a proper extractor rather than a hardened drill bit. It’ll be horrible if your bit gets broken and stuck in there.

#5

Trade it in and get a new one. Problem solved!

#6

Go to hobo freight get there extractor kit. Take one of the good bolts with you and properly size the right extraction bit. This time take off the exhaust and try to take as much load off the bracket. It might also be a good idea to pick up a tap set and just run a clean tap through the threads.

#7

ouch! Use an extractor kit and just forget about lubing those bushings from now on.

Besides racecars are supposed to be noisy. :-\

#8

Lol the noise let’s you know how fast your going.

#9

Only problem is it creaks + clunks while going 3 mph over speed bumps ;D

Thanks for all the tips guys, picked up some tools from the freight and Lowe’s.

Was looking again at the bolts and one of the bolts looks almost stretched…you can see it appears tapered and the thread pitch is a lot larger right near the head. This is pretty much where the other bolt snapped.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7613/16572016557_506234303f_o.jpg

(left) brand new bolt; (middle) not sure if top/bottom from right side; (right) bottom left bracket.

Zoomed in on stretched part

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7625/16159432153_7f9a0defd8_o.jpg

#10

So I guess these are stretch bolts…

With that said, do you guys prefer to replace these in general? Definitely sucks that the bracket needs to be removed to add the grease. Maybe better to try without removing, use some kind of spray grease? I’m using a pasty blue lubricant for use in boats.

#11

I’ve noticed the B8 uses a lot of stretch bolts, more than previous audis

#12

Got a hole started, this pic is slightly skewed, but I believe the bit is going in straight. Problem is it’s off the center axis, so as I step up in bit size, I’m trying to nudge it up. It’s a pretty awkward angle, so have to sort of hope/feel that the bit is walking in the right direction upward. But I can at least look from below to make sure I’m good right to left.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8655/16754407196_d53765ea1d_b.jpg

Gonna take another stab at it again tomorrow night :-\

#13

As long as you step up and keep whats left intact you should be ok. Jobs like this seem so daunting the first time then when you actually do it you say “fuck that wasn’t so bad.”

I am not ashamed to say I have drilled out broken bolts before by just stepping up drill bits until whatever was left fell apart.

#14

First off great picture. I can’t tell you how helpful it is to have a reference picture in cases like this.

A few things.

Replace the bolts. Just get the same size and thread make sure to get a grade 8 strength. Put antisieze on the bolt threads that will be helpful.

On the extractor. On your tap whole for every 5 seconds of drilling add 2 quick squirts of wd40 on the bit and whole while your drilling it will help the drill bore more. After that hit the surface and hole with break cleaner That will help the extractor bit bite harder. Try to keep it on center but don’t worry too much if it comes off center it will just have weird tq distribution.

#15

Id replace all those bolts with some grade 8 hex or socket head bolts. I wonder if you can tap the sway brackets for zerk fittings like the Hocthkis(sp?) sways?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cXeAL0JKDLc/USnkrlLLoiI/AAAAAAAAILQ/9q6sA8U0gRw/s1600/IMAGE_84BCA5EF-B388-4311-979A-5F66377F7165.JPG

#16

Have you thought about calling Eurocode to see what they would charge to overnight a few replacement bolts? You might be able to source them at your local Audi dealer also.

I would also ask Eurucode if it’s okay to drive around with the sway partially disconnected, I would think so as long as you take it easy. I know people used to remove their rear sways entirely on some older m3 models for track work fwiw.

#17

Yea I’ve been there, rarely has a wrenching job been without complication…but sometimes there are the jobs that stick with you for a while, like removing the stock downpipe bolts. Everything would be a lot nicer (and less memorable) if the car was on a lift.

Thanks a lot for the tips Justin, this advice is really helpful and why this site is a great resource.

Thanks for the advice, sounds like replacing the bolts is the better idea. These triple square female bolts are a real PITA, much prefer regular bolts. For those who care, these bolts are M8 with 1.25 mm thread pitch.

Here’s the thing about those grease taps - do you think it will do much to quell the noise? Because isn’t the actual moving surface between the bar and the bushing? So would the bushing also need to be drilled out inline with this zerk fitting? Interesting idea though.

I already grabbed a pair of bolts from the local dealership, was 5 bucks. But given what’s been said, and my observation with the stretch bolt, I’m going to replace these with something better.

Yea, one of the end links could be disconnected, which should be fine for driving to a shop should this job go from bad to worse. Can’t imagine driving the car on the track w/o a sway bar, seems like a pretty important part of the suspension.

#18

Just thought of something…do you guys think it would be possible to thread a nut onto the other side of the bolt, and then use a wrench or really deep socket to drive it all the way to the nut/bracket? I’m pretty sure if I’m driving the nut in, it will create an opposite torque on the threaded bolt itself. Question is whether this will actually rotate the bolt or just ruin the bolt threads (or nut threads).

#19

I’m wondering if by doing that if you’ll just end up stripping the threads (since it would just push instead of rotate the stuck bolt).

#20

On the Hotchkis brackets and bushings, the bushing does have a hole going to the inside and the inner surface is molded with a pathway for the grease to go all the way around the bar. I thought about modifying the brackets and bushings for my Eurocode sways, but ended up swapping them out for a Hotchkis set. The ease of greasing the bushings with zerk fittings beats the hell out of pulling the brackets and buying a new set of bolts every year or less.

If the bolt is sticking out the back, why not use pliers to turn them and unscrew the bolt? Tightening a nut on the back of the bolt will only apply force to pull the bolt, not turn it. It’s the same reason you use a nut to pull and seat studs into a wheel hub.